Predestination or free wiil.

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RDK

Member
Sep 29, 2018
41
9
8
#1
Can anyone here show me where in the Bible is the idea of free wii. Everything about scripture indicates that God knows and plans everything. It makes sense that God plans everything since He knows all.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
18,134
4,524
113
#2
There is a good song, "Whsoever Willo to the Lord May Come." I believe this.

Many confuse the fact that all who are saved are indeed foreknown by God with predestination.

When we come to God for Salvation, He hears us, and we are then foreknown from this age.

When my heart was broken and dI prayed to "You Are Who You Are," He answered me and drew me to Jesus Christ, Yeshua.
Whosoever will to the Lord may come, amen.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
27,119
4,317
113
#3
Can anyone here show me where in the Bible is the idea of free wii. Everything about scripture indicates that God knows and plans everything. It makes sense that God plans everything since He knows all.
Since you appear to have your mind made up, why should anyone freely choose to try and reveal Scriptures that speak of free will to you? Look at it this way...........you were predestined to start this Thread, and it is predestined to end up just as have all the thousands of other Threads like in in the dark regions of the outterweb.

Clearly, you were not predestined to read Scripture for yourself huh?
 

SweetStars

Active member
Oct 6, 2018
110
97
28
30
Arizona
#4
This is just my thoughts, but i believe is Predestination for God, because God knows everything that was and is going to happen, but for us is free will because we are currently living in the present and do not know the future, but being completely honest, i'm not sure if is that clear. I myself do not know this perfectly, so i just leave it as part of the mysteries that will be reveal on God's perfect time.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
13,477
6,140
113
#5
Can anyone here show me where in the Bible is the idea of free will. Everything about scripture indicates that God knows and plans everything. It makes sense that God plans everything since He knows all.
Of course God knows everything, but that is not even the issue.

All of these passages below (and many others) assume and imply that men have free will, and must either choose to obey the Gospel or disobey the Gospel.

And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve... (Joshua 24:15)

And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. (Mark 16:15,16)

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. (John 3:18)

But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? (Rom 10:16)

And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. (Rev 22:17)

Please note the words "will" and "freely". God did not create robots, but mankind in His own image and likeness. Which includes freedom to choose God and Christ, or not.
 

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
#6
Can anyone here show me where in the Bible is the idea of free wii. Everything about scripture indicates that God knows and plans everything. It makes sense that God plans everything since He knows all.
I would imagine that would depend on how "far along" you are, or how much "perfected", or mature in the Spirit you are. That is, IF you are at all!

You see? God has a "way" (if you will), in let's say, "arranging" things, or events in one's life, or along one's "path", that would resemble something like "calling" one! Tis up to the individual, in deciding, or "choosing to believe" that this "calling", is from God!

Should one "will" oneself in remaining free FROM God? Then, you have indeed exercised "free will!"

Yet? Should you "answer" His "call?" Believe it IS from God? Check it out, and allow yourself for God, to "reverse engineer" your heart, soul, mind, and spirit? You may, or may not, come to the conclusion that being with God, is where you were always meant to be!

For you see? It is not God's will, that ANY should perish! But, each individual's will TO choose! Answer the "call?" Or, go along your merry way!

In the final analysis, and ultimate REALITY? God? Doesn't NEED us! WE! "NEED" God!
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,520
2,597
113
#7
This is one of those debates that from the predestination point of view is meaningless. Why? Because God has simply predestined me to believe in free will, so nothing can change that.

The Bible teaches both, free will and predestination. Instead of choosing just one, we must reconcile both.
But you ask: Where is free will taught? For example: When God commands His people to repent, and says "but ye would not" or something similar to that.

It would make no sense for God to ask people to repent, when it is infact His fault they wont repent. All God has to do is give them repentance and faith, as the calvinists believe. Yet God refuses to give people this grace, and continues to ask and command them to repent. This is not logical, nor biblical, and just makes God out to be the same as Pharaoh in these verses:

Exodus 5:16 There is no straw given unto thy servants, and they say to us, Make brick: and, behold, thy servants are beaten; but the fault is in thine own people.

Pharaoh was asking something unreasonable.
 

luigi

Junior Member
Dec 6, 2015
1,050
195
63
#8
Can anyone here show me where in the Bible is the idea of free wii. Everything about scripture indicates that God knows and plans everything. It makes sense that God plans everything since He knows all.
Did not man in the garden choose to disobey the Lord and eat from the tree of knowledge?
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,958
1,523
113
#9
Can anyone here show me where in the Bible is the idea of free wii. Everything about scripture indicates that God knows and plans everything. It makes sense that God plans everything since He knows all.
When God designed the will of man he made it to be subject to the good pleasure of His will "not seen" . He uses food to represent whether a person will believe or not believe. Free will to represent those who do not eat the food that causes slavery to sin.

Mankind rather than doing His will went after the will of a creature "seen". Instant gratification (no faith needed) and died a slow death as corruptible.

Christian as a new creature are given the privilege to do the work of the father" unseen" as free will ….a new will not subject to the father of lies the god of this world . As we draw on power of His word we have in affect eaten of the spiritual food that does come from the meat the disciples at first knew not of.

John 4:33-35 King James Version (KJV) Therefore said the disciples one to another, Hath any man brought him ought to eat? Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.

It is the food of His will that gives us the confidence needed to the end

Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ: Philippians 1:6
 

preston39

Senior Member
Dec 18, 2017
1,675
240
63
#10
Can anyone here show me where in the Bible is the idea of free wii. Everything about scripture indicates that God knows and plans everything. It makes sense that God plans everything since He knows all.
Study Genesis...Adam and Eve choices given by G-d. That is ..free will...to do as they wished.
 

preston39

Senior Member
Dec 18, 2017
1,675
240
63
#11
This is just my thoughts, but i believe is Predestination for God, because God knows everything that was and is going to happen, but for us is free will because we are currently living in the present and do not know the future, but being completely honest, i'm not sure if is that clear. I myself do not know this perfectly, so i just leave it as part of the mysteries that will be reveal on God's perfect time.

G-d can know everything...but, does He choose to know all? Study the book of Job for the answer.
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,958
1,523
113
#12
Study Genesis...Adam and Eve choices given by G-d. That is ..free will...to do as they wished.
They were given a law not subject to change to obey. That will became subject to the slavery of sin by doing the will of another ,the father of lies. I would not call eating the forbidden will as free will but a will in violation to the Creator. God did not design the will of man to do whatsoever they wished upon a star for.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
27,119
4,317
113
#13
This is one of those debates that from the predestination point of view is meaningless. Why? Because God has simply predestined me to believe in free will, so nothing can change that.

The Bible teaches both, free will and predestination. Instead of choosing just one, we must reconcile both.
But you ask: Where is free will taught? For example: When God commands His people to repent, and says "but ye would not" or something similar to that.

It would make no sense for God to ask people to repent, when it is infact His fault they wont repent. All God has to do is give them repentance and faith, as the calvinists believe. Yet God refuses to give people this grace, and continues to ask and command them to repent. This is not logical, nor biblical, and just makes God out to be the same as Pharaoh in these verses:

Exodus 5:16 There is no straw given unto thy servants, and they say to us, Make brick: and, behold, thy servants are beaten; but the fault is in thine own people.

Pharaoh was asking something unreasonable.
The reconciliation is in the Scripture already. The very first part is "Whom God did foreknow...........He did predestine"
They always leave out the foreknowing part because it defeats their ideology...........

God foreknows who will freely choose to love Him, and become one of His, and He predestines that person to be able to do so by equipping them with the power of the Holy Spirit so that they are able to. They STILL have free will. God does not take away free will........EVEN AFTER a person is saved...........
 

preston39

Senior Member
Dec 18, 2017
1,675
240
63
#14
They were given a law not subject to change to obey. That will became subject to the slavery of sin by doing the will of another ,the father of lies. I would not call eating the forbidden will as free will but a will in violation to the Creator. God did not design the will of man to do whatsoever they wished upon a star for.
He installed...free will...so we must choose...right from wrong. Exactly what they did in the garden....wrong.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
5,427
846
113
#15
Can anyone here show me where in the Bible is the idea of free wii. Everything about scripture indicates that God knows and plans everything. It makes sense that God plans everything since He knows all.
I believe the scriptures to teach that God gives mankind a free will to choose how he wants to live his life here on earth, but it is God's choice to choose man's eternal destination. There are several scriptures where God tells us to choose certain things pertaining to our life here on earth.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
5,427
846
113
#16
There is a good song, "Whsoever Willo to the Lord May Come." I believe this.

Many confuse the fact that all who are saved are indeed foreknown by God with predestination.

When we come to God for Salvation, He hears us, and we are then foreknown from this age.

When my heart was broken and dI prayed to "You Are Who You Are," He answered me and drew me to Jesus Christ, Yeshua.
Whosoever will to the Lord may come, amen.
Here is a verse that tells you what God saw by his foreknowledge, and it was not to see us come to him for salvation. Ps 53:2-3, Read and see what he saw by his foreknowledge. The only way that the natural man, described in 1 Cor 2:14, can be given a spiritual life is explained in Eph:2, especially verse 5.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
5,427
846
113
#17
This is just my thoughts, but i believe is Predestination for God, because God knows everything that was and is going to happen, but for us is free will because we are currently living in the present and do not know the future, but being completely honest, i'm not sure if is that clear. I myself do not know this perfectly, so i just leave it as part of the mysteries that will be reveal on God's perfect time.
I believe the scriptures to teach that God gave all mankind a free will in choosing how he wants to live his life here on earth, but man's eternal salvation in by God's choice, without man's help. There are many scriptures where God tells us to choose certain things. the only way the natural man, described in 1 Cor 2:14, can become spiritual (saved eternally) is explained in Eph 2, especially in verse 5.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
5,427
846
113
#18
Of course God knows everything, but that is not even the issue.

All of these passages below (and many others) assume and imply that men have free will, and must either choose to obey the Gospel or disobey the Gospel.

And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve... (Joshua 24:15)
And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. (Mark 16:15,16)

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. (John 3:18)

But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? (Rom 10:16)

And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. (Rev 22:17)

Please note the words "will" and "freely". God did not create robots, but mankind in His own image and likeness. Which includes freedom to choose God and Christ, or not.
I believe the scriptures to teach that God gave man a free will to choose how he wants to live his life here on earth, but it is totally God's choice to save him eternally, without the help of man. If you look up the Greek meaning of save, saved, salvation, it will tell you that it means "a deliverance". We are delivered (saved) many times as we live our lives here on earth. The natural man, as described in (1 Cor 2:14) cannot respond to spiritual things, because he cannot discern spiritual things, such as believing spiritual things, hearing and discerning spiritual things, thirsting after spiritual things. The only way that the natural man can believe in spiritual things is after he has been regenerated, as explained in Eph 2, especially in verse 5.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
5,427
846
113
#19
I would imagine that would depend on how "far along" you are, or how much "perfected", or mature in the Spirit you are. That is, IF you are at all!

You see? God has a "way" (if you will), in let's say, "arranging" things, or events in one's life, or along one's "path", that would resemble something like "calling" one! Tis up to the individual, in deciding, or "choosing to believe" that this "calling", is from God!

Should one "will" oneself in remaining free FROM God? Then, you have indeed exercised "free will!"

Yet? Should you "answer" His "call?" Believe it IS from God? Check it out, and allow yourself for God, to "reverse engineer" your heart, soul, mind, and spirit? You may, or may not, come to the conclusion that being with God, is where you were always meant to be!

For you see? It is not God's will, that ANY should perish! But, each individual's will TO choose! Answer the "call?" Or, go along your merry way!

In the final analysis, and ultimate REALITY? God? Doesn't NEED us! WE! "NEED" God!
I do not think that 1 Cor 2:14 will harmonize with the fact that the natural man, who cannot discern spiritual things, will respond to a spiritual God making a spiritual call. If it is God's will that any of mankind should perish (if you are meaning that by perishing that they go to hell) and if God accomplishes all his will, and does all his pleasure, then why are not all mankind going to heaven?
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
13,477
6,140
113
#20
...without the help of man...
Of course "without the help of man".

But NOT "without the obedience to Gospel". That's your blind spot, since God is not the one who obeys the Gospel.