Not By Works

Then why are you posting as if you do? Maybe you would do better to listen.

What you need is a systematic theology book. It is a large book listing topics and listing every verse that deals with that topic. That way you can read all verses in context and see what the Bible says on that topic.

I suggest you read John 1:1 to 16. It defines Jesus being God incarnate. Mormons believe Jesus is just a man. Use biblegateway.com to look up John 1 and then select different translations. They all say the same thing using somewhat different words.

The Apostles Creed along with the other creeds define what a Christian must believe. Any issue outside of the creeds is agree to disagree.

I see the religionist is still peddling a man made creed over the bible.....the bible defines what we believe, what makes us a disciple, how we are saved, how we are justified, how we are sanctified in Christ positionally, and then in our daily life.....NOT some CREED written by men.......

The
Sorry it was a typo.

Meant to say we must not judge (in terms of whom God will) and press on in love.

Thanks for picking up on that.

Do you know why I think it is wrong to depend on the Creed?

I was raised Lutheran. I said that Creed every Sunday on until I was 29 years old.

I thought I was saved because I said that creed, which I thought made me a real Christian.

At 29 a couple month before my 30 birthday, I attempted suicide three times in a week.

After the Third Attempt, something in side me broke, I think it was the Pride of Life.

I was on my knees weeping like a baby, crying out to the LORD for my whole sinful life style.

I completely surrendered to HIM, as my LORD and MASTER, and I knew I would never take it back.

THAT APOSTLES CREED DID NOT SAVE ME, IT GAVE ME A FALSE SENSE OF SECURITY, and I KNOW IF MY SUICIDE HAD BEEN SUCCESSFUL, THAT CREED WOULD HAVE LEAD ME TO HADES/HELL. BECAUSE WE WERE TAUGHT TO SAY IT FROM MEMORY, AND NOT IN OUR HEARTS.

Wow,

Rom. 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Did your extensive research consider the Word's of God regarding Abraham, Noah, Zechariah, Romans 2, or the Christ's admonishment to the woman accused of adultery? The Christ never sinned, Abraham did, but then repented and followed God's instructions as did Zechariahs in the eyes of God.

Why would your extensive research omit these Biblical facts?

You are ignoring the reason for the creeds created by the early elders!
1. They define what a person must believe to be a Christian.
2. Any issue outside of them is to agree to disagree.
3. Anything contrary to them is heresy.

They are statements of the core doctrine and not meant to save anybody. Salvation comes from grace through faith in Jesus.

You ignore the fact that David was a man after God's own heart. This even though he committed adultery with a close friends wife and had him killed to cover up his adultery. A prophet went to him and pronounced God's judgment against him. The reason for his place with God was he truly repented of his sins. Do you do the same?

Nice try, and a common on this forum. God knew you would use David as an excuse to live in traditions which transgress the commandments of God, that is the reason His punishment was so harsh as it is written.

But you are deflecting from the reason I replied in the first place. I didn't ignore anything.

Isn't it supposed to be the goal of a repentant servant of God to be perfect in God's eyes? Isn't that what the Christ and Paul taught?

"Be perfect even as your father in heaven is perfect"

Ph. 3:
11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you. (As He did for His Servant David)

When you did your extensive research which proved men can never stop sinning, did you consider any of these Word's of God? If perfection isn't the goal, then what is Paul and the Christ talking about?

Hi Endoscopy, The fly in the ointment is, if one person misses the "Gospel Message" because they trusted in, "saying the creed every Sunday Morning", as part of your Church liturgy, instead of believing in their heart and trusting in Jesus for their salvation, then the creed becomes problematic. Creeds are for days of old and should not be used as a supplement for a real relationship with our Savior.

If the "Creed" is not meant to save, leave it out of your Church liturgy that's all....

You ignore what it means to a Christian in that setting. It is a statement about their faith in God. It defines in a short statement their faith in God, Jesus, etc. It comes from the heart.

It was created by the early elders so a person had a memorized short statement about what a Christian must believe. Remember that they were created between 212 and 500. Long before the printing presses. Outside of the church it can start a conversation with a non believer. That would springboard into witnessing to them. Why oh why do you want to ignore the positive uses of the creeds?

I would say that REPENTANCE is a Natural part of genuine Saving Faith. At least that is what happened to me. After my third attempt at suicide, when Saving Faith came to me, I dropped to my knees in my Bedroom, and began weeping and crying like a baby, as wave, after wave of guilt washed over me for my entire Sinful Lifestyle for hours. Until HE gave me a dream or vision being on my knees at the cross, crying up at HIM to forgive me, with my forearms raised to HIM, surrendering my whole life to HIM. I saw the blood drop from each wrist, and I felt the Warmth of His Blood as it landed on my Forearms. I KNEW THEN THAT I WAS FORGIVEN, and HE WOULD GUIDE MY LIFE FROM THAT MOMENT ON.

I am not saying that everyone needs to have that same dream or vision, BUT, I think Repentance goes hand in hand with genuine FAITH. It is the HOLY SPIRIT's job to get us to genuinely, REMORSEFULLY REPENT. It is Not just, "I am sorry Jesus"; it was with me a deep, remorseful repentance.

Acts 20:21 (NKJV)
21 testifying to Jews, and also to Greeks, repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

Psalm 34:18 (NASB)
18 The LORD is near to the brokenhearted And saves those who are crushed in spirit.

Psalm 51:17 (NASB)
17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit; A broken and a contrite heart, O God, You will not despise.

Well, this thread is just like Pringles, I guess... Once you pop you just can't stop...until you get banned or something, I guess.

Anyhow, Jesus was and is the sacrifice for sin and he came to break the chains of sin. That we should no longer live as prisoners to sin. If you feel like you are a prisoner of sin and just cannot overcome, then do you really have faith in Jesus?

Not saying people won't make mistakes after their saved, but they also won't just continue being held captive by sin, either. They will continue to repent and have faith in the Blood of Jesus to make us overcomers from sin.

What??????

Oh yeah, no need to try and please Constantine, or whoever else made a bunch of creeds....They are not the final authority on scripture, that would God and his Word...just saying.

As for King David...yeah, he was a man after God's own heart and he sinned. I've heard people say that he didn't repent of it, but I don't know what they were reading to get that. It might not spell it out word for word, but David was heartbroken. And yeah, God forgave him, but he didn't just wink at him either. David was chastised and heart broken...If you don't believe me, then just read Psalms.

Funny how people downplay sin into the "Mistake" category.......SIN is SIN....there are no mistakes when it comes to sin.

No, you are IGNORING the TRUTH, IT LED ME TO A FALSE SENSE OF SECURITY.

After I was Born Again, I was HUNGRY for the Word of GOD, beyond my wildest dream. I could get those TRUTHS from the WORD OF GOD, directly. That substituted Apostles Creed, for the WORD, prior to being BORN AGAIN, made me think I did not NEED to read the BIBLE. How many Others has the Apostles Creed, led them to believe they were saved, when they have NOT BEEN BORN AGAIN?
How many are ON the Broad Road to Destruction in Hades, because they recite the Apostles Creed every Sunday?


Matthew 7:13-23 (NASB)
13 "Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.
14 "For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.
15 "Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.
16 "You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they?
17 "So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit.
18 "A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit.
19 "Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
20 "So then, you will know them by their fruits.
21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
22 "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'
23 "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you [BORN AGAIN]; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'


John 3:3-7 (NASB)
3 Jesus answered and said to him,
"Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God."
4 Nicodemus *said to Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born, can he?"
5 Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 "Do not be amazed that I said to you, 'You must be born again.'


RECITING the APOSTLES CREED every Sunday does not SAVE YOU.

Being BORN AGAIN DOES. Coming to HIM with a Broken, Contrite Heart over your UTTER SINFULNESS, and RECEIVING JESUS CHRIST as LORD, meaning MASTER, out of PURE LOVE FOR HIM. That is same moment the Holy Spirit comes into your HEART to birth your HUMAN SPIRIT to ETERNAL LIFE, and HE pours the LOVE OF GOD directly into your HEART, and HE immerses you into the Spiritual Body of Christ. THEN YOU ARE SAVED.

And you want to substitute the Apostles Creed, for TRUE SALVATION ? ? ?