Not By Works

What is so awesome about it?
None of it is true....

I'm waiting for the post he is referring to to be shown to us all.

hey. its all true buddy.

And i didnt refer to any post by anyone in particular?

I am a simple man, too simple to go through 4000 pages, but i guarantee that if you were to go back, you owuld be able to find someone who said what i mentioned.

I've heard it a thousand times in my life already. This is common knowledge.

I'll quote my homie Deontay Wilder: "Whats clearly understood dont need to be explained"

Again, you just contradicted yourself.

You cant claim we are not saved by works, then say works keep us saved, you are contradicting yourself.

Either way, paul claims those who say we begin in the spirit (eph 2) and yet we must perfect or keep it by works, we are foolish.

Stop yelling at people who are against working for salvation, and start understanding why paul called you foolish

Get to it.

That salvation is by grace through faith and is not by works (neither obtained or maintained by works) is not hard to understand. It's just hard for works-salvationists to ACCEPT.

Believers produce works BECAUSE they are saved and not in order to become saved or maintain their salvation status, which is through faith (rightly understood) IN CHRIST ALONE.

We could never do enough work to maintain our salvation. That is type 2 works salvation. We could choose not to work at times, but never work at all demonstrates a lack of faith. All genuine believers are fruitful, but not all are equally fruitful.

Now you sound like a lawyer.

Positional, descriptive, prescriptive

Click to expand...

They have meaning in regards to rightly dividing the word of truth.

God did not use the man made word "Trinity" in the Bible, yet the word "Trinity" accurately describes the Godhead. There is one God in essence/nature that eternally exist in three distinct persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

How do deeds cause us to "keep" our salvation? Does Christ need to "add" our deeds to His finished work of redemption in order to help Him save us? NO. Christ's finished work of redemption is sufficient and complete to save believers. No supplements needed. (Romans 3:24-28) From beginning "have been saved through faith" (Ephesians 2:8) to end "receiving the end of your faith--the salvation of your souls" (1 Peter 1:9) salvation is by grace through faith and is NOT BY WORKS. If someone claims to have faith, yet produces NO works at all, then they demonstrate that they have a dead faith and not authentic faith, so there was nothing to keep or maintain. You are really hung up on type 2 works salvation.

In John 5:28-29, the good deeds of the redeemed (those who have done good) are not the basis of their salvation but the evidence of it. A person's conduct, whether good or evil, reveals the condition of his heart.

Doing good flows inescapably from a heart that is saved and doing evil flows equally inescapably from a heart that is unsaved, as I already explained to you in Romans 2:6-10. *Now notice that ALL who come forth unto the resurrection of life (believers - vs. 24) are described as those who have done good and ALL that come forth unto the resurrection of damnation (unbelievers) are described as those who have done evil.

What did Jesus say in John 3:18? - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already..

Are believers described as "those who have done good" or those who have done evil?"

Are unbelievers described as those "who have done evil" or "those who have done good?"

In John 5:24, we read - "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life." This is Jesus speaking...NOT ME.

He said things "like"

not an exact quote

the ridiculous argument of
"if eternal security is true it means you can sin all you want"
comes from the same place


as if a child of God wants sin....


no
we are given a new heart which wants righteousness

and we have a loving God to chasten us as our Father
encourage us
work in us


Hev is standing against strange and empty arguments, and implying it MAY say something about those that use them....not making an accusation which requires a list

(which would be easy to make using google and "christianchat" followed by words that make an argument "like" the one he suggested)


another weak dishonest argument is calling Gods grace and the truth of eternal security a license to sin

when we reap what we sow
and God chastens His children...


it's like saying a son who is told to clean his room... and does not clean his room... and then is spanked and scolded... has a license to have a dirty room just because the Father doesnt toss him in fire and keeps His promises to keep His son no matter what

Please post the verses where Paul said that we must not perfect what is started in the spirit by works.

The problem is that you don't understand what works salvation is.
We are NOT saved by works.
You can't seem to get away from this....

I've never said such things.
I don't really care what others say, unless they speak of salvation issues.

I have read, however, how some of the "no works" statements and also the OSAS statements can bring to the conclusion that nothing is expected of us....including obedience, which everyone here seems to be trying to convince me is not necessary, when, in fact, it is.

1 corinthians 15:58
1 John 3:21-22

Gal 3: 2 This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh? 4 Have you suffered so [c]many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain?

Made perfect by the flesh means by our own deeds.

No thats not my problem, the problem is you say we are not, then say we are, you contradict yourself

Works salvation is a salvation which is earned or maintained by our works. Which is what you teach and i proved it.

Notice that your first paragraph says "by works of THE LAW".
The spirit is NOT received by works of the Law.

Perhaps you could learn the difference between WORKS OF THE LAW
and WORKS OF OBEDIENCE.

Titus 3:1

Romans 6:16

Works do not save us...
but they DO maintain our salvation.

Be not hearers of the Word
But DOERS of the Word.
James 1:22


Hebrews 5:9
And being made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey him,

You might be correct, so this not a debate on my part. I was taught the 7 churches represented dispensations. And whether that is true or not, the 7 churches mentioned do align perfectly to the overall mental state of society, not just the church itself.

I will only speak of the last 2 briefly. And yes, it could be just a coincidence. The 6th church listed was called Philadelphius. This term has always meant from then to now (brotherly love). The city of Philadelphia (football = Eagles, basketball = 76ers, baseball = Phillies) is called the City of Brotherly Love. So we know this name means Brotherly Love. Look at the 1960's to right before the year 2,000. This period was know to the secular world as PEACE, HARMONY, LOVE, BROTHERLY LOVE. Kind of interesting how for a period of almost 40 years the entire WORLD (believers and non believers) classified the era we lived in as such.

Ironically, the transition going from 1999 to the year 2,000 began with another world and church theme (Y2K). And interestingly enough, after this passed, so did the idea of helping one another, loving one another, peace, harmony. Science became the vocal point of the world and intelligence. Since 2,000, more police brutality has happened in the past 18+ years then ALL of the 20th Century itself. No one helps anyone any more. And I mentioned this already in my previous post including churches have allowed homosexuals to be preachers - teachers and so forth. We clearly are in a point of time where we are in limbo (neither hot or cold). We fit Laodecia like God meant for this to happen.

But if we went back into history and used the 7 churches as dispensations, they do ALL LINE up specifically to what was happening in the world at that moment and what was happening in the church at that moment.

To me, it's been a great barometer to go by!!

Those who are truly born of God have received a new nature (2 Corinthians 5:17), a divine nature (2 Peter 1:4), and now have new appetites and desires. They have made the transformation from pigs and dogs into sheep. The change is more than just cosmetic, as in 2 Peter 2:20. *These cleaned up on the outside dogs and pigs were never sheep.

Compare 2 Peter 1:4 - "partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption - Strongs #5356 that is in the world through lust with 2 Peter 2:20 - with they escaped the pollutions - Strongs #3356 (different Greek word) of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, yet they are again entangled therein, and overcome.

*Notice that 2 Peter 2:20 did not mention them being "partakers of the divine nature."

Corruption (Strongs #5356)
Strong's Concordance
phthora: destruction, corruption
Original Word: φθορά, ᾶς, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: phthora
Phonetic Spelling: (fthor-ah')
Definition: destruction, corruption
Usage: corruption, destruction, decay, rottenness, decomposition.
HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 5356 phthorá (from 5351 /phtheírō) – destruction from internal corruption (deterioration, decay); "rottenness, perishableness, corruption, decay, decomposition" (Souter). - https://biblehub.com/greek/5356.htm

Pollutions/Defilements (Strongs #3393) ("pollutions", "filthy things", "contaminations", "world's filth") describes the state of being tainted or stained by evil and refers to impurity, impure, tainted, defilement, foulness or pollution.
Strong's Concordance
miasma: a stain, defilement
Original Word: μίασμα, ατος, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: miasma
Phonetic Spelling: (mee'-as-mah)
Definition: a stain, defilement
Usage: pollution, defilement; a stain.
HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 3393 míasma(from 3392 /miaínō) – pollution (spiritual stain) that results from vice, i.e. spiritually contaminating a person (used only in 2 Pet 2:20). - https://biblehub.com/greek/3393.htm

Pollutions/Defilement refers to what is on the outside (2 Peter 2:20). But genuine believers have escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust (2 Peter 1:4). Corruption is deeper than pollutions/defilements on the outside: it is decay on the inside.

Having the knowledge of Jesus Christ does not save a person if there is no heart submission to that knowledge. The latter end is worse than the beginning for these men because rejecting this knowledge will make them more accountable at the judgment.

Works of the flesh

Perhas you need to determin what constitutes a work.

So in Hebrews 5:9, who obeys Him? The saved or the lost? I've heard many works salvationists use this verse to try and support salvation by works, including Roman Catholics, Mormons, SDA's and Campbellites.

*Only believers have obeyed Him by choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 1:16) in order to become saved, and only believers obey Him after they have been saved through faith and "keep" Greek word "tereo" (guard, observe, watch over) His commandments and practice righteousness and not sin (1 John 2:3; 3:9,10). *In either sense, only believers obey Him.

*Unbelievers have not obeyed Him by refusing to believe the gospel (Romans 10:16) and "without faith its impossible to please God" (Hebrews 11:6), so unbelievers do not obey Him no matter how much "so called" obedience that they attempt to conjure up through the flesh in a vain effort to obtain salvation based on their works. *So in either sense, unbelievers do not obey Him.

Salvation "maintained" by works = "type 2 works salvation."

In other words;

Being saved TO observe the law 'is equal' to observing the law TO be saved.

Trying to get someone to understand they are shooting themselves in the foot. You think this would be an easy task?

I do believe our work is cut out for us! (pun intended)

Hi...I just want to ask you a question...What happens to a person (am being extreme here } who has had an accident , can never ever walk again , cannot talk but understands everything that is said to them...
They can only communicate through blinking , but they have received Christ after hearing the word , yet they can never work for our LORD , does that mean they are saved but also not really saved because they have produced no works ? , or are they saved because they have believed on our LORD Jesus Christ , confessed by blinking ? ...xox...

Works maintain eternal life. ETERNAL life ceases if you stop working or sin too much.

ETERNAL life.

What does the term ETERNAL mean? Lasts for a decade?