Not only are we not under the law, we should not try to abide by it.

I don't know about that philosophy. Where in the Bible does it say that everything should come automatically? The way I've read the Bible it seems like remaining in Christ comes from making an effort to obey him.

Gal 5:1
It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.

Jesus makes it very clear that we must obey him to go to heaven.

Whoa - don't get ahead of yourself. Christ set the Jews free from obeying the 613 laws. He didn't set us free from obeying his commandments. Jesus makes it very clear that we must obey him to go to heaven.

And I think this makes something clear - obeying Jesus is just like obeying the 613 mitzvot. We have to make a conscious decision to obey Jesus. We have to consciously decide to walk in love, repentance and good works.

Jesus said,
"When you obey my commandments, you remain in my love, just as I obey my Father’s commandments and remain in his love."

He didn't say, "when you remain in my love, you obey my commandments". He said it the other way around. When we obey his commandments, we remain in his love.

And just blindly thinking that we automatically do Jesus' commandments just because we believe in him is a bit presumptuous, considering our soul is at stake.

I think this is where things become unclear. It's true that remaining in Christ causes one to walk in the Spirit and produce good fruit. But how do you remain in Christ, just by accepting Christ into your heart? I think that John 15 gives us some of the answer:

5 “Yes, I am the vine; you are the branches. Those who remain in me, and I in them, will produce much fruit. For apart from me you can do nothing. 6 Anyone who does not remain in me is thrown away like a useless branch and withers. Such branches are gathered into a pile to be burned.

9 “I have loved you even as the Father has loved me. Remain in my love. 10 When you obey my commandments, you remain in my love, just as I obey my Father’s commandments and remain in his love."

So perhaps what it means to remain in Christ is for us to obey his commandments. This is my entire point about our obligation to follow Christ's commandments.

I don't know about that philosophy. Where in the Bible does it say that everything should come automatically? The way I've read the Bible it seems like remaining in Christ comes from making an effort to obey him.

...knowing that, as he grows in age, the beard will come effortlessly.

Hey! Adam...
Do you really not keep the Law? Does that mean I should expect you to lie? Because the Law commands us not to bear false witness. How about murder or adultery? Where is the line between not abiding by the Law and sin in the New Covenant? To answer my own question, the Spirit uses our devotion time in the scripture to fulfill the New Covenant promise by putting the Lord's Laws and Commandments into our hearts and minds. So that our conscience becomes a tool of the Holy Spirit as he transforms us into the image of Christ, who kept the letter of the Law perfectly by keeping the Spirit of the Law perfectly. So that he not only didn't kill, but by not hating his brethren, he wasn't being a murderer and by not lusting, he wasn't committing adultery in his heart: the standard given to us to use to measure what is sin under the New Covenant, which comes without the curse of death for disobedience since Jesus was made to bear that curse for us.
Do I keep the Law? I strive to go past the letter of the law and obey the Spirit of the Law by not only not committing adultery, but by not lusting either. The letter of the Law says not to kill, but the Spirit of the Law, which is what the Holy Spirit is putting into my heart and mind so that hating my brother becomes the same as murder to me. My righteousness and justification has been imputed to me by my faith in Jesus, I strive for obedience because I love the Lord and desire to walk in the Spirit just as he desires for me to do.
PTL! : )

You are still righteous if you follow the law to the best of your ability. It doesn't save you on its own, but you are more righteous.

Also, we are expected to keep the 10 Commandments at a bare minimum. The proof is essentially in this verse:

“But cowards, unbelievers, the corrupt, murderers, fornicators, those who practice witchcraft, idol worshipers, and all liars—their fate is in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.” - Revelation 21:8

I say "required" because technically there's a gray area.

I'll say this again like I've said it before. Righteousness doesn't come by the law because righteousness only lies in following the whole law and it is impossible to do the whole law.

You are still righteous if you follow the law to the best of your ability. It doesn't save you on its own, but you are more righteous.

I think this is where things become unclear. It's true that remaining in Christ causes one to walk in the Spirit and produce good fruit. But how do you remain in Christ, just by accepting Christ into your heart? I think that John 15 gives us some of the answer:

5 “Yes, I am the vine; you are the branches. Those who remain in me, and I in them, will produce much fruit. For apart from me you can do nothing. 6 Anyone who does not remain in me is thrown away like a useless branch and withers. Such branches are gathered into a pile to be burned.

9 “I have loved you even as the Father has loved me. Remain in my love. 10 When you obey my commandments, you remain in my love, just as I obey my Father’s commandments and remain in his love."

So perhaps what it means to remain in Christ is for us to obey his commandments. This is my entire point about our obligation to follow Christ's commandments.

i think it's a mistake to say the Torah = Christ's commandments.
i think it's also a mistake to take the decalogue out of the Law and say it is somehow separate, or to arbitrarily divide the Law into 2 or 3 groups and say these sections are 'Christ's commands' and these aren't.

Christ Himself gave specific commands. i think the most rational understanding of what Jesus means when He says "My commands" is the commands He Himself literally gave.

Breaking the law over and over doesn't make you more righteous. The law only shows that you CAN'T keep it.

Read Matthew 5. Its abundantly obvious.

Romans 4:4-8
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.


Would you rather work for your own Righteousness or have God Impute His Righteousness to you?

You can't have both. You can't have Gods Imputed Righteousness plus your dirty rags. You either get your dirty rags or Gods Imputed Righteousness.

You are free to work for your own Righteousness. Just don't be under the delusion that it will make you "more" righteous than what God Imputes to us.

Galatians 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Not only are we not under the law, we should not try to abide by it

if Christ's righteousness is ascribed to us by faith, and His righteousness is infinite in perfection, how in the world can anyone who has had His righteousness imputed to Him become more righteous than infinity?

i seek to do what is right in my life in the same way that when i buy a pair of shoes i look for one that fits.
no shoe makes my feet more perfect, but a shoe that's too big gives me blisters and a shoe that's too small gives me cramps. both impair my ability to walk. it's not about improving my feet; it's about preventing impediments to what is, without any shoe at all, already a completely adequate appendage.

Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

That seems pretty obvious.

It doesn't allude to "extra" righteousness that comes from the law.

It really alludes to NO righteousness available through the Law and therefore Christ and His Death and Resurrection for Us.

this is exactly what Rasputin believed and practiced. there was not any detestable act he was unwilling to try. up until the day he died he really believed he was a Christian.