Does God want us to choose between law and grace?

Where does that leave people who say Jesus was a man and a prophet like Moses and nothing more?

Being a Jewish Christian I too have a heart for Israel. But not so much because it's my heritage but because of what the Messiah has shown me in the scriptures. I believe when the veil is lifted we see the Messiah for who he is. And what he showed me is that when he says he is offering his sons blood for the sins of the world, it includes Israel. The gospel message is not at the cost of the Jewish people, they are actually the 'goal' of the gospel of restoration.

Non-believing Jews are just as much ignorant of God's will as we all were at some point in time. Yet, they are still fully able to receive what was promised to them from the beginning. As long as there is air to breath. It is God's will that all of them should come to Jesus, as much the same as for those in the nations. I also believe we have a huge example of how much God loves and waits for Israel to become his own again.

The God of Israel loved the world so much that he gave his only son as an offering and a banner, so that all who believe in him may be saved. How does this effect Israel? God offers all things to and through Israel, first. He gave Israel the Word, scattered her to the four winds of heaven, then sent the Spirit into the world, that as they themselves come to God they should bring back all the children of Israel with them. As an offering.

God is glorified in the restoration of Israel, as a nation and a people. It's at the heart of his Word, and the actual goal of Jesus message. The restoration of the gentiles leads to the restoration of Israel. Both united as one in the Kingdom to come.

ALL Israel is not replaced, she is not forsaken, she will be restored as new. I do not believe many in the church have properly understood the message of salvation when they preach a message of being forsaken and replaced by a spiritual people to the physical children of Israel. They act as if the Spirit is not going to do the same thing to and for the Jewish peole as he does for those in the nations.

The message to non-believing Jews shouldn't 'leave all you know and become a Christian'. If God meets you where you're at, why won't he do the same for the Jewish people? I was never moved by the turn or burn message. Well, maybe moved the opposite direction. But in the end, a negative message will always precipitate a negative response.

As I mentioned earlier, we have a huge example of love and mercy in the form of a sacrifice. His arms went out to all, met all where they were, said come to me in the most loving manner possible. Even at his own cost. His example is ours, as His Spirit is ours. I see many say they claim to walk as he did, even point out all the ways he walked, yet never seem to be able to mirror his image. Sadly, the very way they make their claims negates the image of the Holy One. One should never lord over another in anything. Especially when it comes to the children of Israel. Sadly, many who claim to be Christian mock the very people God says he loves most. And they act like Israel mocking Joseph. And we know how that story ends...

The plain reading of the text is different for the people with the vail in place versus those who have had the vail removed.

Vail not gone = work at the law

Vail gone = rest in Christ

Being a Jewish Christian I too have a heart for Israel. But not so much because it's my heritage but because of what the Messiah has shown me in the scriptures. I believe when the veil is lifted we see the Messiah for who he is. And what he showed me is that when he says he is offering his sons blood for the sins of the world, it includes Israel. The gospel message is not at the cost of the Jewish people, they are actually the 'goal' of the gospel of restoration.

Non-believing Jews are just as much ignorant of God's will as we all were at some point in time. Yet, they are still fully able to receive what was promised to them from the beginning. As long as there is air to breath. It is God's will that all of them should come to Jesus, as much the same as for those in the nations. I also believe we have a huge example of how much God loves and waits for Israel to become his own again.

The God of Israel loved the world so much that he gave his only son as an offering and a banner, so that all who believe in him may be saved. How does this effect Israel? God offers all things to and through Israel, first. He gave Israel the Word, scattered her to the four winds of heaven, then sent the Spirit into the world, that as they themselves come to God they should bring back all the children of Israel with them. As an offering.

God is glorified in the restoration of Israel, as a nation and a people. It's at the heart of his Word, and the actual goal of Jesus message. The restoration of the gentiles leads to the restoration of Israel. Both united as one in the Kingdom to come.

ALL Israel is not replaced, she is not forsaken, she will be restored as new. I do not believe many in the church have properly understood the message of salvation when they preach a message of being forsaken and replaced by a spiritual people to the physical children of Israel. They act as if the Spirit is not going to do the same thing to and for the Jewish peole as he does for those in the nations.

The message to non-believing Jews shouldn't 'leave all you know and become a Christian'. If God meets you where you're at, why won't he do the same for the Jewish people? I was never moved by the turn or burn message. Well, maybe moved the opposite direction. But in the end, a negative message will always precipitate a negative response.

As I mentioned earlier, we have a huge example of love and mercy in the form of a sacrifice. His arms went out to all, met all where they were, said come to me in the most loving manner possible. Even at his own cost. His example is ours, as His Spirit is ours. I see many say they claim to walk as he did, even point out all the ways he walked, yet never seem to be able to mirror his image. Sadly, the very way they make their claims negates the image of the Holy One. One should never lord over another in anything. Especially when it comes to the children of Israel. Sadly, many who claim to be Christian mock the very people God says he loves most. And they act like Israel mocking Joseph. And we know how that story ends...

We agree in that the text remains, it's the reading that is different for the people.

But, as long as one pits the law against the work at the cross one will continue to misconstrue the message. The law is not against the promises. Simply put, salvation does not come through the law. But through Christ who is revealed (unveiled) through the Spirit. The promises all come through the Messiah, as foretold and patterned through the law and the prophets.

Do you believe Jesus represented the law who was nailed to the cross? I know I don't see it that way, I see the curses of the law being hung and cast away. But even if you see Jesus as the law nailed to the cross, was he resurrected? Do you see him as taking the law down to hell in his death and returning to life without any representation of it? Or can you not see how he took the ministration of the old covenant down to death and resurrected it to newness of life in the new covenant? The law is not the focal point of what was removed, the sins of the law were. And yes, if the sins are removed there is no law against us. ONLY IF the you remain united with the Spirit. Otherwise the very same law which still exists will condemn us all. So it was the sins that were removed by the Spirit who in turn removes our veils allowing us to see clearly the message of Messiah. Not because he acts like a magic spy glass but because he lives and dwells within you on a daily basis. Leading and keeping us all till the day of our redemption to eternal life.

Speak love not hate, speak kindness not rejection, speak to them words of restoration instead of destruction. And watch the difference!

Of course those who practice Judaism don't want to hear it. Of course they don't want to convert to another religion.

I believe this is because Jesus didn't come to start another religion. And to teach so does an injustice to both non-believing Jews and Jesus himself. It's counter to the gospel message.

Which would have worked better to engage you? Pointing out every statement of replacement theology as if to say you are not really speaking God's word so you obviously are not filled with the Spirit, the veil remains? Or to simply point to the positive affirmations given by Jesus and throughout the bible that speak otherwise, and doing so in a way that conveys I see you as my equal, despite our differences?

They are God's people Grandpa. As much as all your non-believing friends and relatives. If God judged you by the same measure you would have no chance. Praise God for being our example of mercy and love. When we focus on him we realize the love he has for others, and love covers a multitude of sins.

I believe we are called to preach a message of restoration. So instead of saying to them 'we are going to have to tare your house down and rebuild a new one', I think we should be saying to them ' we are going to lead you to the One you knew from the beginning and he will give you all you need now and in the future'.

Grandpa, I think you understand much, but miss out on much as well. Isn't that the way of life though? Should I turn on you for your perceived faults, or turn to help you in any way possible? Which one would you reach for? A smack-down, or a hand-up? Truth is truth, yes. But love is ……..

I don't speak hate, although the tearing down of strongholds that people love that stand in the way of the One True God could possibly be seen as hate.

I know that the law is a MAJOR stumbling point for those who practice Judaism. I don't see any way around it but by the Truth.

They may be gods people, but as paul said, they are enemies of the gospel in their present state.

I believe this is because Jesus didn't come to start another religion. And to teach so does an injustice to both non-believing Jews and Jesus himself. It's counter to the gospel message.

Which would have worked better to engage you? Pointing out every statement of replacement theology as if to say you are not really speaking God's word so you obviously are not filled with the Spirit, the veil remains? Or to simply point to the positive affirmations given by Jesus and throughout the bible that speak otherwise, and doing so in a way that conveys I see you as my equal, despite our differences?

They are God's people Grandpa. As much as all your non-believing friends and relatives. If God judged you by the same measure you would have no chance. Praise God for being our example of mercy and love. When we focus on him we realize the love he has for others, and love covers a multitude of sins.

I believe we are called to preach a message of restoration. So instead of saying to them 'we are going to have to tare your house down and rebuild a new one', I think we should be saying to them ' we are going to lead you to the One you knew from the beginning and he will give you all you need now and in the future'.

Grandpa, I think you understand much, but miss out on much as well. Isn't that the way of life though? Should I turn on you for your perceived faults, or turn to help you in any way possible? Which one would you reach for? A smack-down, or a hand-up? Truth is truth, yes. But love is ……..

And he didn't point that out so they should be treated as such, he pointed out that their position caused the ability for the gentiles to attain their own position. Besides, aren't we to love our enemies as ourselves?

Yes. if it's not done by the power of the Spirit within you it does.

Tough love huh? Have you not learned that the way you judge others is the way you will be judged? And what that really means?

Those who follow Judaism=not blessed people of God
Those who follow Christianity=blessed people of God

This is your judgement. Please show me where God made such a judgement? Though it reminds me of Paul's teaching about the branches being broke off and grafted in, and about mocking the others who were broken off (Romans 11). Are you sure you want to hold to this type of judgement?

How can people who practice Judaism come to Christ when He is an offense to them?

Is it better to water down the Truth of the gospel to try to trick them into some sort of faux-judeo-Christianity??

Or is it better to just show the Full Truth?

Like the difference between pulling the band-aid off really slowly or just tearing it away in one quick swoop.

Yes. I think you understand much as well, but miss out on much too. Which is the whole reason why I was showing you what I was showing you.

How can people who practice Judaism come to Christ when He is an offense to them?

Is it better to water down the Truth of the gospel to try to trick them into some sort of faux-judeo-Christianity??

Or is it better to just show the Full Truth?

Like the difference between pulling the band-aid off really slowly or just tearing it away in one quick swoop.


Their house is already torn down. Unfortunately, for them and the silly people who think they are doing them favors by not telling them, they can't see it.

Do we help them to see or do we play to their vanity and blindness?


I will tell you that the Lord Jesus Christ didn't help me by playing to my vanity and blindness. He Helped me by showing me the Truth.

Matthew 23:37-39
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

But since you asked for it...

Christ is the ONLY one that can redeem them/us from this curse.

There is only One Way to be a blessed person of God. And that is through the Lord Jesus Christ.

Simply put, how did you?

Not your job to do the tearing though, it's the Spirit's. And the truth is the truth no matter what. One doesn't need to force it or 'hang on this is gonna hurt'. One only has to lead them to the same relationship they themselves have with the Spirit. This is why we are the example. We don't go 'hang on this will hurt'...there's the Truth!!' We show others our relationship with the Holy One of Israel, so causing others to want that type of relationship themselves. Our walk with God through the Spirit Jesus has given us is the only Truth we need. Others need it too, just as much.

Jews will not entertain Christians who talk about truth all day long yet forsake their very existence as Jews. Believe me. However, if you can get a Jew to enter into a real-time relationship with God through the Spirit by coming to faith in Jesus. Then you will have succeeded in the work of God. Because the work of God is to reconcile all to himself. And reconciliation can not occur when guilt is being presented. This is why first Jesus had to come and take away the guilt, the sin. Then all could come to a relationship with God through the Spirit Jesus offered. For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

John 3:17-18
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

This is mocking btw. Not offended Grandpa, just disappointed that we can't get past this type of communication.

Please show me where God made such a judgement?