Does God want us to choose between law and grace?

[Absolutely]

No offense but I am very right.

Joh 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

As I was saying, Jesus is the way to eternal life, which is in Christ, which happens to be in the kingdom of God. One cannot get in the kingdom of God without receiving the gospel of Jesus Christ for themselves, PERSONALLY.
Salvation is like healing. Until you receive the word of truth or promise of God and act on said word/promise for yourself, personally, then it most likely wont manifest in the natural.
To him that has, [that which he has received personally and acted upon] shall be given [to] him.
And so it is with salvation, until you receive the gospel concerning salvation personally, and act upon said word of truth or promise of God, then nothing has happened, and the person will remain unsaved.
One cannot merely believe Jesus is the savior of the world and go to heaven. They have to receive said savior for themselves personally, while acting upon the word of God, before they actually receive Jesus in their heart for eternal life and enter into the kingdom of God.
Faith without corresponding action to that which one receives, is dead.

Pretty sure we agree.

Yes he comes in personally like He did with Paul,my self,and He does with millions of people.
It is called born again,saved,new birth.

I take it you are for that

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yeah so. What about the other apostles?
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

If you don't keep the gospel of salvation until the end of your life, then you too will have believed in vain.
Understand, truths of God's word are like the laws of physics.
They don't change with time.
Even as a law is the same law both before Christ shows up and after His ascension , so is a truth the same both before and after Christ's ascension.
1+1=2 both before the new testament and after, and so it is with other truths written in the old testament. They didn't stop being a truth once the new testament came into existence.

Psa 119:89 LAMED. For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven.
Psa 119:90 Thy faithfulness is unto all generations: thou hast established the earth, and it abideth.

Believed in vein,

Mere belief belief without power, a belief that was dead, going theough to motions, but not rooted in christ.

It does not mean working to earn a gift you could never earn to begin with as you are trying to say!

 

[Jimbone]

What you don't get is that we are not law keepers. We are saved by grace, period. Now as far as works go, you do what you think is right and I will do the same. Don't try to tell me where my salvation lies. We all study the same word but we react differently.

Amen brother. Very well put.

(way, way late, but still)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Do we choose between law and Grace? Yes, No, Yes, No, maybe.
Take the law away and we don't need any grace
Take the Grace away and we are condemned by the law as sinners.

The reason we need a saviour today is because there is still a law today.

True, why it is said the law will never fade, as long as people who are in need of being led tomgrace, the law will have a purpose

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

What makes you think this means the law of moses?

 

[mailmandan]

Believed in vein,

Mere belief belief without power, a belief that was dead, going theough to motions, but not rooted in christ.

It does not mean working to earn a gift you could never earn to begin with as you are trying to say!

Amen! To believe in vain is to believe without cause or without effect, to no purpose. If, as some are saying in Corinth, there is no resurrection, then faith is vain and worthless (vs. 14). The people who fail to hold fast to the word (the gospel) that Paul preached in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, demonstrate that they "believed in vain" (did not truly believe).

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. (Heb 10:16-17 KJV)

This is the New Covenant of Grace that even now people are rejecting, preferring instead salvation by works which is impossible to obtain.

Amen, god can not say he will remember sin no more, if the law of moses, which was given to prove our sins, are in the for front.

 

[Absolutely]

Do we choose between law and Grace? Yes, No, Yes, No, maybe.
Take the law away and we don't need any grace
Take the Grace away and we are condemned by the law as sinners.

The reason we need a saviour today is because there is still a law today.

Yep it is pretty much a no brainer.

There is always going to be those that preach additives to salvation.
There is always going to be those that live a nominal,loosey goosey carnal christian life devoid of holines that overdo the "i am just a sinner saved by grace" .

We all thank God for grace,or at least should.
Ordinances are part of our walk,not salvation.
I believe you understand that,i am just clarifying a couple of things.
I enjoyed your posts.

 

[Absolutely]

Amen! To believe in vain is to believe without cause or without effect, to no purpose. If, as some are saying in Corinth, there is no resurrection, then faith is vain and worthless (vs. 14). The people who fail to hold fast to the word (the gospel) that Paul preached in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, demonstrate that they "believed in vain" (did not truly believe).

Yep. True dat.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

By Faith alone we are saved.
But please consider the whole picture.
1. We are sinners because there is a law which points out sin.
2. we need salvation from sin (not the law) and Jesus paid the price, so we can be saved by grace.

The penalty of the law is to be cursed, as paul and moses both said, cursed is anyone what does not confirm and obey ever word. And james said if we keep all the law but fall in one point we are guilty.

We are saved from the penalty of sin, if we are just saved from sin, the oenalty still stands.

3. Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

We establish the law because the law has been fulfilled in us, the tutor did its job, and we have been led to christ,

4. we keep the law not to be saved (Jesus already did that), but because we love Jesus and the law is love.

You cant keep the law, by saying you can you mock gods law. Moses and James and Paul all said if you fail in one point your guilty, so it is impossible to keep the law

What you do is because you love God, you love others, and in doing this, by nature and gods power you walk in a righteous way, the law is incapable of helping uou do this, that was not its purpose

5. We have faith in Jesus and His grace to save us from sin, (yesterday, today, and tomorrow).

His grace saved us from the penalty of sin, a completed action

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
1Jn_5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
2Jn_1:6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

If we are free from the penalty of murder (no jail time), should we murder? No
We are free from the penalty of the law, but we should aim to keep it because Jesus did. Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Amen, but how do we do this? It is not by following the law of moses, but the law of love.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Amen! To believe in vain is to believe without cause or without effect, to no purpose. If, as some are saying in Corinth, there is no resurrection, then faith is vain and worthless (vs. 14). The people who fail to hold fast to the word (the gospel) that Paul preached in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, demonstrate that they "believed in vain" (did not truly believe).

Amen, many believe, it does not mean they entrusted their eternity to Christ.

 

[Absolutely]

This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. (Heb 10:16-17 KJV)

This is the New Covenant of Grace that even now people are rejecting, preferring instead salvation by works which is impossible to obtain.

I rarely see anyone preach salvation of /by works.

I see saved folks doing works. Nothing wrong with it.
Motive plays a role,but who is perfect?

 

[Absolutely]

Too much to read, however, I was pleased the writer stated Rom7:14-24 referred to Saul the Pharisee and not Paul the Christian, spot on there!

No,paul is saying he CAN POSSIBLY walk in either.
One is a trap,leading to deadness,the other,walking in the spirit,is life.

The epistles were written by men baptised in the HS ,to men baptised in the HS.

They are spiritual writings not deciphered mentally.

 

[Absolutely]

You don't really chose grace but rather God choses to grant you grace. Without the law there would be no knowledge of sin and salvation would not be possible. It would be best to simply trust in the Lord for your salvation and rather on focusing on obeying the law (10 Commandments) focus instead on being a humble servant to the Lord. The same is true for works as well. It states in the bible that faith without works is a dead faith. Any works faithfully performed are a manifestation of the salvation that comes from contritely confessing your failure to live your life in a way pleasing to the Lord by acts of sin and omission, trusting in the shed blood of Jesus dying on the cross for the remission of sin, and allowing the Holy Spirit to comfort and guide in the life-long process of repentance. Grace is an unmerited favor from a God that loves us.

The law is the old rulebook.
Under the old rulebook they had niether Jesus personally walking and talking With them,nor the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
God/Jesus did not come to TEACH men HOW to be holy.
He came to MAKE men holy.

What is hidden to some degree is the Holy Spirit is the HOLY Spirit. (HOLY)
Holy =absence of sin....
We become Holy. Made Holy.

How unbecoming sin becomes of or vessel that is made Holy.

So,sin,not only defiles,but the defilement caused a unbearable weight upon a made holy believer.

When we see a christian carrying around unconfessed sin,we see a very tormented individual.

Practicing sin can not be tolerated by the Holy Spirit.

That component is the heart of the issue,not trying to figure out all dimensions of whether the law is in force.
Once is see it clearly,i am free from misconceptions.
I can be like David and love his law while being made Holy by the Holy Spirit and Jesus shed blood.
But even more! Because under the n t. and the baptism of the Holy Ghost I have the POWER to walk in holiness.

The power to walk holy.
The law giver is bigger than stone tablets

 

[Grandpa]

The law is the old rulebook.
Under the old rulebook they had niether Jesus personally walking and talking With them,nor the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
God/Jesus did not come to TEACH men HOW to be holy.
He came to MAKE men holy.

What is hidden to some degree is the Holy Spirit is the HOLY Spirit. (HOLY)
Holy =absence of sin....
We become Holy. Made Holy.

How unbecoming sin becomes of or vessel that is made Holy.

So,sin,not only defiles,but the defilement caused a unbearable weight upon a made holy believer.

When we see a christian carrying around unconfessed sin,we see a very tormented individual.

Practicing sin can not be tolerated by the Holy Spirit.

That component is the heart of the issue,not trying to figure out all dimensions of whether the law is in force.
Once is see it clearly,i am free from misconceptions.
I can be like David and love his law while being made Holy by the Holy Spirit and Jesus shed blood.
But even more! Because under the n t. and the baptism of the Holy Ghost I have the POWER to walk in holiness.

The power to walk holy.
The law giver is bigger than stone tablets

However...

If we look to the Law to "check" to see how Holy we are we find we always come up just a little short.

So we KNOW that we must always abide in Christ and never think we can do the work of holiness on our own.


I know you didn't imply NOT abiding in Christ but it seemed to be left out of your post.

Maybe you just figured its common sense. As you should.

 

[Grandpa]

I will never understand why people want us to follow the thing which brings death, and claim this is a good thing,

Jesus said he wants us to focus on, and love others, that is our mission as the function of the body, you can not do that if you are focused on the law continually to see how good you are doing!

not to mention, if they truly understood the law, they would realise that the law would continually proved how bad they were doing. And continually focusing on it would either take alot of work continuously trying, (failure to enter gods rest) or cause them the be overwhelmed with trying the impossible and knowledge they can’t do it, causing many to stop trying and leave altogether.

Or worse yet to become arrogant and proud like the pharisee, and ignore the fact the law condemns them by watering down the law, and out of anger judge people they consider grave sinners (murder rape porn) so they do not have to look at their own sin, and get mad at those who preach grace who tell them their work is like bloody rags and are worthless, like Jesus told the jewish religious leaders..and like we have attempted to explain to them here

1 Timothy 1:7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.

2 Corinthians 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.

Its not us who lifts their vail. No matter how obvious it is to us it can't be seen by those who are blind.

I don't understand how some people say that the Lord Jesus Christ takes away the penalty of the law so it is still a requirement to work at it but its ok to fail. The Lord Jesus has said NOT ONE Jot or Tittle... I'm pretty sure the penalty of the law would be at least one jot or one tittle.

Logic doesn't work either... lol

 

[WalkingTree]

Its not us who lifts their vail. No matter how obvious it is to us it can't be seen by those who are blind.

Yet if one is to be honest with that text you would do well to note that it's not the old testament which is done away with but the veil when the OT is read. This would be the plain reading of the text.

So if being blind is equal to having a veil over one's heart when reading the OT, when Messiah removes the veil you can read the OT and fully see and understand that it all speaks about Jesus.

The veil was hiding the revelation of Messiah throughout the old testament. That veil is removed for those who place faith in him and are born of the Spirit.

Veil gone=old testament points to Messiah. Veil not gone=can't see nor understand how it points and leads to Jesus.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

1 Timothy 1:7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.

2 Corinthians 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.

Its not us who lifts their vail. No matter how obvious it is to us it can't be seen by those who are blind.

I don't understand how some people say that the Lord Jesus Christ takes away the penalty of the law so it is still a requirement to work at it but its ok to fail. The Lord Jesus has said NOT ONE Jot or Tittle... I'm pretty sure the penalty of the law would be at least one jot or one tittle.

Logic doesn't work either... lol

Amen, people think thye know the law. But in reality, they do not know it at all

 

[PS]

Yet if one is to be honest with that text you would do well to note that it's not the old testament which is done away with but the veil when the OT is read. This would be the plain reading of the text.

So if being blind is equal to having a veil over one's heart when reading the OT, when Messiah removes the veil you can read the OT and fully see and understand that it all speaks about Jesus.

The veil was hiding the revelation of Messiah throughout the old testament. That veil is removed for those who place faith in him and are born of the Spirit.

Veil gone=old testament points to Messiah. Veil not gone=can't see nor understand how it points and leads to Jesus.

Where does that leave people who say Jesus was a man and a prophet like Moses and nothing more?

Added: this is the burden I have for the Jewish nation.

 

[Grandpa]

Yet if one is to be honest with that text you would do well to note that it's not the old testament which is done away with but the veil when the OT is read. This would be the plain reading of the text.

So if being blind is equal to having a veil over one's heart when reading the OT, when Messiah removes the veil you can read the OT and fully see and understand that it all speaks about Jesus.

The veil was hiding the revelation of Messiah throughout the old testament. That veil is removed for those who place faith in him and are born of the Spirit.

Veil gone=old testament points to Messiah. Veil not gone=can't see nor understand how it points and leads to Jesus.

The plain reading of the text is different for the people with the vail in place versus those who have had the vail removed.

Vail not gone = work at the law

Vail gone = rest in Christ