Not By Works

Void of any fruit what so ever?

uhhh even an increase in faith is fruit He works in us through the Holy spirit

God is not deceived... not everyone who calls Him Lord actually believe
that is why He never knew them

even if these people believe to have fruit and point to their works as proof...

NO, what you did is move the goalposts from new believer not bearing fruit for years to how often or how much. That is called moving the goalposts. Well played.

but we aren't saved temporarily based on the number or rate of fruit produced through us....

we are saved eternally
by grace through faith

born again

then He encourages us
blesses us
leads us

or... if as His children we do not conform

chastens us

and if we are His

we endure
we are faithful till the end to Him

we are not of those who fall back into perdition (though we may appear to be for a season as in luke 15 and be perceived as dead)

those who go out from us
were not of us
or no doubt would have continued with us


He will in no wise cast out one of His own

no man can pluck us from His hand (including us)

and He will not forsake his own

If you don't want to answer the question, just let me know, goalpost mover.

To be honest with you all I do is explain what many on this site is saying, things like, after being saved you can't go to hell even if you wanted to!!

I cannot tell you the number of people that I have explained their pastor believes that if they ever backslid and go back 2 their sinful lifestyle of fornication, drunkenness Etc and died while in that backslid condition, that they would still go to heaven. 99 percent say to me "no I don't believe that"

When I said to Dcon in an earlier post that he did not get that dumb on his own he had to have help here's what I meant:

I have found that most people who believed OSAS are
people who have been taught this stuff. But you take people who has never been to church saved maybe in a prison service who only has there Bible and prayer to grow in God, I've never found one that comes to the conclusion of unconditional eternal security

To be quite honest with you I hope you guys are right, I really do because I have a cousin who died like a fool in a backslidden condition. At one time he serve God Faithfully, could play any instrument in the church and sing like a professional. He died in adultery in the arms of his girlfriend not his wife and children if you guys are right he's in heaven today. But as much as I want you to be right when I read scripture i can't help but see the danger of this false security Doctrine

the answer is this- since Jesus did not give an exact amount of fruit one is to bear, and how often ( most fruit trees do not bear fruit year round), then neither should we.

and this is another reason I correctly call you a legalist .

a non- legalist would say " a believer is supposed to bear fruit".


the legalist ( you ) come in and say " that's not good enough! how much? how often? what kind? "

like you are doing here.

after you yourself completely contradicted yourself with your own words.

When Jesus paid for all sins with His blood, did that blood also cover your cousin's adultery?

Hi brother...
Beautiful Scriptures spoken by our Lord , to those who are IN Christ Jesus...xox...

if i may?

Satans main goal in life is to get us to mistrust god.

What a better way to get us to doubt god than to get us to question our salvation, or gods faithfulness,

He wants to devour us, the best weapon satan has is to get us to doubt we have eternal life, and because we sin, we are at danger of losing salvation.

His takes our focus off god, and loving others, and puts our focus on self, and trying to live up to some standard, instead of realising there is on standard, and we have failed to meet it, are failing and will fail, so instead of judging ourselves when we fail and being tore down, we focus on God, his love go to the thron of grace because he has not given us a spirit of fear, and continue to focus on loving others,

The bible says if we deny him he will deny us, peter denied him three times, how did jesus restor him? By three times telling him to go and feed his people. Even thouh peter could not admit he agape’d jesus, jesus still said, i forgive you, go do what i made you to do, and look at the power of forgiveness that enbaled peter to be the man of gd he was. Instead of being torn b guilt and shame.

As john said, it is the knowldge we HAVE eternal life that empowers us to continue to trust god, satan wants to take that faith away and destroy it, how? By doubting our eternal life, and getting us to believe we have conditional life.

1.

john 6
27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?

29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

_______

2.

Ezekiel 36:26
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

1 Samuel 16:7
7 But the Lord said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the Lord seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the Lord looketh on the heart.

___________

3.

1 peter 1

3.Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

_________

4.

1 john 3

2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

philippians 3

9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith

romans 4

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.





1. saved by grace through faith

2. being made new and given new desires to conform to Him (and He that began a good work in us will continue to the day of Christ)


3. He promises eternal security to His own....



4. It is the imputed righteousness of Jesus that saves us... He gets the glory....




This thread was made to give God the glory....


seems a lot of folk just can't accept God for who He is....

amen sister...


what a lovely Father we have to not only save us and adopt us as His own while we do not deserve it

but then continue to love us even through our mistakes


so much so to do whats best for us always wether it is tough love
silence or a gentle hand

in order we can help others who He loves and learn how to love as He does....


He is..... "unbelievable"😏
(pun intended... lol I not only believe Him but am learning more and more of Him and loving every second of it...)

I'm sorry professor I didn't realize you was looking for intellectual stimulation with the questions you choose to answer.

I've been called an idiot before, and maybe I am...... But I am smart enough to know you did not answer my question. I'm going to ask it again and I'm typing real slooooooow

Do you think your adversary the devil believes the doctrine of OSAS?

Hey.

I understand your concern. But may I say, coming from a background of CONDITIONAL security, the people I saw in those "circles" were ALSO involved in adultery, just like your cousin!

So just because someone believes you can lose your salvation DOES NOT guarantee obedience! I have seen many in that "camp" fall into all kinds of sins.

It doesn't really matter if you believe OSAS, Not-OSAS, perseverance of the saints, mormonism, santa claus, you will find people in that camp fall into all kinds of sins. This i have noticed!

Your little rant does not impress me. Your excuse for Gal5:19-21 is nonsensical
sinners do those things it is their livelihood, believers can not live in thise sins anymore,

Paul is writing to believers, and warning them of behaviour that would bar them from the kingdom of Heaven, as anyone with little discernment would know, apparantly, you, in yourv effort to stay with your false beliefs refuse to see what a child could see.
1John3:9 was responded to.
Lets make it easy for you, as you find it hard to grasp much. A person claims to have become a Christian, they are a drunk, habitual thief, and a constant blasphemer, God will accept them there and then on the basis of a righteousness of faith in Christ, but if no change subsequently takes place in them, they were never born of God in the first place(1John3:9) for they have just continued on in the sins they had before they claim to have become a Christian. Even if you cannot understand that I am confident others can. Faith without works is dead faith. 1John3:9 explained
Gal5:19-21 refers to a different scenario
People make a commitment to Christ, they receive the good news with joy. It is wonderful for them to have a saviour from sin, and they have had to do nothing to earn or deserve their salvation. But they made a shallow commitment, they did not count the cost of what following Jesus is(Luke ch14) Some change takes place in them(unlike the previous scenario), but when hardships or trials come along, their initial enthusiasm starts to wane, for they did not count the cost of discipleship. They can start drifting back into bad habits. And Paul, who obviously knew some in the Thesasalonian church could be as described warned them of the consequences of behaviour that would bar them from the kingdom of Heaven. Two different scenarios concerning 1John3:9&Gal5:19-21 But as you are having to go to ridiculous lengths to try and justify your errant beliefs continued discussion here is pointless.
BTW
There is a very good reason you cannot relate Mark3?:28 to Gal5:19-21. Lets play Bible Trivia, you are obviously excluded because you are adamant they can be linked. So the first person to give me the answer as to why they cannot be linked gets a thumbs up

My first reaction is scream, "CAN'T YOU SEE YOU ARE DEPENDING ON YOU TO KEEP YOURSELF SAVED!!!"

It's been so long now since the revelation that JESUS ALONE saved, keeps me saved, and will continue to keep me saved, that I sometimes forget that I had your mindset. Using my human intellect to deduce that we HAD to DO SOMETHING to remain saved. How can we remain saved if we keep on sinning? Surely there will come a point where God says ENOUGH!! You are no longer saved!
So there begins this endless cycle of sinning feeling awful about it, promising to never do it again, ... only to find yourself DOING IT AGAIN! Then the enemy wallops you with a feeling of CONDEMNATION. So now we're constantly focusing on sin, and NOT sinning, instead of keeping our eyes on JESUS!
Who will free me from this body of death!!

Jesus does!

NOW, once we are saved we are born again, with a NEW heart, a NEW creation, with us IN Christ and Christ IN us. If we stray He will draw us back. If we sin He will discipline us. If we keep sinning, the discipline get's harsher. Why would He do that? Why would He just not care and let us leave and "live any way we want"?

BECAUSE WE ARE HIS KIDS!!!!

The question should NEVER be "can you lose your Salvation".

The questionS SHOULD be, are you born again, and if so, what are you doing with this great gift?

Please don't send your new Church down this "yeah, Jesus saves us, but WE have to DO X to remain saved" road.

It's very destructive,

Thank you NoName, as most people here understand that because of my cancer treatments I am limited but not "void of works" as you rightly describe in your post. As a matter of fact my Pastor agreed that praying is something that I can do that will build up the body of Christ which we both agreed was true.

The offering of the widow's mite, and as you point out that many will say; "Lord Lord, have we not done many things.", should let us know you cannot always judge a persons eternal salvation by their works. When the Apostle Paul was defending his Apostolic Authority he said to the Church, "You are judging by appearances."2Cor10:7.
Make "righteous judgment," and not by appearances, or stop being a "fruit inspector" and let God be the righteous judge.

John 7:24
Stop judging by mere appearances, but instead judge correctly."

The parable of the wheat and the tares tells us that God will sort out the real from the fake

Matthew 13:30 the parable of the weeds
Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn

2 Corinthians 10:7
You are judging by appearances. If anyone is confident that they belong to Christ, they should consider again that we belong to Christ just as much as they do

Mark 12:42
But a poor widow came and 'put in two very small copper coins', worth only a few cents

Matthew 7:22
Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not' prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?

Think you had better go back and read the comment again you responded to

Hmmmm....seems we are being targeted by some trolls again.

You think it's your commitment to Christ that saves you?

I love your bible verse, in my view, one of the most under stressed verses in the whole bible. Could you explain why sin shall not be your master for you are not under law but under grace