Not By Works

Are you serious???

Take away the blood of Christ and how many of us would be saved? None of us because all have sinned and come short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23) and the wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. (Romans 6:23)

The right kind of faith trusts in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. There are people who have faith that Jesus exists and that his death, burial and resurrection “happened” yet are not trusting in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation and instead are trusting in their works for salvation.

Mere “mental assent” belief in Christ joined with trust and reliance in works for salvation is not the right kind of faith.

Are you serious?????

Which covers the moral aspect of the law as well. (Matthew 22:37-40) Works in general.

Roman Catholics try to make a distinction between works of the law and good works, then teach we are saved by “these” works (good works) and just not “those” works (works of the law) which is a bogus argument.

There has been many attempts by kind and loving Christians on this thread who have made attempts at flushing out the impostors, some were caught and re-banned and some were not.

Fran has been put on report numerous times but there is not enough evidence to prove her deception -- who can prove that you changed your IP address and returned under a fictitious name, but of course you must understand this simple process.

There's been a lot of pretending going on of late on this thread, if they will lie about their identity, "the basics of who they truly are", how can anyone believe a single word that they speak. And to me the scary part is that if people can see that Fran can fool everybody here it gives a green light to other deceivers.

I'm in agreement with Eternally-Grateful, why waste any of your time by answering their post's, just leave them alone and they will "fade away"

good bye...

Yes UnderGrace, "Following-His-Steps is serious", so much so that producers have made a series of movies called "Transformers" based on the imagination of his thoughts, of course what I am saying makes no sense whatsoever...

DON'T CROSS THAT BRIDGE OF WHAT WE SHALL BE IN THE FUTURE, UNTIL THE RAPTURE.


1 John 3:2 (NJB)
2 My dear friends, we are already God's children, but what we shall be in the future has not yet been revealed. We are well aware that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he really is.

Great Picture

Bravo!!

...For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast. Ephesians 2:8-9

Above are the verses the OSAS camp uses to prove their FALSE MAN MADE DOCTRINE that disregards and even nullifies OBEDIENCE TO GOD by saying that it has no bearing in SALVATION....which only proves that they do not LOVE God and since they do not LOVE God it only means that they HATE God and are His enemies.

...And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love. 2 John 1:6

...salvation from our ENEMIES and from the hand of all who HATE us— Luke 1:71

...But those ENEMIES of mine who did not want me to be KING OVER THEM—bring them here and KILL THEM in front of me.’” Luke 19:27

...If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the ENEMIES OF GOD. Hebrews 10:26-27

Did Paul believe or say the same things as these people venture to teach and speak about?

...I have written you quite boldly on some points, as if to remind you of them again, because of the grace God gave me to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles with the priestly duty of proclaiming the gospel of God, so that the Gentiles might become an offering acceptable to God, sanctified by the Holy Spirit. Therefore I glory in Christ Jesus in my service to God. I WILL NOT VENTURE TO SPEAK OF ANYTHING except what Christ has accomplished through me in LEADING THE GENTILES TO OBEY GOD by what I have SAID AND DONE—
Romans 15:15-18

Did the apostles teach what Jesus told them to teach?

..."TEACHING THEM TO OBEY WHATEVER I HAVE COMMANDED YOU"...Matthew 28:18-20

..."IF YOU WANT TO ENTER LIFE, OBEY THE COMMANDMENTS"...Matthew 19:16-30

"IF YOU LOVE ME, YOU WILL OBEY WHAT I COMMAND"...John 14:15

"WHY DO YOU CALL ME "LORD, LORD", AND DO NOT DO WHAT I SAY?" Luke 6:46

"DO NOT MERELY LISTEN TO THE WORD, AND SO DECEIVE YOURSELVES. DO WHAT IT SAYS." James 1:22

...who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, FOR OBEDIENCE TO JESUS CHRIST and sprinkling by his blood...1 Peter 1:2

...their teachings are but rules taught by men.’...Mark 7:6-13

...For it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ NOT ONLY TO BELIEVE ON HIM, but also to SUFFER FOR HIM, Philippians 1:29

...Although he was a son, he learned OBEDIENCE from what he SUFFERED and, once made perfect, he became the source of ETERNAL SALVATION for all who OBEY him...Hebrews 5:8-9

...LET NO ONE DECEIVE YOU with empty words, for because of such things GOD'S WRATH COMES ON THOSE WHO ARE DISOBEDIENT. Therefore do not be partners with them. Ephesians 5:6-7

Rom 14:11　 For it is written, "As certainly as I live, declares the Lord, every knee will bow to me, and every tongue will praise God."


no one else.

Isa 45:23　 I have sworn by myself; the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow; every tongue shall swear.

Isa 45:24　 And unto me he shall say, Surely in the LORD is the righteousness and the strength; until he shall come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed.


1Jn 3:2　 Beloved, now we are the sons of God, and it is not yet made manifest what we shall be; but we know that if he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

Amen Stone, you captured my idea exactly

Others seem to think they can make themselves into some kind of "replica" and stand right beside Jesus worthy of the same adulation.

Well @VCO and @stonesoffire have responded .....what say you??

I be waiting......

I will also be waiting to find out why you twisted what I wrote???

I wrote this....

I guess instead of falling at His feet you prefer to stand up right beside Him!!!

and you changed it to this

and if you and Mr. IFollowToBePerfect understood we are transformed into His image meant , you would understand that we do not become little Jesus, or little divine beings.

When speaking about "image" "likeness" the idea is we mirror His beauty, not us becoming Him.

We are the mirrors, and in us men see the beauty of the Lord.

Capisci???

No I think Paul spoke quite a bit about immortality, and how a person receives Eternal Life. He says to trust in Christ alone through faith provided by God.

ARE YOU SERIOUS, that YOU think we are becoming DEITY?

ARE YOU MORMON?

You even posted what I said.
You don't understand it !
Incredible.

Wow. I have no words.
Here's what I capisco.
You don't seem to capire the written word very well, as demonstrated by your comments....
So - since you malintendi everything I say...there's only one solution...
to refrain from speaking to you. And not because I don't want to, but because it's impossible.
I don't deny that this is not the best form of communication.
But we could at the least make an honest effort....

Stone,,,this does not deserve a reply, but for those reading along....
Do you think I don't know the N.T.?
The question was: AGAIN:
Do you believe God wants us at His feet or does He wish us to imitate His Son?
The other member had turned it into a choice....

It's no use being at God's feet UNLESS we also do what He desires...which is to be like His Son....

And for those that think this is becoming a deity.....some English and Theological study would do them good, some hermeneutics wouldn't hurt either.

There's even an atonement theory that speaks to the this.
I'll post it again....for those who care to know: You really should read it...apparently you haven't and I've posted it 2X before this...

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#1 The Moral Influence Theory
One of the earliest theories for the atonement is the Moral Influence theory, which simply taught that Jesus Christ came and died in order to bring about a positive change to humanity. This moral change comes through the teachings of Jesus alongside His example and actions. The most notable name here is that of Augustine from the 4th century, whose influence has almost single-handedly had the greatest impact upon Western Christianity. He affirmed the Moral Influence theory as the main theory of the Atonement (alongside the Ransom theory as well).

Within this theory the death of Christ is understood as a catalyst to reform society, inspiring men and women to follow His example and live good moral lives of love. In this theory the Holy Spirit comes to help Christians produce this moral change. Logically, in this theory the Eschatological development too becomes about morality, where it is taught that after death the human race will be judged by their conduct in life. This in turn creates a strong emphasis on free will as the human response to follow Jesus’ example. Although Augustine himself differs here in that he did not teach free will, but instead that human beings are incapable of change themselves, and require God to radically alter their lives sovereignly through the Holy Spirit.

This theory focuses on not just the death of Jesus Christ, but on His entire life. This sees the saving work of Jesus not only in the event of the crucifixion, but also in all the words He has spoken, and the example He has set. In this theory the cross is merely a ramification of the moral life of Jesus. He is crucified as a martyr due to the radical nature of His moral example. In this way the Moral Influence theory emphasizes Jesus Christ as our teacher, our example, our founder and leader, and ultimately, as a result, our first martyr.

Of course your first paragraph is correct.
I mean, really, is this theology 101?

Paul said this in 1 Corinthians 15:17
17and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins

There could be persons as described in your second paragraph....I'm not going to judge anyone's soul.
They might be saved more than some that claim to be Christian but do not feel obeying God is necessary.


Mathew 21:28-32
Parable of Two Sons Jesus said:

28“But what do you think? A man had two sons, and he came to the first and said, ‘Son, go work today in the vineyard.’
29“And he answered, ‘I will not’; but afterward he regretted it and went.
30“The man came to the second and said the same thing; and he answered, ‘I will, sir’; but he did not go.
31“Which of the two did the will of his father?” They said, “The first.” Jesus said to them, “Truly I say to you that the tax collectors and prostitutes will get into the kingdom of God before you.
32“For John came to you in the way of righteousness and you did not believe him; but the tax collectors and prostitutes did believe him; and you, seeing this, did not even feel remorse afterward so as to believe him.


I leave judgement to God.


I also give you John 5:28-29 Jesus said:
28“Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
29and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deedsto a resurrection of judgment.


As to your third paragraph....if there is mental assent of Jesus and one "works" to be saved....
to my understanding this is different than trying to work for salvation in some obscure way.
IOW, they may have some theology wrong,,,but if they're doing it for God .... I don't see the problem.
OTOH, if someone does not acknowledge any belief in Christ, but are trying to work their way to heaven...THIS is self-righteous works.

I know persons that believe they're going to heaven because they go to church on Sunday.
And I know persons that know no theology but love God and work work work. I say they're better than I am....they don't count the cost.

Luke 14:25-34 Jesus said:
27“Whoever does not carry his own cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple.
28“For which one of you, when he wants to build a tower, does not first sit down and calculate the cost to see if he has enough to complete it?

This has nothing to do with Catholicism....forget about it!

Are you saying the N.T. speaks against works in general and not only works of the Law?

Mathew 22:37-40 covers ALL the commandments.
If you love God and your neighbor and yourself,,,,which commandment would you purposefully want to break?

The N.T. does speak to good works and good deeds which ARE NOT works of the Law.
This is an important aspect to understand or the teachings of Jesus have little meaning.

Here are some verses regarding good works AFTER we're saved:

How does a person speak against what the N.T. teaches?? The following are written
to BELIEVERS:

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Galatians 6:9
And let us not grow weary of doing good, for in due season we will reap, if we do not give up.

Colossians 3:17
And whatever you do, in word or deed, do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.

James 4:17
So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin.

James 2:26
For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.

Hebrews 10:24
And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works,

Matthew 7:21-23
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

Titus 2:7-9
Show yourself in all respects to be a model of good works, and in your teaching show integrity, dignity, and sound speech that cannot be condemned, so that an opponent may be put to shame, having nothing evil to say about us. Slaves are to be submissive to their own masters in everything; they are to be well-pleasing, not argumentative,

Philippians 2:13
For it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.


Galatians 5:19-26
Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. ...


James 1:27
Religion that is pure and undefiled before God, the Father, is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world.

2 Timothy 3:17
That the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.

Matthew 5:16
In the same way, let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven.

Titus 3:14
And let our people learn to devote themselves to good works, so as to help cases of urgent need, and not be unfruitful.

Colossians 3:23
Whatever you do, work heartily, as for the Lord and not for men,

Micah 6:8
He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the Lord require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

Ephesians 2:8-10
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

Matthew 6:1
“Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven.


3 John 1:11
Beloved, do not imitate evil but imitate good. Whoever does good is from God; whoever does evil has not seen God.

James 2:14-17
What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

1 Timothy 6:18
They are to do good, to be rich in good works, to be generous and ready to share,

James 2:24
You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.


Hebrews 13:16
Do not neglect to do good and to share what you have, for such sacrifices are pleasing to God.

This is almost blasphemous.
Making fun of one of the top teachings of Jesus and the N.T.....
being transformed to be like the Son.

The N.T. calls us BRETHREN. We are all brothers in Christ
And Jesus is the FIRST BORN ....
We become children of God and brothers of Jesus...
Mathew 12:50

God's purpose is to make us like His Son so that we could become members of His Kingdom on earth and be members of a redeemed mankind.

Romans 8:29 God predestined us to be like His Son.
29For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;