Retire the Ten Commandments?

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Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#301
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
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#301
Sketch said:
Stop beating around the bush and back-pedaling.
You made the claim that covenants are THE way God communicates with us.
Are you ready to revise that claim or not? God has replaced the old covenant.
Thus indicating a change. Agree or disagree?

John 10:27
My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.
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I just try to post what scripture says, it isn't me making any personal claim. I truly think that covenants are a way God communicates with us, and God is God, so anything God does is not limited to "the" way.

One of the posters has taken after me personally and uses me to attack, I have to leave the site.
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
#302
#302
Blik said:
In your mind perhaps I am making a "mishmash" but I don't think God cancelled anything with the new covenant.
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oh my

it's as plain as day that God most definitely has cancelled the covenant He made with the Israelites!

if it is not cancelled, than, as written in Galatians, Christ died for nothing!

15 We ourselves are Jews by birth and not Gentile sinners; 16 yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.

17 But if, in our endeavor to be justified in Christ, we too were found to be sinners, is Christ then a servant of sin? Certainly not! 18 For if I rebuild what I tore down, I prove myself to be a transgressor. 19 For through the law I died to the law, so that I might live to God. 20 I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

21 I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose. Galatians 2

as plain as day.

a person CANCELS OUT (nullifies) the grace of God...provision for forgiveness of our sins...if ANY righteousness is sought in keeping the law in any way, shape or form.

THEREFORE, the Old Covenant is OVER and those who attempt to pacify the wrath of God through keeping any portion of it, make NULL in their own lives what God has provided as the final sacrifice for our sins

further, the blood of animals could never actually wash away sin.

may God have mercy on those who believe that any endeavor they enact provides a better salvation then the one we already have provided by God Himself!

think of the insult to God such actions create :(
 
PS

PS

Senior Member
#303
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
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#303
Blik said:
I spent a lifetime, until retirement, in the NT only, the old was a mystery to me. I found someone who spent eight years in the Far East studying and then wrote a momentary of the OT, he had studied with scholars who worked with the dead sea scrolls as well as others. By studying with him putting scripture and ancient history together I found that I had been misled by my church over and over. There are set holy ways of God and it is consistent throughout scripture. There is no change whatsoever in any of God's ways throughout scripture. What Christ told us when Christ commented on the law is how the law always was. Faithful Jews work hard at following God, but it isn't for salvation they work, it is in appreciation to God. There was grace at creation, only Lucifer decided his work was as good as the Lord. You can study the Torah and never touch the NT and you would have a NT understanding, except you wouldn't know why blood was necessary for salvation, you wouldn't know you were a temple, and you wouldn't understand the wonders of what a high priest could be as you only had a pale copy.
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God's law has not changed. In fact it is stricter now, for those who are under the law, than it ever was. Compare this with the Ten Commandments and you will find it is a lot harder.

50 Commands of Christ - Summary List
1. Repent—Matthew 4:17, Luke 13:3
2. Let not your heart be troubled—John 14:27, John 16:33, Matthew 6:25-26, Philippians 4:6-7
3. Follow me—Matthew 4:19
4. Rejoice—Matthew 5:12, (Also 2 Corinthians 6:10, 12:10, James 1:2-4)
5. Let your light shine—Matthew 5:16
6. Honor God’s law—Matthew 5:17-19
7. Be reconciled—Matthew 5:24-25
8. Do not commit adultery—Matthew 5:27-30
9. Keep your word—Matthew 5:33-37
10. Go the second mile—Matthew 5:38-42
11. Love your enemies—Matthew 5:44
12. Be perfect—Matthew 5:48
13. Practice secret disciplines (giving, praying, fasting)—Matthew 6:1-18
14. Lay up treasures in heaven—Matthew 6:19-21
15. Seek first the kingdom of God—Matthew 6:33
16. Judge not—Matthew 7:1-2
17. Do not throw your pearls to pigs—Matthew 7:6
18. Ask, seek, and knock—Matthew 7:7-8
19. Do unto others—Matthew 7:12
20. Choose the narrow way—Matthew 7:13-14
21. Beware of false prophets—Matthew 7:15
22. Pray for those who spread the word—Matthew 9:37-38
23. Be as shrewd as serpents—Matthew 10:16. (Also Romans 16:19)
24. Fear God. Do not fear man— Matthew 10:28 (Also Luke 12:4-5)
25. Listen to God’s voice—Matthew 11:15, 13:9, 13:43, Mark 4:23, Luke 14:35, 1 Kings 19:11-13
26.Take my yoke—Matthew 11:29
27. Honor your parents—Matthew 15:4
28. Beware of false teaching—Matthew 16:6, 11-12
29. Deny yourself—Luke 9:23 (Also Matthew 10:38 and Mark 8:34)
30. Do not despise little ones—Matthew 18:10
31. Go to Christians who offend you—Matthew 8:15 (Also Galatians 6:1)
32. Forgive offenders—Matthew 18:21-22 (Also Proverbs 19:11)
33. Beware of covetousness—Luke 12:15
34. Honor marriage—Matthew 19:6, 19:9
35. Lead by being a servant—Matthew 20:26-28
36. Make the church a house of prayer for all nations—Mark 11:17
37. Pray in faith—Matthew 21:21-22, John 15:7
38. Bring in the poor—Luke 14:12-14
39. Render unto Caesar—Matthew 22:19-21
40. Love the Lord—Matthew 22:37-38
41. Love your neighbor—Matthew 22:39
42. Be born again—John 3:7
43. Await my return—Matthew 24:42-44
44. Celebrate the Lord’s supper—Matthew 26:26-
45. Watch and pray—Matthew 26:41
46. Keep my commandments—John 14:15
47. Feed my sheep—John 21:15-16
48. Make and baptize disciples—Matthew 28:19
49. Teach disciples to obey—Matthew 28:20
50. Receive God’s power—Luke 24:49

http://www.swapmeetdave.com/Bible/Commands/index.htm

What has changed is Jewish Law. For example Jewish Law requires the stoning to death of those caught in adultery. Just one example.

The trouble is, in the Old Testament God is called LORD and Baal is called LORD. Not many people realise this.

I will let you get back to me.
 
PS

PS

Senior Member
#304
Jan 11, 2013
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#304
Blik said:
Christ did not change the Torah that tells us of Christ. God is the same God, God does not change into a different God at any time. Christ was at the time of creation. The new covenant puts the law into our hearts, it does not recreate a God.
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God does not change. That is correct. We know from John 12:49 that what Jesus teaches is from the unchanging God.
For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

Did Jesus command us to make sacrifice and burnt offerings? No he did not. This is the Jewish Law that Jesus ended.

The Jews in accordance with their law, were acting outside of the will of God.

In every city of Judah he made high places to burn incense to other gods, and provoked to anger Yahweh, the God of his fathers. 2 Chronicles 28:25

“What to me is the multitude of your sacrifices? says the Lord; I have had enough of burnt offerings of rams and the fat of well-fed beasts; I do not delight in the blood of bulls, or of lambs, or of goats.(Isaiah 1:11)

Bring no more vain offerings; incense is an abomination to me. New moon and Sabbath and the calling of convocations—I cannot endure iniquity and solemn assembly. (Isaiah 1:13)

Thou shalt not do so unto the LORD thy God: for every abomination to the LORD, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods. (Deu 12:31 KJV)

It is Jewish law that is ended, not the law of the unchanging God, which very simply, is that we believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, that we accept him into our heart and life and follow Him. With that, all other things will fall and fade away. Trouble is, it seems that hasn't happened yet with you.
 
S

seed_time_harvest

Senior Member
#305
Dec 9, 2011
14,131
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#305
Deade said:
You can pour out words to justify just how you define the laws of Jesus Christ and point us to the curse of trying to be justified by keeping them all you want. The position I hold is I am justified by grace and need not keep any of the law for salvation. That brings us down to just what points in the law are still good for us.

Because of the weakness of our flesh, we sometimes still need guidance as to what sin is so we can stay away from that way. When someone comes in to the forum and states they obey God differently than we do, our ego jumps all over that. We know it is our ego when we resort to name calling and belittling statements. How much better it would be if we all calmly worked toward uncovering God's truths and edifying the brethren. :)
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I feel the same but we ARE living In a fallen world and hopefully I If the LORD say the same will be a light for the king to come until we all come Into unity to full measure of JESUS.
 
preston39

preston39

Senior Member
#308
Dec 18, 2017
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#308
PS said:
God's law has not changed. In fact it is stricter now, for those who are under the law, than it ever was. Compare this with the Ten Commandments and you will find it is a lot harder.

50 Commands of Christ - Summary List
1. Repent—Matthew 4:17, Luke 13:3
2. Let not your heart be troubled—John 14:27, John 16:33, Matthew 6:25-26, Philippians 4:6-7
3. Follow me—Matthew 4:19
4. Rejoice—Matthew 5:12, (Also 2 Corinthians 6:10, 12:10, James 1:2-4)
5. Let your light shine—Matthew 5:16
6. Honor God’s law—Matthew 5:17-19
7. Be reconciled—Matthew 5:24-25
8. Do not commit adultery—Matthew 5:27-30
9. Keep your word—Matthew 5:33-37
10. Go the second mile—Matthew 5:38-42
11. Love your enemies—Matthew 5:44
12. Be perfect—Matthew 5:48
13. Practice secret disciplines (giving, praying, fasting)—Matthew 6:1-18
14. Lay up treasures in heaven—Matthew 6:19-21
15. Seek first the kingdom of God—Matthew 6:33
16. Judge not—Matthew 7:1-2
17. Do not throw your pearls to pigs—Matthew 7:6
18. Ask, seek, and knock—Matthew 7:7-8
19. Do unto others—Matthew 7:12
20. Choose the narrow way—Matthew 7:13-14
21. Beware of false prophets—Matthew 7:15
22. Pray for those who spread the word—Matthew 9:37-38
23. Be as shrewd as serpents—Matthew 10:16. (Also Romans 16:19)
24. Fear God. Do not fear man— Matthew 10:28 (Also Luke 12:4-5)
25. Listen to God’s voice—Matthew 11:15, 13:9, 13:43, Mark 4:23, Luke 14:35, 1 Kings 19:11-13
26.Take my yoke—Matthew 11:29
27. Honor your parents—Matthew 15:4
28. Beware of false teaching—Matthew 16:6, 11-12
29. Deny yourself—Luke 9:23 (Also Matthew 10:38 and Mark 8:34)
30. Do not despise little ones—Matthew 18:10
31. Go to Christians who offend you—Matthew 8:15 (Also Galatians 6:1)
32. Forgive offenders—Matthew 18:21-22 (Also Proverbs 19:11)
33. Beware of covetousness—Luke 12:15
34. Honor marriage—Matthew 19:6, 19:9
35. Lead by being a servant—Matthew 20:26-28
36. Make the church a house of prayer for all nations—Mark 11:17
37. Pray in faith—Matthew 21:21-22, John 15:7
38. Bring in the poor—Luke 14:12-14
39. Render unto Caesar—Matthew 22:19-21
40. Love the Lord—Matthew 22:37-38
41. Love your neighbor—Matthew 22:39
42. Be born again—John 3:7
43. Await my return—Matthew 24:42-44
44. Celebrate the Lord’s supper—Matthew 26:26-
45. Watch and pray—Matthew 26:41
46. Keep my commandments—John 14:15
47. Feed my sheep—John 21:15-16
48. Make and baptize disciples—Matthew 28:19
49. Teach disciples to obey—Matthew 28:20
50. Receive God’s power—Luke 24:49

http://www.swapmeetdave.com/Bible/Commands/index.htm

What has changed is Jewish Law. For example Jewish Law requires the stoning to death of those caught in adultery. Just one example.

The trouble is, in the Old Testament God is called LORD and Baal is called LORD. Not many people realise this.

I will let you get back to me.
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You missed at least one very important one;

Be Baptized
 
Iconoclast

Iconoclast

Senior Member
#309
May 27, 2017
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#309
seed_time_harvest said:
Since No man can keep the ten commandments Why did JESUS come to earth?
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Too keep the ten commandments;
Gal4:
4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

Isa 42 spoke of it;
21 The Lord is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.
 
S

seed_time_harvest

Senior Member
#310
Dec 9, 2011
14,131
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#310
Iconoclast said:
Too keep the ten commandments;
Gal4:
4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

Isa 42 spoke of it;
21 The Lord is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.
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I don't understand why you say that the ten commandments are still In effect for every person?
 
Endoscopy

Endoscopy

Senior Member
#312
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
400
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#312
seed_time_harvest said:
Since No man can keep the ten commandments Why did JESUS come to earth?
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Sin is transgression of the law. All who sin are condemned at judgement time. In the old testament a yearly sacrifice was required to remove the past years sins. The best sacrifice was an unblemished lamb. Only Jesus never sinned. Thus he became the Unblemished Lamb of God. Thus we have the free gift of grace. For by grace through faith in Jesus our sins are removed from us.
 
J

JohnTalmid

Senior Member
#313
Mar 17, 2017
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#313
mailmandan said:
Since the Old Covenant has been made obsolete, does this leave us with no moral direction? Absolutely not. God has made the Old Covenant obsolete to "put legally into place" the New Covenant (2 Corinthians 3:6-9; Hebrews 8:6-13). The life of discipleship flows out of the new command, to love one another as He loved us (John 13:34), which Paul refers to as the "law of Christ" (Galatians 6:2). Love fulfills the law (Romans 13:8-10). Out of this single command comes other commands (which are relevant for Christians living in the New Covenant era) including references for the moral aspect of 9 of the 10 commandments which are reiterated under the New Covenant, yet the command to keep the Sabbath day is not binding on Christians under the New Covenant.

1. You shall have no other gods before Me. - Acts 14:15
2. You shall make no idols. - 1 John 5:21
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain. - James 5:12
4. Keep the Sabbath day holy. - Not binding on the Church - Colossians 2:16-17
5. Honor your father and your mother. - Ephesians 6:1-2
6. You shall not murder. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 John 3:15
7. You shall not commit adultery. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
8. You shall not steal. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 4:28
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. - Romans 13:9-10; Colossians 3:9-10
10. You shall not covet. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 5:3

To say that these moral commands are no longer relevant to Christians living in the New Covenant era is to the dung heap, yet at the same time, we have the other extreme of turning obeying the 10 commandments under the Old Covenant into a legalistic prescription for Christians under the New Covenant era as a means to obtaining eternal life, which is also to the dung heap.
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What has been taught to you about 2 Cor. 16-17 is very wrong.
Going on from there we read l, " Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men?"
Or is the Sabbath day a command of men or doctrine of demons? How about what is meant from the Father to be a blessing? Keeping the Sabbath days does not serve the flesh if kept correctly it develops perseverance and obedience to the will of the Father.
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

Senior Member
#314
Apr 7, 2014
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#314
JohnTalmid said:
What has been taught to you about 2 Cor. 16-17 is very wrong.
Going on from there we read l, "Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men?"
Or is the Sabbath day a command of men or doctrine of demons? How about what is meant from the Father to be a blessing? Keeping the Sabbath days does not serve the flesh if kept correctly it develops perseverance and obedience to the will of the Father.
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So you mix the old and new covenants? I've heard SDA's demand Sabbath keeping for Christians under the new covenant and I've also heard them teach that the near the end of time the "mark of the best" of Revelation 14 will be placed upon those who worship on Sunday instead of Saturday. - http://www.nonsda.org/study8.shtml :rolleyes:

The fruit of this kind of scripture twisting is salvation by "grace plus law, faith plus works." More than a subtle mixture of law and grace that is a perversion of the gospel. (Galatians 1:6-9)

Sabbath keeping with all it's rules and regulations, was part of a covenant with Israel that is not binding on Christians under the new covenant.

*Colossians 2:16 - Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.

Even when Sabbatarians set out to worship on the Sabbath, are they truly "keeping the Sabbath?" To "keep the Sabbath" as it was required in the Old Testament under the Old Covenant would involve compliance with specific regulations (Exodus 16:23; 35:3; Leviticus 23:32; Jeremiah 17:21) that were strictly enforced.

If Sabbath day observances are still required, so would the burnt offerings which went along with them (Leviticus 19:30; 23:2-3; Numbers 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13). So no kindling a fire in any of your dwellings on the sabbath (Exodus 35:3). Every man must remain in his place on the sabbath (Exodus 16:29). No trading (Amos 8:5). No marketing (Nehemiah 10:31; 13:15,19).

These were commanded by God to Israel (Exodus 35:1).

If the seventh day Sabbath is still in affect, then why do not the Sabbatarians seek to obey ALL that the LORD commanded? How can a person keep a certain law when he keeps only part of it?

If the Sabbath day laws were still in effect today, then according to Exodus 31:12-18; 35:1-3; and Numbers 15:32-36, anyone who profaned the Sabbath was put to death and any person who does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from his people.

Who is going to enforce that? The Jewish synagogue? The Seventh day Adventist church? The Government? Since we do not live under a theocratic state as ancient Israel did under the Old Covenant, no Sabbatarian can live consistently under these Mosaic regulations. ;)

Now show me in the New Testament where the Church is commanded to keep the Sabbath day.
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

Senior Member
#316
Apr 7, 2014
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#316
Iconoclast said:
Hebrews4:9 hebrews 8
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Hebrews 4:9 - So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God. (NASB) Notice that the Greek word "sabbatismos" is used no where else in the Bible! Amazing that Sabbatarians would suggest that this is the word for "keeping the weekly Sabbath" when it is never used anywhere else!

W. E. Vine, Greek Dictionary proves the Sabbatarian argument wrong:

SABBATISMOS (4520), a Sabbath-keeping, is used in Heb. 4:9, R.V., "a Sabbath rest," A.V. marg., "a keeping of a Sabbath" (akin to sabbatizoµ, to keep the Sabbath, used, e.g., in Ex. 16:30, not in the N.T.); here the Sabbath-keeping is the perpetual Sabbath rest to be enjoyed uninterruptedly by believers in their fellowship with the Father and the Son, in contrast to the weekly Sabbath under the Law. Because this Sabbath rest is the rest of God Himself, its full fruition is yet future, though believers now enter into it.

Romans 8:8 - Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 11 None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.” 13 In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
 
PS

PS

Senior Member
#318
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
#318
Iconoclast said:
Too keep the ten commandments;
Gal4:
4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

Isa 42 spoke of it;
21 The Lord is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.
Click to expand...
That is not why Jesus the, I AM came to earth from heavens glory.
 
PS

PS

Senior Member
#319
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
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#319
seed_time_harvest said:
I don't understand why you say that the ten commandments are still In effect for every person?
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Well, if you are thinking the Ten Commandments are of no effect today, be prepared to spend a very long time in prison or even on death row for not keeping them.
 
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