Retire the Ten Commandments?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

preston39

Senior Member
Dec 18, 2017
1,675
240
63
#1
WASHINGTON – A mega-pastor of one of the largest “evangelical” churches in the U.S. is attacking the Old Testament again, this time insisting Jesus rendered the Ten Commandments null and void, issuing one new law “as a replacement for everything.” Andy Stanley, pastor of the 34,000-member North Point Community Church in suburban Atlanta, who famously advised his flock to “unhitch” from the Old Testament in a sermon last spring, has now penned an article promoting his new book saying laws such as “Thou shalt have no other gods before me” and “Thou shalt not kill” are no longer relevant to Christians living in the New Covenant era……Read More


He must have been talking with the pope.

A new, new age religion concept........."great deceptions in the end times".

The Bible does not change. People try to change the Bible....by reinterpretation or a new bible edition.

This is not even believable. To the dung heap.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
18,011
5,577
113
53
#2
Since the Old Covenant has been made obsolete, does this leave us with no moral direction? Absolutely not. God has made the Old Covenant obsolete to "put legally into place" the New Covenant (2 Corinthians 3:6-9; Hebrews 8:6-13). The life of discipleship flows out of the new command, to love one another as He loved us (John 13:34), which Paul refers to as the "law of Christ" (Galatians 6:2). Love fulfills the law (Romans 13:8-10). Out of this single command comes other commands (which are relevant for Christians living in the New Covenant era) including references for the moral aspect of 9 of the 10 commandments which are reiterated under the New Covenant, yet the command to keep the Sabbath day is not binding on Christians under the New Covenant.

1. You shall have no other gods before Me. - Acts 14:15
2. You shall make no idols. - 1 John 5:21
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain. - James 5:12
4. Keep the Sabbath day holy. - Not binding on the Church - Colossians 2:16-17
5. Honor your father and your mother. - Ephesians 6:1-2
6. You shall not murder. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 John 3:15
7. You shall not commit adultery. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
8. You shall not steal. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 4:28
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. - Romans 13:9-10; Colossians 3:9-10
10. You shall not covet. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 5:3

To say that these moral commands are no longer relevant to Christians living in the New Covenant era is to the dung heap, yet at the same time, we have the other extreme of turning obeying the 10 commandments under the Old Covenant into a legalistic prescription for Christians under the New Covenant era as a means to obtaining eternal life, which is also to the dung heap.
 

pottersclay

Senior Member
Aug 13, 2015
3,534
536
113
#3
All of God's word is relevant to each and every one of us. Without knowing the commandments, the law, the boundaries in which our Lord has established how could we possibly know the depth, width, and breath of his son's love for us.
We were bound by the law and sentence to death but our" way maker" "chain breaker" "prison shaker" savior came to the rescue.
 
Sep 6, 2014
4,592
2,056
113
bereanbeacon.org
#4
Galatians 3:22-26
But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

23But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. 24Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

26For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Ephesians 4:13
until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God, as we mature to the full measure of the stature of Christ.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
9,259
1,610
113
#5
Since the Old Covenant has been made obsolete, does this leave us with no moral direction? Absolutely not. God has made the Old Covenant obsolete to "put legally into place" the New Covenant (2 Corinthians 3:6-9; Hebrews 8:6-13). The life of discipleship flows out of the new command, to love one another as He loved us (John 13:34), which Paul refers to as the "law of Christ" (Galatians 6:2). Love fulfills the law (Romans 13:8-10). Out of this single command comes other commands (which are relevant for Christians living in the New Covenant era) including references for the moral aspect of 9 of the 10 commandments which are reiterated under the New Covenant, yet the command to keep the Sabbath day is not binding on Christians under the New Covenant.

1. You shall have no other gods before Me. - Acts 14:15
2. You shall make no idols. - 1 John 5:21
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain. - James 5:12
4. Keep the Sabbath day holy. - Not binding on the Church - Colossians 2:16-17
5. Honor your father and your mother. - Ephesians 6:1-2
6. You shall not murder. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 John 3:15
7. You shall not commit adultery. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
8. You shall not steal. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 4:28
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. - Romans 13:9-10; Colossians 3:9-10
10. You shall not covet. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 5:3

To say that these moral commands are no longer relevant to Christians living in the New Covenant era is to the dung heap, yet at the same time, we have the other extreme of turning obeying the 10 commandments under the Old Covenant into a legalistic prescription for Christians under the New Covenant era as a means to obtaining eternal life, which is also to the dung heap.
What does keeping the sabbath day holy (7th day) have to do with morality?

Is someone who rests on Saturday morally pure?

Is someone who works on Saturday morally corrupt?
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
18,011
5,577
113
53
#6
What does keeping the sabbath day holy (7th day) have to do with morality?

Is someone who rests on Saturday morally pure?

Is someone who works on Saturday morally corrupt?
I wasn’t saying that keeping the sabbath day holy has to do with morality and that command which was binding on Israel under the old covenant is not binding on Christians under the new covenant. The answers to your other two questions are both NO.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
10,821
918
113
#7
What does keeping the sabbath day holy (7th day) have to do with morality?

Is someone who rests on Saturday morally pure?

Is someone who works on Saturday morally corrupt?

Yes there are two kinds of sabbaths when read slowly . One as a ceremonial law found in the Exodus and Deuteronomy used as parables as shadows. Two different reasons to keep it by guarding it .One in respect to creation.

For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.Exodus 20:11

And the other in the Deuteronomy the exodus from Egypt typified as this world into the new heavens and earth the promised land typified by the temporal land, not the married land the eternal new heavens and earth.

And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the Lord thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the Lord thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day .Deuteromomy 5

The Holy Spirit does not use his signified or metaphorical language when it comes to moral laws, Tho shalt not murder is clearly understood without a parable .

Then we have the other kind of Sabbath (Hebrews 4) that comes whenever we do hear the word of God and believe God (mix faith) . those who do not mix faith the unseen eternal do not hear the gospel .

A picture of God who is of one mind.... always doing the good pleasure of His own soul as he does both work in us, with the believer to both will do his good pleasure (imputed righteousness ) Therefore softening out hearts resting from our own works.

Promising us as the better things that accompany salvation.... he will not forget the good works we have offered towards his name.

But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth. For he performeth the thing that is appointed for me: and many such things are with him.Therefore am I troubled at his presence: when I consider, I am afraid of him. For God maketh my heart soft, and the Almighty troubleth me:.Job 23:13:16

But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.
For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister. Hebrews 6:9-10

In that way we are not to murmur; "what about me" Did you forget??

For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings:philipian2:13-14
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
2,870
589
113
#8
WASHINGTON – A mega-pastor of one of the largest “evangelical” churches in the U.S. is attacking the Old Testament again, this time insisting Jesus rendered the Ten Commandments null and void, issuing one new law “as a replacement for everything.” Andy Stanley, pastor of the 34,000-member North Point Community Church in suburban Atlanta, who famously advised his flock to “unhitch” from the Old Testament in a sermon last spring, has now penned an article promoting his new book saying laws such as “Thou shalt have no other gods before me” and “Thou shalt not kill” are no longer relevant to Christians living in the New Covenant era……Read More


He must have been talking with the pope.

A new, new age religion concept........."great deceptions in the end times".

The Bible does not change. People try to change the Bible....by reinterpretation or a new bible edition.

This is not even believable. To the dung heap.
Every part of the OT law has been fulfilled: not obliterated, destroyed, or negated.

Do the ten commandments have application and use for us today? Absolutely, but not as a means to attain holiness and salvation. The law was a schoolmaster to bring us to Christ.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
13,308
1,714
113
#9
The ten commandments were given to Israel not to the Gentile nations. The ten commandments were given to make sin personal so each individual could be accountable to God. The ten commandments were never intended to make one righteous. The Gentile nations without the ten commandments knew that it was wrong to murder, steal, lie, or commit adultery.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
1,595
423
83
#10
What does keeping the sabbath day holy (7th day) have to do with morality?

Is someone who rests on Saturday morally pure?

Is someone who works on Saturday morally corrupt?
Paul explained this thoroughly in Romans 6. We are to die to sin with Christ, to accept what Christ did for us. We cannot do this and still be led by our sinful desires, but we share in the resurrection of Christ. We are cleaned and forgiven of our sins. Now we obey the commandments but in spirit, we take on the spirit of the Lord. We still do not murder, but in the spirit of gthe lord we love and with love there is no murder. We do not steal, for we care for all God created and with that caring we do not steal. We honor the Sabbath for we take on the love through Christ, and with love we honor the day He set aside for us.

We are spared the legalistic way of obedience as God's servants and become sons, as we find by studying further in Romans.
 

UnderGrace

Senior Member
May 8, 2016
9,374
5,804
113
#11
Since the Old Covenant has been made obsolete, does this leave us with no moral direction? Absolutely not. God has made the Old Covenant obsolete to "put legally into place" the New Covenant (2 Corinthians 3:6-9; Hebrews 8:6-13). The life of discipleship flows out of the new command, to love one another as He loved us (John 13:34), which Paul refers to as the "law of Christ" (Galatians 6:2). Love fulfills the law (Romans 13:8-10). Out of this single command comes other commands (which are relevant for Christians living in the New Covenant era) including references for the moral aspect of 9 of the 10 commandments which are reiterated under the New Covenant, yet the command to keep the Sabbath day is not binding on Christians under the New Covenant.

1. You shall have no other gods before Me. - Acts 14:15
2. You shall make no idols. - 1 John 5:21
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain. - James 5:12
4. Keep the Sabbath day holy. - Not binding on the Church - Colossians 2:16-17
5. Honor your father and your mother. - Ephesians 6:1-2
6. You shall not murder. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 John 3:15
7. You shall not commit adultery. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
8. You shall not steal. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 4:28
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. - Romans 13:9-10; Colossians 3:9-10
10. You shall not covet. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 5:3

To say that these moral commands are no longer relevant to Christians living in the New Covenant era is to the dung heap, yet at the same time, we have the other extreme of turning obeying the 10 commandments under the Old Covenant into a legalistic prescription for Christians under the New Covenant era as a means to obtaining eternal life, which is also to the dung heap.
All of these things are accomplished by God's grace, an internal change of the heart, not by adherence to the external laws.

Because Jesus fulfilled the law, we are now able to "act out" His imputed righteousness in the world.

That is the true Christian walk, manifestating what is internal outward, every moment we make a choice we can exert self control over the flesh or we can walk in our new creation, the new creation is built on Jesus not the ten commandments.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
1,595
423
83
#12
All of these things are accomplished by God's grace, an internal change of the heart, not by adherence to the external laws.

Because Jesus fulfilled the law, we are now able to "act out" His imputed righteousness in the world.

That is the true Christian walk, manifestating what is internal outward, every moment we make a choice we can exert self control over the flesh or we can walk in our new creation, the new creation is built on Jesus not the ten commandments.
When scripture speaks of "fulfill", it is not the law it is all the prophecies concerning Him. The words "fulfill the law" has no meaning. It is a fact that trough Jesus we escape death from the law, for through Jesus we are forgiven our sins. When we accept Jesus and ask forgiveness, we die to sin and live in glory through Him. To say Jesus fulfilled the law is not saying this.
 

7seasrekeyed

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2017
7,553
3,146
113
#13
oh here we go again

please ... would all Christians reading this thread put up their hands if they think they can go out and sin like a boat full of pagan sailors?

yes..it's time you filthy sinners finally admitted it and started leaving the vowels out of God's name

does the understanding Christ fulfilled all the obligations of the law just fly over people's heads in their haste to put themselves back where Christ took them out of?

you know, there are enough cults and weirdos out there professing to be Christian, without constantly constantly arguing about whether or not Jesus needs us to help Him along

or whether or not those who write G-D are more holy than those who just jump in and say God without worrying if they have offended GOD

while y'all are so busy redefining grace and believing you are securing a special spot beside God in heaven, the country is in desperate need of people to plead with God that the plots and plans of the wicked in government cannot succeed

you have liberty now to have discussions like this, but if you wish to keep it, consider what is going on in the government right now and pray
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
18,011
5,577
113
53
#14
All of these things are accomplished by God's grace, an internal change of the heart, not by adherence to the external laws.

Because Jesus fulfilled the law, we are now able to "act out" His imputed righteousness in the world.

That is the true Christian walk, manifestating what is internal outward, every moment we make a choice we can exert self control over the flesh or we can walk in our new creation, the new creation is built on Jesus not the ten commandments.
Yes, He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant — not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills...the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone...the ministry that condemns" (2 Corinthians 3:6-9).

The law on our heart and mind is the love of the Spirit, not the law of the letter. This is why Paul tells us that the new covenant is a covenant of the Spirit, and not of the letter. (y)
 

SpoonJuly

Senior Member
Feb 16, 2018
1,276
913
113
#15
WASHINGTON – A mega-pastor of one of the largest “evangelical” churches in the U.S. is attacking the Old Testament again, this time insisting Jesus rendered the Ten Commandments null and void, issuing one new law “as a replacement for everything.” Andy Stanley, pastor of the 34,000-member North Point Community Church in suburban Atlanta, who famously advised his flock to “unhitch” from the Old Testament in a sermon last spring, has now penned an article promoting his new book saying laws such as “Thou shalt have no other gods before me” and “Thou shalt not kill” are no longer relevant to Christians living in the New Covenant era……Read More


He must have been talking with the pope.

A new, new age religion concept........."great deceptions in the end times".

The Bible does not change. People try to change the Bible....by reinterpretation or a new bible edition.

This is not even believable. To the dung heap.
I doubt that Jesus recognizes North Point Community Church as one of His churches.
Nothing more than a large business using religion as a way to make Andy Stanley very rich and those who attend the ability to leave the service feeling good about their lifestyle.
 

UnderGrace

Senior Member
May 8, 2016
9,374
5,804
113
#16
When scripture speaks of "fulfill", it is not the law it is all the prophecies concerning Him. The words "fulfill the law" has no meaning. It is a fact that trough Jesus we escape death from the law, for through Jesus we are forgiven our sins. When we accept Jesus and ask forgiveness, we die to sin and live in glory through Him. To say Jesus fulfilled the law is not saying this.
I think this explains it fairly well. We are more than forgiven we are new creations in Him, we are partakers of His divine nature.

Romans 8: 1 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. 2For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death. 3For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, 4in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
8,940
2,745
113
#17
Every part of the OT law has been fulfilled: not obliterated, destroyed, or negated.
That is not quite accurate. We need to examine the Law of Moses properly to determine what has been fulfilled and what is still in force.

1. The Ten Commandments -- moral, spiritual, and eternal, now written on the hearts and minds of the children of God, and incorporated into the Law of Christ. They are *fulfilled* by individuals when they are applied through the Law of Love and by the Spirit of God. See Romans 13.

2. Commandments pertaining to the tabernacle, the temple, and the Levitical priesthood -- null and void. Believers enter into the Heavenly Sanctuary by faith, where Christ is the Great High Priest after the order of Melchizedek. (See the epistle to the Hebrews for all commandments which are null and void.)

3. Commandments pertaining to all animals sacrifices and temple offerings -- null and void. Christ -- the Lamb of God -- fulfilled ALL of these offerings in Himself at the Cross.

4. Commandments pertaining to the tithe -- null and void since the Levitical priesthood is also null and void. Christian giving is "a grace" and "liberality".

5. Commandments pertaining to the feasts, festivals, new moons, holy days, and sabbaths -- null and void. These were shadows, whereas the reality is Christ. The Lord's Day is the Christian sabbath.

6. Commandments pertaining to civil and criminal laws -- still valuable to all governments. These have entered into the laws of Western nations to some degree.

7. Commandments pertaining to dietary restrictions -- null and void. For Christians all meats are to be received with thanksgiving.

8. Commandments pertaining to the consumption of blood ( including meats from strangled animals) -- still applicable to all Christians. These laws were given to Noah, reiterated to Moses, and then reiterated to the Church.

When Christ said that He came to *fulfill* the Law, He revealed that only He could keep the Law perfectly, and then pay the penalty for the violation of all God's laws through His shed blood and His sacrifice on the Cross.
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. (Gal 3:13,14)

No one can be justified by "the works of the Law". At the same time all Christians are required to produce fruit, and some of those fruit are good works. Eph 2:8-10.
 

UnderGrace

Senior Member
May 8, 2016
9,374
5,804
113
#18
8. Commandments pertaining to the consumption of blood ( including meats from strangled animals) -- still applicable to all Christians. These laws were given to Noah, reiterated to Moses, and then reiterated to the Church.
Where is this reiterated to the church?
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
515
113
#19
oh here we go again

please ... would all Christians reading this thread put up their hands if they think they can go out and sin like a boat full of pagan sailors?

yes..it's time you filthy sinners finally admitted it and started leaving the vowels out of God's name

does the understanding Christ fulfilled all the obligations of the law just fly over people's heads in their haste to put themselves back where Christ took them out of?

you know, there are enough cults and weirdos out there professing to be Christian, without constantly constantly arguing about whether or not Jesus needs us to help Him along

or whether or not those who write G-D are more holy than those who just jump in and say God without worrying if they have offended GOD

while y'all are so busy redefining grace and believing you are securing a special spot beside God in heaven, the country is in desperate need of people to plead with God that the plots and plans of the wicked in government cannot succeed

you have liberty now to have discussions like this, but if you wish to keep it, consider what is going on in the government right now and pray
A little leaven leavens the whole lump.

Luke 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
8,940
2,745
113
#20
Where is this reiterated to the church?
ACTS 15
19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood...
28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.