Not By Works

Amen.

As it is, James said;

...You see that his faith and his actions were WORKING TOGETHER, and his faith was made complete by what he did. And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called God’s friend. You see that a person is justified by what he does and NOT BY FAITH ALONE.
James 2:22-24

While Paul said:

...For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is FAITH EXPRESSING ITSELF THROUGH "LOVE". Galatians 5:6

And John explained it by saying;

...AND THIS IS LOVE: that we WALK IN OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS. As you have heard FROM THE BEGINNING, his command is that you WALK IN LOVE. 2 John 1:6

Therefore we conclude a man is justified by faith WITHOUT THE DEEDS/WORKS OF THE LAW

I see the Catholic deceiver is still peddling a working for false gospel....

What we SEE Deceiver.... IS YOUR INCESSANT TWIST OF James to say something it does not say

"Their throats are open graves; their tongues practice deceit.The poison of vipers is on their lips."
"Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness."
"Their feet are swift to shed blood;
ruin and misery mark their ways,
and the way of peace they do not know."
"There is no fear of God before their eyes."
Rom 3:13-18

When people claim fear is evil, lying about others is ok, wishing harm and destruction on them
is Gods way, wishing their end is good, and the conflict and misery is Gods presence in their lives,
this is not where the Holy Spirit dwells.

The fruit of the Spirit is
"love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law."
Gal 5:22-23

If such a sentiment causes hatred to rise in your heart, your heart does not know Jesus, salvation
or the cross.

I have heard people talk of a "sugar coated gospel". I fear the hatred that creates such an idea is
lost beyond redemption and the Lord being able to speak to the bitterness, hurt and anger that lies within.
Kick the slop bucket and what comes out? That is what it is full of to the brim, putrid filth or the
joy of the Lord that knows no bounds?

You know, but can you face yourself today, or only when it is too late before the King of Kings?
This is the only reality that matters, the Kingdom within or judgement awaiting without?

Isn't it nice and fair if you would tell us what these verses mean to you and the reason why you called me a deceiver for posting these verses?

Please show me where in my post did i say something to twist James or where have i said in my post something James does not say?

Roman Catholics (along with other works-salvationists) misinterpret James 2:24 and teach that we are "justified" in the sense that we are "accounted as righteous" based on the merits of our works, which is absolutely false. (see Romans 4:2-6)

Roman Catholics will stress WORKING TOGETHER and FAITH ALONE in James 2:22-24 to teach that we are saved by BOTH faith AND works. Roman Catholics will also stress FAITH WORKING THROUGH LOVE in Galatians 5:6 to teach that Christians will only reap the reward of eternal life if they continue to perform good works. That is salvation "maintained" by works. Roman Catholics view eternal life as a reward that we work for and earn and justification as a process, which is absolutely false.

Roman Catholics will twist Ephesians 2:8,9 to make it read like this: For by grace you have been saved through faith (infused with good works)...and just not by works of the law (like circumcision). What they are actually saying is that we are saved by "these" works (good works) and just not "those" works (works of the law like circumcision) which is absolutely false. (See Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9)

Here is a statement from a works-salvationist who attends the church of Christ that is very similar to what Roman Catholics teach: "
"It is works of obedience that help to save us and not works of the law or works of merit."

OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS is the demonstrative evidence of our love for the Lord (2 John 1:6), yet Roman Catholics teach that obedience to His commands is the basis or means by which we merit eternal life.

Roman Catholics also re-define faith to "include" works. Here is an example of this below from a statement made by a Roman Catholic that I was in a discussion with:

We ARE saved by faith - as long as you properly define "Faith". Faith is NOT simply "believing". Faith INCLUDES: Being baptized, eating His body and drinking His blood/partaking the Lord's Supper during Mass, works of mercy and charity, obeying his commandments, doing the will of the Father etc..

So although various works-salvationists have a difference in style, it's the same in substance - "works based false gospel."

Let's examine James 2:14-26.

In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but has no works (to evidence his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. *So James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. Simple!

In James 2:19, we see that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God," but they do not believe/have faith in/trust in/reliance in Jesus Christ for salvation. In other words, they do not believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. Their trust and reliance is in Satan, as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.

In James 2:20, "faith without works is dead" does not mean that faith is dead until it produces works (which is like saying a tree is dead until it produces fruit) and then it becomes a living faith or that works are the source of life in faith or that we are saved by works. James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works is dead. If someone says-claims they have faith but lack resulting evidential works, then they have an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith.

In James 2:21, notice closely that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God's accounting Abraham as righteous. The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22. The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to account him as righteous, but it showed or manifested the genuineness of his faith. This is the "sense" in which Abraham was "justified by works." He was shown to be righteous.

In James 2:22, faith made perfect or complete by works means bring to maturity, carry to the end, to complete like love in 1 John 4:18. It does not mean that Abraham was finally saved based on merits of his works after he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22. When Abraham performed the good work in Genesis 22; he fulfilled the expectations created by the pronouncement of his faith in Genesis 15:6.

In James 2:23, the scripture was fulfilled in vindicating or demonstrating that Abraham believed God and was accounted as righteous. Abraham was accounted as righteous based on his faith (Genesis 15:6) not his works (Romans 4:2-3) long before he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22.

In James 2:24, James is not using the word "justified" here to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3). Works bear out the justification that already came by faith.

In the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, the Greek word for justified "dikaioo" #1344 is:

1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

In Matthew 12:37, we read - "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." This is because our words (and our works) reveal the condition of our hearts. Words/works will be evidences for, or against a man being in a state of righteousness.

God is said to have been justified by those who were baptized by John the Baptist (Luke 7:29). This act pronounced or declared God to be righteous. It did not make him righteous. The basis or ground for the pronouncement was the fact that God IS righteous. *Notice that the NIV reads, "acknowledged that God's way was right.." The ESV reads, "they declared God just.." This is the "sense" in which God was "justified." He was shown to be righteous.

Matthew 11:19 "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax-gatherers and sinners!' Yet wisdom is justified/vindicated/shown to be right by her deeds."

In James 2:25, Rahab believed in the Lord with authentic faith (Joshua 2:9-13), requested "kindness" (2:12), received the promise of kindness (2:14), and hung out the "scarlet line" (2:21), as the demonstration of her authentic faith. She showed that her faith in God was not a dead faith by her works, just as all genuine believers show theirs.

In James 2:26, the comparison of the human spirit and faith converges around their modes of operation. The spirit (Greek pneuma) may also be translated "breath." As a breathless body emits no indication of life, so fruitless faith exhibits no indication of life. The source of the life in faith is not works; rather, life in faith is the source of works (Ephesians 2:5-10).

So as we can clearly see from scripture, man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is vindicated, substantiated, evidenced by works (James 2:14-26).

*Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works.

It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-26). *Perfect Harmony*

I like this summary of faith shown through the fruit of faith, the right words and deeds.

I am though am wondering the second paragraph about demons.
Open rebellion against God dooms satan and the angels to the lake of fire and torment forever.
We are only forgiven because our rebellion is lost in sin and blindness. If we rebel in the open
we are lost eternally.

I was shown mercy because I acted in ignorance and unbelief. 1 Tim 1:13

The idea I hear being expressed is self has replaced Christ. As self reigns in sinful man and unless
repentance puts God on our throne, we are ruled by self always. Without the cross and brokenness
there is only judgement in our future before God.

The idea being put forward is if we recognise any work of God in our hearts we have put justification
on our selves and not Christ. This only works if we stay locked at the foot of the cross when we first
come to faith. But Jesus comes as our friend and ministers to our strengths, and lifts us up, and says
you are His child, chosen and blessed to serve the King.

We are called to look at ourselves as God sees us.

For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment, in accordance with the measure of faith God has given you.
Just as each of us has one body with many members, and these members do not all have the same function,
so in Christ we who are many form one body, and each member belongs to all the others.
Rom 12:3-5

Unless we let God speak to us in truth and light, we can never grow and act on areas in our lives
Jesus needs to walk on. We are being transformed into His likeness, the likeness of the Son of God.
To destroy this very work of Christ in our hearts is to deny His intentions and His work.
God bless you.

You keep interpreting scriptures as if you have the authority and discernment to do so.

Remember what John said;

...We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did. 1 John 2:3-6

Now tell me frankly, what does a LIAR have as authority to interpret God's Words?

Does it hurt to be called a LIAR?

Now, tell me, did I INSULT, MALIGN and MOCK you?

I understand that you CLAIM to OBEY GOD because you are a SAVED BELIEVER.

The question is, do you not say that OBEDIENCE TO GOD HAS NO BEARING IN SALVATION?
...that those who teach OBEDIENCE TO GOD are PEDDLERS of a false Gospel, whose views are IDIOTIC, DECEIVERS and a lot more.

Who then would you like me to believe? Your words or the scripture?

It's so amazing why the OSAS camp can't teach OBEDIENCE TO GOD. Maybe it's about time to consider these things and stop the REBELLION.

obedience to God is taught.

obedience is what follows salvation.

obedience does not maintain or cause salvation.

fruit trees bear fruit because they are fruit tress.

not to BE fruit trees.

Christ followers obey because they are are Christ followers. not to BE Christ followers.

I believe the quality of the sermon is slightly determined by how LOUD the person preaching is yelling.

Let me see a man of God clap hands and scream! Lets get pumped up about the fact that we're not going to hell and get to be with the Lord!

I remember one time I was witnessing to people and they said "why are you so loud"? I said "because I can be!" God saved those people at the end of the day!

1 Corinthians 2:11 - For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God. 13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

1 John 2:3 - By this we know that we have come to know Him, (already have come to know Him/already saved - demonstrative evidence) if we keep (guard, observe, watch over) His commandments. BTW the Greek word for "keep" is "tereo" (Strong's #5083) which means to guard, observe, watch over) His commandments. It does not mean sinless, perfect obedience 100% of the time, as sinless perfectionists teach. 1 John 2:4 - The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep (guard, observe, watch over) His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

*Do you believe that you perfectly obey ALL the commandments of the Lord?
*Do you also believe that will be the basis or means by which you receive eternal life?

1 John 2:6 - the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked. (NASB)

Ask yourself that question.

Absolutely not because I CONSIDER THE SOURCE.

If you are calling me a liar, then YES.

How many unbelievers obey God?

Obedience to God which follows have been saved through faith is the FRUIT of salvation, but not the root of it. That is the HUGE difference that you cannot seem to grasp. It's people who teach they will be saved based on the merits of their obedience/works that peddle a false gospel. There is absolutely nothing wrong with authentic obedience to God and that is what we are saved FOR.

My words line up with scripture.

Here you go again. Playing the straw man card. Believers do teach obedience to God but FOR THE RIGHT PURPOSE AND WITH THE RIGHT MOTIVATION which is not rebellion. Those who REFUSE to REPENT and BELIEVE the gospel and teach SALVATION BY WORKS are in REBELLION.

Amen brother! Works-salvationists have the tail wagging the dog. The cart before the horse.

It is possible one can be actually not being honest or fair to another believer.

There are believers who say following Jesus and obeying His commands is not part of the gospel.
That becoming like Jesus is sinless perfectionism.

The danger is one becomes a victim of the enemy making enemies within the body of Christ.
Reading the exchanges it sounds remarkably like this.

Not listening to either side, and then throwing words like lie, slander gets nowhere.
It is simple to cause disputes, it is much harder to walk in the Spirit.

I have never been a works salvationist, or either calvanist or armenian. I desire simply to know
Jesus and hear His words. Is this the enemy talking or just listening to Jesus?
If I speak His words then how can I be the enemy? If I am not the enemy, then ones sight is
wrong and distorted and the antagonism is not from God.

Cleanse your heart, and only then will you be able to see correctly.
This is Jesus's advice and ultimately command. But it is not I will punish you, it is if you want
to see Gods way, this is the only way.

Hi there down under living the good life and blessed by God. Here's a follow up to your post yesterday; and thank you for teaching me a new "Greek" word, "kosmokratos", a ruler of this world. There are people on this thread who would help promote "the ruler of this world", by using their counterfeit gospel to lead unsuspecting people into the pit, am I over reacting to this problem? No I do not think so.
Strong's Concordance
kosmokratór: a ruler of this world

HELPS Word-studies
2888 kosmokrátōr (from 2889 /kósmos, "world" and 2902 /kratéō, "to rule") – properly, world-ruler, referring to Satan (demons) influencing the lives of worldly people (used only in Eph 6:12).

Ephesians 6:12
For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms

1Peter 5:8
Be alert and of sober mind. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour

I didn't know the word but I understood the context. I think many Christians misunderstand who is really involved with human politics and re-educating the masses. The new Roman style of political dictatorship that let's us think we are in charge seems to be more like knights of old pointing at each others flawed armor and overlooking the big picture.

This goes across the board because the Devil is pulling the strings. He loves Zealots of all persuasions' to stay at each others throats so we don't notice what's really going on.

Technology is becoming a new false god. And the economy is a new false religion. Once E-Banking and the internet meld the enemy will have the perfect tools to rule for a while. We are almost there now!

Technology is becoming a new false god. And the economy is a new false religion. Once E-Banking and the internet meld the enemy will have the perfect tools to rule for a while. We are almost there now![/QUOTE]

Don't forget most of the worlds most deadliest weapons are computer controlled. The media can be easily manipulated too, NOW! When I turn on my browser the first things I get are conflicting news reports. I don't think it's an accident. The enemy loves it when we fight against ourselves.

Be in the world not of it!

Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows.
The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up.
Gal 6:7-9

This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,
for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith.
Who is it that overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.
This is the one who came by water and blood--Jesus Christ. He did not come by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth.
For there are three that testify:
the Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.
1 John 5:3-8

In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God's grace
that he lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding.
Eph 1:7-8

The tongue also is a fire, a world of evil among the parts of the body. It corrupts the whole person, sets the whole course of his life on fire, and is itself set on fire by hell.
James 3:6

Yet I hold this against you: You have forsaken your first love.
Remember the height from which you have fallen! Repent and do the things you did at first. If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place.
But you have this in your favor: You hate the practices of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.
He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.
Rev 2:4-7