Not By Works

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BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
7,963
3,838
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I keep hearing saved by grace through faith, maintained by works. Certain people seem to believe that Christ merely "initially" saved them and now it's up to them to pull themselves up by their own bootstraps and do the rest.
Ephesians 2:8-10
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

Good works prepared before we came to faith.
Not works that save us but works as result of faith.
And yes we will walk in them.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,204
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I lean pre-trib yes. But if I am asked to say if i guarantee it. No, Not any longer..


WOW, did I ever misunderstand you. Good for you! I have also done some ADDITIONAL STUDIES ON THE SUBJECT. And it has lead me to be ROCK SOLID on Belief in the CALLING OUT OF THE BRIDE OF CHRIST WILL BE PRETRIB. Some people have accused me of believing in a position that will LEAVE ME UNREADY to face the FUTURE, if I am proven wrong. LOL, they obviously do not understand a PRETRIB Position at all. IF I AM READY TO GO TO MY HEAVENLY HOME NOW, I WILL ALWAYS BE READY NO MATTER WHEN THE FATHER says to the SON, "THE PLACE YOU HAVE BUILT FOR THE BRIDE, IS DONE. GO GET YOUR BRIDE !"

People forget that HE told People to GET READY NOW!

Matthew 25:13 (NCV)
13 So always be ready, because you don’t know the day or the hour the Son of Man will come.


Here is my personal study that MADE ME ROCK SOLID on our PRETRIB Position:

https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...bride-to-go-to-the-wedding-of-the-lamb.95283/
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Those verses above do not INSULT, MALIGN or MOCK me, but you do if you are using those verses against me to imply that I'm a hypocrite, liar and enemy of God. By your sarcastic remark "I'm not surprised" it would appear so, yet regardless, my conscience is clear. I find it interesting that you have the audacity to accuse others of loving to INSULT, MALIGN and MOCK others on Christian Chat, yet do the same thing yourself. It's called hypocrisy. BTW in context, Mark 7:6-13 is directed at the Pharisees and scribes (see Mark 7:1-5) and NOT to believers.
Amen migo........keep swinging the sword.....the enemy is rank and file deep and the kosmokratos will take as many as he can with him to the pit!!
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,204
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Here is another analogy:

You are given the car as a gift, but if you dont take care of it, the car will rot away.


BUT YOU FORGET, we are NOT the one's who are to take care of it.

John 10:27-30 (HCSB)
27 My sheep hear My voice, I know them, and they follow Me.
28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish—ever!
No one will snatch them out of My hand.
29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all. No one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
30 The Father and I are one.”

Philippians 1:6 (HCSB)
6 I am sure of this, that He who started a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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I went back to the beginning of this thread to find some of PJ’s posts, and then looked him up. I am amazed as to how many people have been banned (or is now a guest because they deleted their profile) . In one of his threads. Almost everyone who responded was banned.. Just nuts!!
The funny truth....many of those that ended up in that sleeply little town called Bannville have been called out numerous times for their double standards.....and the truth....they all peddled a self saving, law keeping, sinless perfectionist, Pharisee type losable salvation based upkn some sort of working for, baptismal regenerstional dogma.....

I have no problem engaging honest people in a decent way, but some on here need to be raked over the coals for the double standardized hypocrisy.....
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,204
4,161
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I live in the high desert above Los Angeles, the only snow where we live is in the mountains which are about 1hour drive to get to -- never seen a snowmobile in person only on TV shows about Alaska. Yea its pretty boring here without snow I know.....:)
Los Angeles, CA - Thursday 9:00 AM Cloudy
5613°F°F | °C Precipitation: 0% Humidity: 77%Wind: 2 mph

OH MY! SO GOD FINALLY DROPPED THEM STRAIGHT INTO HELL- - - - 5613°F.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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It includes the people of Israel, but it doesn't stop there (Romans 11:11-12, 25-31). The special gifts of God, his election, justification, adoption, and in particular effectual calling (Romans 5:15-18; 6:23; Romans 8:29-39) are irrevocable.
Amen.......the definite article "the" points to ALL GIFTS AND CALLINGS of God.....his call to salvation and GIFT of eternal life and faith are INCLUDED within that grouping......blows my mind how some will disassociate truth from truth for the sake of holding to a false dogma.....nuts!!
 
Dec 12, 2013
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I live in the high desert above Los Angeles, the only snow where we live is in the mountains which are about 1hour drive to get to -- never seen a snowmobile in person only on TV shows about Alaska. Yea its pretty boring here without snow I know.....:)
Los Angeles, CA - Thursday 9:00 AM Cloudy
5613°F°F | °C Precipitation: 0% Humidity: 77%Wind: 2 mph
I usually fly through Dallas on the way to and fro Australia....this time on the way back I get to see the freak show in LAX......haha 7th of April.....oh yayayyayay hah
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Right now. I just want sunny warm weather. At my age, I can’t hanle the cold like I used too!!
I will mentally send you the Sun and 90 degree temps today in AU....hour west of Sydney....Castlereagh AU......between Richmond and Penrith.....hahah Google earth it...850 Castleraegh ;) hahahh
 
Dec 12, 2013
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I keep hearing saved by grace through faith, maintained by works. Certain people seem to believe that Christ merely "initially" saved them and now it's up to them to pull themselves up by their own bootstraps and do the rest.
No genuine faith or hope in that drivelistic false message......
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Ephesians 2:8-10
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

Good works prepared before we came to faith.
Not works that save us but works as result of faith.
And yes we will walk in them.
Amen migo....and no one has ever denied that...we just flat deny the self saving, losable salvation that must be maintained by self effort, law keeping, commandment obedience and or works on our part.......
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,201
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I keep hearing saved by grace through faith, maintained by works. Certain people seem to believe that Christ merely "initially" saved them and now it's up to them to pull themselves up by their own bootstraps and do the rest.
A simple answer to this, is the believer is learning How let Jesus's love flow free in their life.
God overwhelms, He overcomes, He is victorious, He takes what we think is a problem and shows us the shores
of heaven which tower above it.

The image you have is of a powerless God, and a heart that does not embrace or see a God of no limits.
When you have no reality or Holy Spirit there is only failure or attempted success through self effort.
Until the Lord arrives.

A life without God is a life alone.
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,201
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Imagination. God is not a God of defeat and emptiness. If you are defeated and empty, search for the Lord,
and He will find you. Believe in the cross and its victory, and it will be yours to walk in.

Feelings set our expectations. Oh that car I wish I had, oh that woman I wish I had married, oh that job
I should have got, oh that house my neighbour has that I will take...... all these come from our hearts
focused on the world and its delusions, as if anybody cares when you get it, nothing changes.

But see the Lord of all come and wash you feet, bend down and spend time listening to you and your needs.
That is powerful and meaningful. The creator is listening, you can ask Him to make His way plain and He will.

Why is it peoples expectations and realities are so low? Because of the company they keep. Do they mix
with the Lord most High, or just with earthly ambitions and worldly pleasures. Not suprisingly nothing really
adds up in loser street.
 

Argueless

Active member
Oct 21, 2018
658
161
43
Keep reading. Romans 9:6 But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel, 7 nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but, “In Isaac your seed shall be called.” 8 That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed. 9 For this is the word of promise: “At this time I will come and Sarah shall have a son.” 10 And not only this, but when Rebecca also had conceived by one man, even by our father Isaac 11 (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls).

So once again, it includes the people of Israel, but it doesn't stop there (Romans 11:11-12, 25-31). The special gifts of God, his election, justification, adoption, and in particular effectual calling (Romans 3:24-28; 5:1, 15-18; 6:23; 8:15,23, 29-39; 9:11; Ephesians 1:5; 1 Thessalonians 1:4 etc..) are irrevocable, but you have your agenda to uphold.

Yes, God does give and we receive and God is not an Indian giver. Believers are sealed until the redemption of the purchased possession/unto the day of redemption (Ephesians 1:13-14; 4:30) :)

The Jews were in the olive tree to begin with because they were the "natural branches" and not because they were all saved. Because of their unbelief and hard hearts God removed His gracious hand from them as a people overall and broke them off from His goodness (but only for a time after which they will be restored). We Gentiles have now been grafted into God's goodness and are the recipients of His blessings. Paul's warning is that we should not get arrogant because we might lose the goodness and blessings of God just like the Jews lost the goodness and blessings of God.

Now please show us using scripture where God's gifts, his election, justification, adoption, and in particular effectual calling (Romans 3:24-28; 5:1, 15-18; 6:23; 8:15,23, 29-39; 9:11; Ephesians 1:5; 1 Thessalonians 1:4 etc..) are irrevocable. :whistle:

So which GIFTS ARE irrevocable and which GIFTS are NOT irrevocable, according to your agenda? Please show us using scripture.

He may just be tired of wasting his time beating a dead horse. He probably knows that regardless of what scripture he quotes to make his case, you will just explain it away. Do you believe that salvation is a gift? Do you believe that salvation is probation? Do you believe that eternal life is eternal or temporary? Do you believe that Jesus is the door or a revolving door?

Of course you disagree with my remarks because you are blinded by your own personal agenda to attack the OSAS doctrine and drag people onto that roller coaster ride of fear and bondage to IN-security. The same roller coaster ride that I was on, prior to my conversion, while still attending the Roman Catholic church several years ago. You know what they say. Misery loves company. :cautious:
So where does it say that it's IRREVOCABLE? Before you throw a lot of questions in response to my question and request of a scripture stating that SALVATION IS A GIFT IRREVOCABLY GIVEN...Pls just get it straight so that we won't be wasting our time on this sickening roller coaster ride.

JUST SHOW ME the verse or scripture where it says " SALVATION IS A GIFT THAT WAS IRREVOCABLY GIVEN..." then i'll go rest my case.

No one can snatch them out of the Father's hand and I agree to whatever was written to teach us and esp God's Words.

We are in God's hand like a FREE bird that can FREELY fly away if it wishes to. No one can snatch us away from the Father's hand as long as we REMAIN OR ABIDE IN HIM and STAND FIRM TO THE END.


The itsy TWISTY spider...

...For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. THEY ARE GODLESS MEN, WHO CHANGE THE GRACE OF OF OUR GOD INTO A LICENSE FOR IMMORALITY and DENY Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord. Jude 1:4

...They claim to know God, but by THEIR ACTIONS they DENY Him. They are detestable, DISOBEDIENT and UNFIT for doing anything good. Titus 1:16

Look who's talking about HONESTY.

...We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is A LIAR, AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM. But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did. 1 John 2:3-6

Do you not CALL EVIL GOOD and GOOD EVIL? (Isaiah 5:20-24)

Is it RIGHT to OBEY God? Is it GOOD or is it WRONG and EVIL? If it is RIGHT and GOOD, why do you call those who promote OBEDIENCE TO GOD as FALSE or peddlers of a FALSE GOSPEL?

Do you not insult and call the views of those who promote OBEDIENCE to God as IDIOTIC?(I'm referring to dcon)

It's funny how your group can say that only genuine believers would OBEY God and those who promote OBEDIENCE to God are LOST, UNBELIEVERS, FALSE, DECEIVER, NOT SAVED TO BEGIN WITH and many other discriminating NEGATIVE remarks.

And when you are called out, you will accuse them of SLANDER and start bullying those who disagree with you to the point of getting them banned to SUPPRESS THE TRUTH which no NOSAS ever did.

But scriptures fortold of these kind of people and behaviour.

.. Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men: “See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones to judge everyone, and to convict all the ungodly of all the ungodly acts they have done in the ungodly way, and of all the harsh words ungodly sinners have spoken against him.” These men are grumblers and faultfinders; they follow their own evil desires; they boast about themselves and flatter others for their own advantage. But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold. They said to you, “In the last times there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly desires.” These are the men who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit. Jude 1:14-19

...If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain. 1 Timothy 6:3-5

...Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. HE WHO DOES WHAT IS RIGHT IS RIGHTEOUS, just as he is righteous. He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work.

IS IT RIGHT TO OBEY GOD or not?

Are you an instrument of God's righteousness or do you just BELIEVE and let God do everything for you?

Who now is the LORD, you?...and who is your servant, GOD?

....“You have said harsh things against me,” says the Lord. “Yet you ask, ‘What have we said against you?’ “You have said, ‘IT IS FUTILE TO SERVE GOD. What did we gain by CARRYING OUT HIS REQUIREMENTS and going about like mourners before the Lord Almighty? But now we call the arrogant blessed. Certainly the evildoers prosper, and even those who challenge God escape.’” Then THOSE WHO FEARED THE LORD talked with each other, and the Lord listened and heard. A scroll of remembrance was written in his presence concerning those who feared the Lord and honored his name. “They will be mine,” says the Lord Almighty, “in the day when I make up my treasured possession. I WILL SPARE THEM, just as in compassion a man spares HIS SON WHO SERVES HIM. And you will again see the DISTINCTION between the RIGHTEOUS and the WICKED, between those who SERVE GOD and those who do not. Malachi 3:13-18

...God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him WE MIGHT BECOME THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD. 2 Corinthians 5:21[

...I have written you quite boldly on some points, as if to remind you of them again, because of the grace God gave me to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles with the priestly duty of proclaiming the gospel of God, so that the Gentiles might become an offering acceptable to God, sanctified by the Holy Spirit. Therefore I glory in Christ Jesus in my service to God. I will not venture to speak of anything except what Christ has accomplished through me in LEADING THE GENTILES TO OBEY GOD BY WHAT I HAVE SAID AND DONE— Romans 15:15-18
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,260
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Going to disobey my own rule this one time, to make a point

This is exactly the type of thing Peter Jens would say..

"It is time to stop enabling this person. And ignore him,"
And thank you E-g for breaking your rule because we need to hear more voices like yours who are against the counterfeit gospel of "FollowHisSteps aka Peter Jens", his fake gospel is absolutely double minded and hypocritical. When he criticizes us to not judge, he fills his post with judgement's against everyone.

FollowHisSteps aka PeterJens or whoever you are your status here is still "Banned" please go and reconcile yourself to God and the Administration here for breaking "forum bylaws" yes they have rules and company bylaws and you broke their rule at some point and as such you were banned from membership.