At what point is killing ok?

Deade · Mar 19, 2019

Death Penalty

I shall probably alienate many Christians as I delve deeper into this chapter, dealing with life and death issues. God speaking to ancient Israel, covers what He expects from government claiming belief in Him. Consider the following: “If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the Lord thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the Lord thy God, in transgressing His covenant, and hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded; and it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and enquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel: Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die. At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he that is worthy of death be put to death; but at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death. The hands of the witnesses shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterward the hands of all the people. So thou shalt put the evil away from among you” (Deuteronomy 17:2-7).

Does God believe in the death penalty? It appears so. When Christ came with the New Testament, He was addressing us on a personal level; that is what the New Testament is about. It was the Word of God, pre-Christ, that was delivering the statutes and laws to the ancient Israelites.

When the apostle Steven was about to be martyred, he was telling the Pharisees about Christ. “This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, a prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; Him shall ye hear. This is He, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sinai [also see Horeb], and with our fathers: Who received the lively oracles to give unto us” (Acts 7:37,38).

Notice that the pre-incarnate Christ was the One interacting with ancient Israel. Read also John 1:1-10. If you think Jesus is thinking differently now, consider: “Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and today, and for ever” (Hebrews 13:8).

Deade · Mar 19, 2019

National Duty

What about military service? Most Christians would say don’t serve; or if you do enlist, do so as a conscientious objector so as not to serve in battle. I also thought that would be my case, as I could easily give my life for my beliefs. Then the Lord asked me to think of certain scenarios. Yes, God will talk to you if you are deep in meditation and prayer. When He got to the one about self defense of my household, He said my house was taken over by terrorists; and they were sure to tie up the males to watch as the females (wives and daughters) were raped and killed. Then the males would be killed. If I knew this beforehand, would I do something? I told the Lord that He would have to forgive me; but I would try to stop it from happening—even if it meant deadly force. Then the Lord told me that it would be okay, but I was being a hypocrite. If I could defend my family, I could also defend my country and/or community. I deducted that God looks at this life as more temporal, and life and death being less important than most of us believe.

We know that David, in ancient Judah, was close to God and knew His laws and statutes. Do you think that one of David’s soldiers could have claimed conscientious objector? I think not! Remember, David was dealing with the pre-incarnate Jesus Christ, just as all the ancient patriarchs were. Jesus also instructed the ancient Israelites to kill off all the inhabitants of the land they were to possess. Don’t misunderstand me, war is awful and gruesome and should be completely outlawed. In a perfect world, war would be unnecessary—this isn’t a perfect world. I believe if a soldier is acting on orders that he carries out in a humane fashion, he can stand before God blameless. All war will cause some innocent civilians to be killed. God does not smile on this, but it is a fact of life. Thankfully, when God establishes the kingdom of God here on earth, this will all be over and done.

Concerning war, what is this saying to a nation founded mostly on Christian principles, like the United States of America? It means that we hold ourselves to a higher standard than most nations. As pointed out earlier, Satan and his demons will have a big part in how we conduct business; but we Christians will be a major counter balance holding off these evil influences. We must have realistic expectations though. As more people are represented in any given area, evil will find its way in. Remember, this world system is not ours. It was prophesied that the world, in the last days, would become more and more evil. We Americans have a lot of pride to deal with. I have searched the scriptures to see if they had anything good to say about pride—they do not. We think God would approve of national, school or familial pride. Think about it. Pride requires us comparing or putting down someone—or something—else. We should embrace honor rather than pride. Do your best in everything you do—that is honorable.

memyselfi · Mar 19, 2019

Nessadon said:

G-d NEVER said that we shall not kill... He said we shall not murder!!! YOU HAVE MISS QUOTED SCRIPTURE!!!!!

If someone breaks into your house and has a gun on you but you have a gun too, can you shoot him/her fist? Even not a death shot but they died....

If your in battle because you are a marine can you kill? … read the Bible... King David...

Great question the death penalty… People pay for sins in this life and the life to come... If they get saved they will still go to heaven but must pay for sins in this life... DEATH PENALTY IS FOR MURDER!!!!

Nehemiah6 · Mar 19, 2019

Nessadon said:

There is a huge difference between (1) premeditated murder (a sin and a crime), (2) the administration of justice through the death penalty (approved by God), and (3) defense of a country through an army (not disallowed by God, and Christ Himself will go to war at His second coming).

THE DEATH PENALTY (ROMANS 13)
1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
5 Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.

CHRIST WITH HIS ARMIES OF SAINTS AND ANGELS (REVELATION 19)
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war...
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean...
17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

Nessadon · Mar 20, 2019

obedienttogod said:

Yeshua told us to obey the law of the land (the governing council). The laws of our land are no speeding, no killing, no jay-walking, etc. But, another law of the land is being in the military. Here, you are obeying the Law of Land, by obeying the Governing Council in the ACT of war, defending your homeland borders, being sent off to protect your Allies. This is a place where literally millions of people can lose their lives by the Act of Killing in a matter of days, minutes, a single moment. This is still following the Laws of the Land by obeying the Governing Council that made the decision to either create war, become a part of war, or to help your Allies during war.

Now, is it really OK by God that war (a creation of men in power that costs the lives of many for the single purpose of being victorious and most powerful) causes millions of people to die?

Someone will be always be held accountable for causing war that leads to unnecessary murders. But as a member of the military under the regime of a Governing Council (Laws of the Land), technically, anyone that I would happen to end their life is held against those who created the war. Spiritually and then emotionally because you are connected to God, you will condemn yourself for being the instrument that ended those lives. God clearly knows you were obeying orders (Laws of the Land), but He works in such a personal way, He makes it known to you, those are also lives that He died for. And giving that burden to God, is very essential, to be able to live day after day in the Knowledge and Understanding of God's WORD. Especially, understanding your actions under the Laws of the Land, will haunt you, and should haunt those who created the war. They will haunt you, until you are Free and Able to give it over to God.

Even though the burden seems to fall upon you, you were under the Law of the Land. You are free as long as your actions were according to the principles of war and life/death. God does not hold it against you. But you must give it over to God.

I really like the way you put this. thanks for you insight.

memyselfi · Mar 20, 2019

The end of the human race is death in Hell or life in Heaven... are We Written in the Lambs Book of Life or Not!?! The first murder was Kane vs. Able and G-d said his blood cries out. Kane was jealous of Able and the BLOOD of the innocent killed by murder still cries out to this day. G-d mad a place for the people that killed someone if the ax head accidently flew off the ax handle it was a city of refuge... G-d told King David he could not build the temple because too much blood was o his hands, but He said his son could. There are always consequences in this life for causing death... today our boys/girls suffer from PTSD... This is just the natural law of life... that G-d gave us...

But murder... it is on a completely different level that G-d gave the death penalty for. If someone refuses to get saved facing death in the natural will they ever get saved? … Especially in America when they have 20 years o death row!?!

SunnySky · Mar 20, 2019

The New Testament gives no clear mandate for capital punishment...it’s complicated.

There was obviously different punishment in the Old Testament, but Christ fulfilled that law. Jesus clearly rebukes stoning the woman...a story most of us know and can use as an argument against the death penalty. But she wasn’t a murderer either...she was in adultery. The law of Moses commanded them to stone such an offense— but Jesus didn’t come to live by the mosaic law.

Now consider the NT—apostle Paul acknowledges that wielding ‘the sword’ is an legitimate right of the government. He also says in Acts 25:11, "If I am a wrongdoer, and have committed anything worthy of death, I do not refuse to die; but if none of these things is true of which these men accuse me, no one can hand me over to them." He confirms and accepts the act of capital punishment.

Romans 13:1-4, "Let every person be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God.

2 Therefore he who resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves. 3 For rulers are not a cause of fear for good behavior, but for evil. Do you want to have no fear of authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same; 4 for it is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath upon the one who practices evil."

When God wants to change something from the old law, to the new, he says it. God established capital punishment in his word. He loves, he has mercy....he has wrath as well.

We shouldn’t rejoice in the death penalty. We should love and pray for everyone. But we shouldn’t fight against the governments rights to execute punishment of the most evil crimes.

My opinions, and translations only. I’m in no way debating only answering the question in my opinion.

Magenta · Mar 20, 2019

Miri said:

The movie was called Hacksaw Ridge. Army Medic Desmond Doss (portrayed by Andrew Garfield) was a devout Seventh-day Adventist, and granted conscientious objector status during the second world war. The actual Battle of Hacksaw Ridge in the Battle of Okinawa of May 1945 is the main part of the movie, where he single-handedly rescued and lowered down (not carried down) the wounded from the day's battle to the men below. The movie won two Oscars (film editing, and sound mixing).

JaumeJ · Mar 20, 2019

The OT HAS "ENSAMPLES" FOR US TO LEARN BY, not necessarily to adhere to.

SIMON55 · Mar 20, 2019

Wars are prophecied by God He has used them to establish the nations up to 1800 read Daniel
Roman Emperor Constantine saw a vision from God telling him in the sign of the CROSS he must conquer......That's how the RCC beast came to power the mixing of the Iron and Clay 1260 years Church State power of the Dark ages prophecied by Daniel
Justinian Decree 538 -1798 Arrest of Pope by Napoleon
God wrote the History of the earth in the Bible Human history has to match prophecy because it is predestination and predetermination thorough study of history and prophecy reproves it all as Gods will to serve his purposes.
But not all wars are or were prophecied. Some are started by Global central Banking.

obedienttogod · Mar 20, 2019

SIMON55 said:

Even though we know these people were descendants of the fallen angels, God has on several times, ordered the complete annihilation of a particular people. He even hardened the heart of Pharaoh that led to his drowning with his military. The most ruthless dictator I have ever read, and there are some that are flat out monsters for being a human, would be God. God has been ruthless. From wiping out nations, to everyone connected to Adam's world but Noah and his families, God has been the leader of men that has ordered to wipe specific people off the face of the earth. Grant it, a couple were solely to defeat the work of the Adversary, but some were just so other nations would know who Yahweh was, the High God, the Living God, the only God who can keep his WORD!! And many times, God's WORD wiped out the enemy, literally..

SIMON55 · Mar 20, 2019

obedienttogod said:

This is true but you know he created it all and us all so its his show and he owns it all!!
The hilarious part is the ignorant people you find on here that think Jesus is a pussy willow panzy picker.
They will be a little suprised when The Lion of Judah returns wearing armour and leading an army and his robe skirt is soaked with blood.
Isaiah 63

obedienttogod · Mar 20, 2019

SIMON55 said:

Had to stop laughing in order to agree with your assessments. I've never understood the (Jesus) (in a form of a red headed step child), meek, weak, pathetic, broken.

The real Yeshua is like the person with a set of testi's hanging off of his pick-up's hitch mount, just a swinging like all get out as Christ goes muddin all over creation while smacking the enemy around like paper dolls

Blik · Mar 20, 2019

Nessadon said:

In the OT there were holy wars. God protected his people from evil and got rid of the evil sometimes ordering man to do the killing. Always it was to protect others from people who could not be kept from being killers in any other way and the purpose was to save lives, not to get rid of them. In those days there were ways for God to speak directly with humans, that is not so today. They had a way of finding answers to questions through the breatplates of the priests, the Uriim and Thummim. However we are asked to protect anyone whose life is threatened.

If someone has murdered and there is testimony by someone who saw them do it so it is certain they are guilty, the law is to kill that person, again to protect others from a killer. If the person causes an innocent man to be killed, that person also is a killer who should be gotten rid of so he cannot kill again. Gen 9: 6 “Whoever sheds human blood, by humans shall their blood be shed; for in the image of God has God made mankind. This is not to be done by an individual but by government orders.

Lanolin · Mar 20, 2019

CharliRenee said:

Jesus meant his OWN life not someone elses, so to try and use that as justification for killing someone is competely opposite of what Jesus meant! Did Jesus kill anyone? Nope. did Jesus lay down his own life..yes! He was killed by others.

Some people just dont have the logic to figure that out methinks.

Lanolin · Mar 20, 2019

All of the apostles were killed, they were maytred. They did not kill anyone.

This is what sets apart a believer, a christian, from a non believer, non believer think its ok to kill.

Venegeance is mine, says the Lord and I will repay. Not us. We dont fight with carnal weapons.
Paul when he was saul killed, but once he was converted, he didnt kill anyone.
Moses killed an egyptian, but God got hold of him too, and just sent the ten plagues and got all the isrelites out of egypt. They didnt have to kill them. GOd did it.

GOd was going to drive out the cannaanites by hornets, but since israelites disobeyed..well they did end up havng to kill them. But that was not the original plan. Many times God gave the israelites victory with his mighty spirit. The commandmant given thou shalt not kill was meant for the israelites for each other. I dont think it pertained to anyone outside, cos obviously, David for example had to kill Goliath, and at various times there was a death penalty prescribed for adulterers among their own peopleetc. although the bible does say 'put to death' rather than 'kill'. So there is a difference, but that's instances when they disobeyed Him.

As new testament christians though, under a new convenant, paid for by Jesus blood, who died for all, there isnt any need for more killing...his sacrifice was it. If we can fnd forgiveness through Jesus and his blood covers our sins then what need for more bloodshed? None whatsoever.

And this forgiveness is avialable to all mankind, if we avial ourselves of it. This is why everyone needs Jesus in their lives.

SIMON55 · Mar 20, 2019

Lanolin said:

Trying to make a liar out of Jesus are you ?

If it's a TRUE principle
ITS TRUE FOR ALL!!!
FREEDOM ISNT FREE
ITS BOUGHT WITH LIFE
O
IF YOU WONT DEFEND IT
YOU DONT DESERVE IT!!!
USA Establushed by God
If you aren't a good steward
THEN GET OUT!!!

And learn how to read Jesus will be KILLIN
WEARING ARMOR LEADING AN ARMY AND KILLING
START WITH ISAIAH 63 WHERE HE IS COVERED WITH BLOOD!
clown

SIMON55 · Mar 20, 2019

Lanolin said:

All of the apostles were killed, they were maytred. They did not kill anyone.

This is what sets apart a believer, a christian, from a non believer, non believer think its ok to kill.

Venegeance is mine, says the Lord and I will repay. Not us. We dont fight with carnal weapons.
Paul when he was saul killed, but once he was converted, he didnt kill anyone.
Moses killed an egyptian, but God got hold of him too, and just sent the ten plagues and got all the isrelites out of egypt. They didnt have to kill them. GOd did it.

GOd was going to drive out the cannaanites by hornets, but since israelites disobeyed..well they did end up havng to kill them. But that was not the original plan. Many times God gave the israelites victory with his mighty spirit. The commandmant given thou shalt not kill was meant for the israelites for each other. I dont think it pertained to anyone outside, cos obviously, David for example had to kill Goliath, and at various times there was a death penalty prescribed for adulterers among their own peopleetc. although the bible does say 'put to death' rather than 'kill'. So there is a difference, but that's instances when they disobeyed Him.

As new testament christians though, under a new convenant, paid for by Jesus blood, who died for all, there isnt any need for more killing...his sacrifice was it. If we can fnd forgiveness through Jesus and his blood covers our sins then what need for more bloodshed? None whatsoever.

And this forgiveness is avialable to all mankind, if we avial ourselves of it. This is why everyone needs Jesus in their lives.

THE LAW OF JUSTIFIABLE HOMICIDE HAS BEEN IN PLACE FOR THREE THOUSAND YEARS
YOU ARE THE ONE OPPOSING GODS LAW

Adstar · Mar 20, 2019

TheLearner said:

Romans 13 speaks of wordly Authority that has the power to punish and if they will execute wrogdoers.. It is not talking about Christians doing it... Who was in Authority when Paul revealed Romans 13 ? thats right Pagan Roman people where placed in Authrotiy over the entire Mediteranian.. No worldly power is allowed to exist in this world unless God allows them to have Authority.. And yes God has and does allow unGodly Authorities to rule over men..

Indeed satan was given Authority over Job within limitations just as he is given Authority over the kings of the world with the limitations set by God.. Why do you think Paul told people in 1 Corinthians 5 to hand a sexual deviant who was engaged in sexual relations with his fathers wife over to "satan" to be executed "destruction of the flesh" ?

1 Corinthians 5: KJV
1 "It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father’s wife. {2} And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you. {3} For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, {4} In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, {5} To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus."

Paul is identifying the current worldly power of His time as being of satan.. What did satan offer Jesus when he tempted Him in the desert ?

Matthew 4: KJV
8 "Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; {9} And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me. {10} Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve."

Jesus rejected satans offer but note Jesus never replied with those kingdoms are not yours to give..

TheLearner · Mar 20, 2019

Exodus 15:3

"The LORD is a warrior; The LORD is His name.

At what point is killing ok?

Called of God

Called of God

Junior Member

Senior Member

New member

Junior Member

New member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Active member

obedienttogod

Guest

Active member

obedienttogod

Guest

Senior Member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Active member

Active member

Senior Member

Well-known member