The house of Israel

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ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
1,213
113
#41
FGC,

You wanted to know the honest truth about "the house of Israel", not the DISHONEST REINTERPRETATIONS of men. Now you have taken Roman 10:1 and turned it on its head in order to fit your theology, rather than making your theology conform to the Word of God.

Who is Paul talking about in Romans 10:1?

The Jews who rejected Christ. "That they might be saved" means exactly what it says. That the might be saved from Hell, from damnation, from eternal separation from God. NOT "saved here in the world" (which means absolutely nothing).

How do we know that these are the unsaved Jews who were attempting to establish their own righteousness through the deeds of the Law?

1. ...they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge....

2. ...[they are] going about to establish their own righteousness...

3. ...they being ignorant of God's righteousness...

4. [they] have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God...

And because this did not fit your theology you called them *spiritual Israel* when they are the EXACT OPPOSITE.

So now you have to sit down with yourself and make a MAJOR DECISION. Will you believe God regardless of all your indoctrination, and throw away all that theological baggage, or will you wilfully reject what Scripture says and go on promoting false doctrines?
All scripture is given by inspiration of God. All scripture must harmonize and not contradict. Your interpretation of Romans 10 will not harmonize with 1 Cor 2:14, which explains that the natural man cannot discern spiritual things, like worshiping a spiritual God, and having a zeal of God. Plus many more scriptures that will contradict with your interpretation of the natural man's ability to understand spiritual things.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
1,213
113
#42
Nah, I just am not wasting my time here with you on this is all. I understand the dynamics rather well. Interesting enough, this is a hot topic in most Christian based Universities. I just do not see the reasoning for putting the effort in, when you aren't grasping the simple context of God's Endless Mercy. Which covet's Israel, not denies her nor forsakes her. If ultimately God was going to push Israel aside for the Gentiles, He would not have wasted His time having His Disciple (Peter) be in charge to bring the Gospel to the Jews. James (1/2 bro of Yeshua) even created a Council. Here they decided what the Gentiles needed to do to keep in the fold.

God sure invested time into many Jews to do His bidding for Him to spread the Gospel (to both Jew/Gentile). If He was completely done with Israel, there would be NO JEW DISCIPLES or APOSTLE'S. And yet, Yeshua drove Paul to teach both the Jew and Gentile.

There is way too much trying to save Jewish souls going on in the Book of Acts to think God actually put Israel aside.
You evidently do not understand the difference in natural Israel and spiritual Israel (Jacob"s descendants as the elect of God) God's elect encompasses people from every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation (Rev 5:9).
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
#43
FGC,

You wanted to know the honest truth about "the house of Israel", not the DISHONEST REINTERPRETATIONS of men. Now you have taken Roman 10:1 and turned it on its head in order to fit your theology, rather than making your theology conform to the Word of God.

Who is Paul talking about in Romans 10:1?

The Jews who rejected Christ. "That they might be saved" means exactly what it says. That the might be saved from Hell, from damnation, from eternal separation from God. NOT "saved here in the world" (which means absolutely nothing).

How do we know that these are the unsaved Jews who were attempting to establish their own righteousness through the deeds of the Law?

1. ...they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge....

2. ...[they are] going about to establish their own righteousness...

3. ...they being ignorant of God's righteousness...

4. [they] have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God...

And because this did not fit your theology you called them *spiritual Israel* when they are the EXACT OPPOSITE.

So now you have to sit down with yourself and make a MAJOR DECISION. Will you believe God regardless of all your indoctrination, and throw away all that theological baggage, or will you wilfully reject what Scripture says and go on promoting false doctrines?
It would have to first be distinguished as to which Israel.(two kinds)? The born again Israel that does have the Spirit of Christ, the Holy Spirit of God as the power in them not of them, as a inward Jew in respect to the things not seen. Or the other, a outward Jew used to represent unbelief (no faith). Israel in name but not born again. They say the are inward Jews born again but prove only to be a outward Jew in respect to what the eyes see (the temporal)

Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.REVELATION 3

There are those today that have a hope in we will worship at their feet as the things seen(outward Jew) as that standing in the Holy place of God not seen. The bible calls that the abomination of desicrations. We rather walk by faith, not after the flesh of any nation .
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
113
#44
Grandpa, It is hard to believe that I have found someone that interprets the scriptures so closely to how I interpret them. Do you believe that the scriptures teach that there are different applications of salvation, one being an eternal deliverance and that they signify several deliverance's we receive as we live here in this world?
I'm not really sure about your wording. But I think I am in agreement.

We receive Salvation and then we are also Delivered from certain lifelong sins/problems that had plagued us most of our lives.

I view these as strongholds of the enemy that the Lord takes down when we become His.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
1,213
113
#45
I'm not really sure about your wording. But I think I am in agreement.

We receive Salvation and then we are also Delivered from certain lifelong sins/problems that had plagued us most of our lives.

I view these as strongholds of the enemy that the Lord takes down when we become His.
It sound like you understand what I am talking about. I believe the scriptures to teach that Jesus secured eternal deliverance for all of his elect on the cross. He instructs his preachers that are in the world today to feed his sheep (his regenerated elect) the instructions (inspired bible) as to how God wants them to live their lives here on earth and to preach to them that Jesus Christ has saved them eternally. They are not to preach to the non-elect, because they do not have ears to hear. The preaching of the gospel is not to save souls eternally (Christ has already accomplished that on the cross) but to deliver (save) his sheep from a lack of knowledge about the gospel.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
1,213
113
#46
I'm not really sure about your wording. But I think I am in agreement.

We receive Salvation and then we are also Delivered from certain lifelong sins/problems that had plagued us most of our lives.

I view these as strongholds of the enemy that the Lord takes down when we become His.
This is why Jesus instructed his apostles to go and preach unto "the lost sheep (regenerated elect) of the (spiritual) house of Israel (the offspring of Jacob, the elect).
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
113
#47
The LAW was designed to kill, but God's Mercy would be enough until the Messiah, who fulfilled the Endless Mercy upon the Hebrew Heritage!!
Whenever a poster states that the law was only designed to kill I know that poster has not studied scripture enough to interpret correctly. Sin kills, the law only gives what is sinful and what is righteous living. However it is correct that God is and always will be faithful to the Jews as we are told in Hebrews.
 

Melach

Well-known member
Mar 28, 2019
2,057
1,526
113
#48
Romans 9:6-11
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sarah shall have a son.

10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)

Galatians 3:6-7
6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

Galatians 3:28-29
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.


Who is Israel? The children of Abraham.

Who are the children of Abraham? The children of God.

Who are the children of God? Neither jew nor greek, bond nor free, male or female. All who are Christs are the children of God.


Israel has always been the children of God and the children of God have always been Israel. But only those who are of Faith like Abraham are the true children. Not of the flesh like 99.99% of people mistakenly think.
amen. i believe as you do in this message.

i hope God opens up the hearts and minds of all who read that. i hope we all see it so we can be one.

God has one people, not two. the people of faith, from every tongue, tribe and nation.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,778
113
#49
Whenever a poster states that the law was only designed to kill I know that poster has not studied scripture enough to interpret correctly.
That's correct. On one hand the Law (the Ten Commandments) "kills" in that in renders all men guilty before God, and fit for the death penalty (the first and second deaths).

On the other hand, the Law (the Ten Commandments) is God's eternal standard of holiness and righteousness. The Law of Love is embedded in the Ten Commandments. Therefore walking in the Spirit means strict obedience to those commandments.
 

FlyingDove

Senior Member
Dec 27, 2017
1,274
436
83
#50
What is the House of Israel? We understand that the Nation of Israel was God's favored nation in the old testament and that all Israel was not of Israel. God denounced the nation of Israel due to their unfaithfulness and gave it to the Gentiles. The house of Israel, which seems to be representative of God's elect, because God changed Jacob's name to be called no more Jacob, but to be called Israel (Gen 32:28). I am asking for the help and input from the members of this forum about this concept, sense I have not done an in-depth study on this concept. God choose Jacob over Esau to show that his elect might stand. God instructed his apostles to go preach to the "lost sheep" of "the house of Israel, which is Jacob (God's elect). If they are sheep, then they have already been given eternal life, but they do not know that the "kingdom of heaven" (Christ's church) is at hand. It would seem to me that when the scriptures talk about Israel, they are referring to Jacob who is representative of God's elect. Isaiah 46:3 - Hearken unto me, O house of Jacob, and all the remnant of the house of Israel, which are borne by me from the belly, which are carried from the womb: Heb 8:10 - For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel (Jacob), after those days sayeth the Lord, I will put my laws into their minds, and write them in their hearts; and I will be unto them a God, and they shall be unto me a people. Awaiting your input.
1st; I attempted to shed some historical light on the first question in the OP: QUOTE: """What is the House of Israel"""?

2ndly; Your stated opinion: QUOTE """God denounced the nation of Israel due to their unfaithfulness and gave it to the Gentiles""". This notion that God has given gentiles, Israels promises, better yet THEIR ETERNAL COVENANT PROMISES. Is scripturally baseless!

3rdly; On the elect: QUOTE """I have not done an in-depth study on this concept""". Your unscriptural statement as to who the elect are proves, you haven't studied this at all. Every person that by/thru FAITH accepted/trusted God & his promise of a Messiah/Redeemer is God's elect. Example: 400 plus years before God sets apart/chooses a Nation of people (Israel). Abram/Abraham thru FAITH is a chosen/elect.

Abraham names the place: Jehovahjireh
Gen 22:14 And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovahjireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the LORD it shall be seen.
(NOTE: Jehovahjireh means = The Lord Will Provide. Ok, PROVIDE what? A SACRIFICE! The promised seed/Christ is = The SACRIFICE/Atonement!)

Hebrews adds additional context here:
Hebrews 11:19 Accounting (believing) that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead;
(NOTE: Abraham BELIEVED God could raise Isaac from the grave. We the Spiritually Indwelt placed our FAITH/BELIEVE Christ death is a sacrificial atonement & BELIEVE Jesus ROSE on day 3)

In the OP you posted this; QUOTE: """God instructed his apostles to go preach to the "lost sheep" of "the house of Israel, which is Jacob (God's elect)""". This statement makes NO sense! Are Jacobs offspring the ELECT? Or are some of them LOST?

You post Heb 8:10 to build a case for some of your unscriptural bloviation. If you post Heb 8:8 BOTH houses are mentioned. That alone destroys your commentary. Not to mention the house of Judah is also part of Jacob. GEEZZZ!

Your OP states; QUOTE: """but they do not know that the "kingdom of heaven (Christ's church) is at hand""". I'll explain your ERROR here. In my reply to your baseless observation of my spiritual awareness you posted in post #34 within this thread.

Kingdom of God (SPIRITUAL) vs Kingdom of Heaven (PHYSICAL)

Throughout scripture two kingdoms: physical & spiritual are revealed.

Cain physical, Abel spiritual
Ishmael physical, Isaac spiritual (See Gal 4:22-31)
Esau physical, Jacob spiritual
Israel physical, Body of Christ/Church spiritual
Adam physical, Christ Spiritual (1 Cor 15:45)

1 Corinthians 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam (Jesus Christ) was made a quickening spirit

Jesus preached the Gospel of the kingdom, yet spoke about both. KJV has reference to "Kingdom of Heaven" 31 times in Matt. I found reference to "Kingdom of God" 45 time in the 4 gospels.

If Jewish leadership had excepted their Messiah. They could have received both. And one day soon, they will again have the opportunity.

The Kingdom of God is SPIRITUAL! Not physical:
Lk 17:21 (B) Jesus said; Behold, "the kingdom of God is within you"
(NOTE: This is a spirit promise that began in Acts 2:4. At Pentecost believers are INDWELT via the outpouring of the Holy Spirit "the kingdom of God is WITHIN YOU")

Mat 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you
(NOTE: Righteous is abtained thru faith in Christ's sin atoning sacrifice & sealed by the indewlling Holy Spirit)

Mk 1:15 saying, The time is fulfilled & the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye & believe the gospel
(NOTE: good news I.E. the long promised Messiah/Christ/God's Anointed one has ARRIVED. Turn to God & place your faith in His Christ)

Mk 4:26 And he said, So is the kingdom of God, as if a man should cast seed into the ground;
(NOTE: The sower is Christ (Lk 8:5), the seed is Gods Word (Lk 8:11) and the soil is our hearts Lk 8:15)

Lk 12:31 But rather seek ye the kingdom of God; and all these things shall be added unto you.

Lk 13:29 And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God.

Jn 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
(NOTE: Born again = New spiritual birth)

Jn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
(NOTE: Born of water/flesh first then of spirit thru Faith. The need to be born of flesh 1st rules out salvation for fallen angels)

Rom 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
(NOTE: The Holy Spirit is what? SPIRITUAL!)

1Cor 4:20 For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power.
(NOTE: The Kingdom of God is NOT physical! It is Spiritual & comes in resurrection POWER)

Lk 17:21 (B) Jesus said; Behold, "the kingdom of God is within you"
(NOTE: The Kingdom of God": is WITHIN YOU/SPIRITUAL: The Church = Christ in you: "The Body of Christ"!

The point in posting the following 4 verses is: In Revelation at the end of the physical Kingdom of Heaven there is a rebellion (Rev 20:8-9) No people like these ever make it into the SPIRITUAL Kingdom of God.

1 Co 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

1 Co 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

1 Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

The Kingdom of Heaven is PHYSICAL! It is the fulfillment of Gods pomise to Abraham (Gen 12:2-3, 13:14, 15:17-18)

The physical land covenant God makes with Abraham & Israel is EVERLASTING:

God gives the exact boundaries of the promised land in Num 34:1-15 (also: Deut 1:8, Ex 2:24, Ex 6:4, 8 & Ps 105:8-11)

The Gospel of the Kingdom message begins with John the Baptist Matt 3:2-6 & Mk 1:4-5

After John's arrest, Jesus himself takes up the kingdom message. Matt 4:12-17

Matt 4:23 Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, "preaching the gospel of the kingdom"

The promised Kingdom reign of Christ could have begun, had the Jewish leadership accepted God's chosen Messiah. Jewish leadership rejected Messiah & had him killed. Gods promise of a physical King & physical Kingdom will happen at Christs soon return.

Zech 9:14 & 15, 12:10–14, 13:1, Jer 30:18, 32:44, 33:11, 26, Joel 3:1, Amos 9:11–15, Rev 20:6.

The promised physical kingdom reign of Gods chosen Messiah was only postponed. Soon The King will return, set-up and physically rule from Jerusalem, An OT promise to Israel's Fathers/Abraham.

ForestGreenCook find additional help to your FALSE CLAIMS that God has dumped Israel

https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...ael-is-it-biblical.181623/page-4#post-3802184
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
#51
God denounced the nation of Israel due to their unfaithfulness and gave it to the Gentiles.
What I could never understand is why the first church established by the 12 Apostles (non gentile) was in Jerusalem (non gentile city), lead by James (non gentile) and consisted of mostly non gentiles. Shouldn't these all be gentiles rather than non gentiles? I guess there were some gentiles involved, rome (gentiles) came in, destroyed that church, killed James, killed and persecuted the other Apostles and believers, moved the church to rome, and then started new things that had never been done before by the Lords chosen people, oppressing the masses, burning people alive and conquering other nations all in the name of Jesus.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
1,213
113
#52
What I could never understand is why the first church established by the 12 Apostles (non gentile) was in Jerusalem (non gentile city), lead by James (non gentile) and consisted of mostly non gentiles. Shouldn't these all be gentiles rather than non gentiles? I guess there were some gentiles involved, rome (gentiles) came in, destroyed that church, killed James, killed and persecuted the other Apostles and believers, moved the church to rome, and then started new things that had never been done before by the Lords chosen people, oppressing the masses, burning people alive and conquering other nations all in the name of Jesus.
Christ built his church, not the apostles. His church includes people from every kindred, tongue and nation.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
1,213
113
#53
1st; I attempted to shed some historical light on the first question in the OP: QUOTE: """What is the House of Israel"""?

2ndly; Your stated opinion: QUOTE """God denounced the nation of Israel due to their unfaithfulness and gave it to the Gentiles""". This notion that God has given gentiles, Israels promises, better yet THEIR ETERNAL COVENANT PROMISES. Is scripturally baseless!

3rdly; On the elect: QUOTE """I have not done an in-depth study on this concept""". Your unscriptural statement as to who the elect are proves, you haven't studied this at all. Every person that by/thru FAITH accepted/trusted God & his promise of a Messiah/Redeemer is God's elect. Example: 400 plus years before God sets apart/chooses a Nation of people (Israel). Abram/Abraham thru FAITH is a chosen/elect.

Abraham names the place: Jehovahjireh
Gen 22:14 And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovahjireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the LORD it shall be seen.
(NOTE: Jehovahjireh means = The Lord Will Provide. Ok, PROVIDE what? A SACRIFICE! The promised seed/Christ is = The SACRIFICE/Atonement!)

Hebrews adds additional context here:
Hebrews 11:19 Accounting (believing) that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead;
(NOTE: Abraham BELIEVED God could raise Isaac from the grave. We the Spiritually Indwelt placed our FAITH/BELIEVE Christ death is a sacrificial atonement & BELIEVE Jesus ROSE on day 3)

In the OP you posted this; QUOTE: """God instructed his apostles to go preach to the "lost sheep" of "the house of Israel, which is Jacob (God's elect)""". This statement makes NO sense! Are Jacobs offspring the ELECT? Or are some of them LOST?

You post Heb 8:10 to build a case for some of your unscriptural bloviation. If you post Heb 8:8 BOTH houses are mentioned. That alone destroys your commentary. Not to mention the house of Judah is also part of Jacob. GEEZZZ!

Your OP states; QUOTE: """but they do not know that the "kingdom of heaven (Christ's church) is at hand""". I'll explain your ERROR here. In my reply to your baseless observation of my spiritual awareness you posted in post #34 within this thread.

Kingdom of God (SPIRITUAL) vs Kingdom of Heaven (PHYSICAL)

Throughout scripture two kingdoms: physical & spiritual are revealed.

Cain physical, Abel spiritual
Ishmael physical, Isaac spiritual (See Gal 4:22-31)
Esau physical, Jacob spiritual
Israel physical, Body of Christ/Church spiritual
Adam physical, Christ Spiritual (1 Cor 15:45)

1 Corinthians 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam (Jesus Christ) was made a quickening spirit

Jesus preached the Gospel of the kingdom, yet spoke about both. KJV has reference to "Kingdom of Heaven" 31 times in Matt. I found reference to "Kingdom of God" 45 time in the 4 gospels.

If Jewish leadership had excepted their Messiah. They could have received both. And one day soon, they will again have the opportunity.

The Kingdom of God is SPIRITUAL! Not physical:
Lk 17:21 (B) Jesus said; Behold, "the kingdom of God is within you"
(NOTE: This is a spirit promise that began in Acts 2:4. At Pentecost believers are INDWELT via the outpouring of the Holy Spirit "the kingdom of God is WITHIN YOU")

Mat 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you
(NOTE: Righteous is abtained thru faith in Christ's sin atoning sacrifice & sealed by the indewlling Holy Spirit)

Mk 1:15 saying, The time is fulfilled & the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye & believe the gospel
(NOTE: good news I.E. the long promised Messiah/Christ/God's Anointed one has ARRIVED. Turn to God & place your faith in His Christ)

Mk 4:26 And he said, So is the kingdom of God, as if a man should cast seed into the ground;
(NOTE: The sower is Christ (Lk 8:5), the seed is Gods Word (Lk 8:11) and the soil is our hearts Lk 8:15)

Lk 12:31 But rather seek ye the kingdom of God; and all these things shall be added unto you.

Lk 13:29 And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God.

Jn 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
(NOTE: Born again = New spiritual birth)

Jn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
(NOTE: Born of water/flesh first then of spirit thru Faith. The need to be born of flesh 1st rules out salvation for fallen angels)

Rom 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
(NOTE: The Holy Spirit is what? SPIRITUAL!)

1Cor 4:20 For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power.
(NOTE: The Kingdom of God is NOT physical! It is Spiritual & comes in resurrection POWER)

Lk 17:21 (B) Jesus said; Behold, "the kingdom of God is within you"
(NOTE: The Kingdom of God": is WITHIN YOU/SPIRITUAL: The Church = Christ in you: "The Body of Christ"!

The point in posting the following 4 verses is: In Revelation at the end of the physical Kingdom of Heaven there is a rebellion (Rev 20:8-9) No people like these ever make it into the SPIRITUAL Kingdom of God.

1 Co 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

1 Co 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

1 Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

The Kingdom of Heaven is PHYSICAL! It is the fulfillment of Gods pomise to Abraham (Gen 12:2-3, 13:14, 15:17-18)

The physical land covenant God makes with Abraham & Israel is EVERLASTING:

God gives the exact boundaries of the promised land in Num 34:1-15 (also: Deut 1:8, Ex 2:24, Ex 6:4, 8 & Ps 105:8-11)

The Gospel of the Kingdom message begins with John the Baptist Matt 3:2-6 & Mk 1:4-5

After John's arrest, Jesus himself takes up the kingdom message. Matt 4:12-17

Matt 4:23 Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, "preaching the gospel of the kingdom"

The promised Kingdom reign of Christ could have begun, had the Jewish leadership accepted God's chosen Messiah. Jewish leadership rejected Messiah & had him killed. Gods promise of a physical King & physical Kingdom will happen at Christs soon return.

Zech 9:14 & 15, 12:10–14, 13:1, Jer 30:18, 32:44, 33:11, 26, Joel 3:1, Amos 9:11–15, Rev 20:6.

The promised physical kingdom reign of Gods chosen Messiah was only postponed. Soon The King will return, set-up and physically rule from Jerusalem, An OT promise to Israel's Fathers/Abraham.

ForestGreenCook find additional help to your FALSE CLAIMS that God has dumped Israel

https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...ael-is-it-biblical.181623/page-4#post-3802184
The promised Kingdom began when Christ set up his church on earth and the gates of hell has not prevailed against it, Christ is reigning as King and husband of that kingdom which has been in existence sense he set it up. There will be murders, liars, adulterers and such that will enter heaven eternal, but they will not be able to enter into Christ's kingdom (church) here on earth. David committed all of these sins and I feel sure that the apple of God's eye will be in eternal heaven due to the sacrifice of Jesus to pay for his sins. Christ has an invisable church (all of his elect) and a visiable church (the obedient elect), I believe this is explained by "the wheel within a wheel" in Ezk. The larger wheel being the invisiable church and the inter wheel being the visiable church. The two gates documented in Matt being the same example. Both gates being all of God's elect.
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
#54
Christ built his church, not the apostles. His church includes people from every kindred, tongue and nation.
of course He did, He also taught the Apostles, they did His will. that will included founding churches, the first one was in Jerusalem and it was Jewish not gentile.
the nations (gentiles) were always welcome, thats not something that began with Jesus, thats something that always was.


Mark 11:17
And he was teaching them and saying to them, “Is it not written, ‘My house shall be called a house of prayer for all the nations’? But you have made it a den of robbers.”
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#55
"The house of Israel" is literally the house or nation or kingdom of Israel under Christ.

The New Covenant was originally given to Israel (the twelve tribes descended from Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob), and the Church (which began with saved Jews) also comes under the New Covenant. Gentiles were grafted into the good olive tree of believing Israel (the believing remnant).

But after the second coming of Christ, God will gather all the Jews from around the world, and bring them to the land of Israel, so that they may ultimately bow their knees to their true Messiah. Study the prophecy of Ezekiel and all the other prophets, along with what is revealed in the New Testament.

But only 1/3rd will be saved and be settled in the land of Israel (which will at that time extend from the Nile to the Euphrates). God will redeem and restore Israel by His grace, but those who enter the Millennial Kingdom will all need to repent and be converted. They will weep, and wail, and mourn and then accept their King-Messiah Jesus of Nazareth. They will then be regenerated.

The house of Israel must not be confused with the Church. Therefore we have a microcosm of the house of Israel before the throne of God in Revelation 7 (the 144,000 redeemed Israelites) alongside the Church in Heaven. Which means that God has an eternal plan and purposes for BOTH Israel and the Church (whose eternal home is the New Jerusalem).

There we go, something you and I can agree on. Well said. Israel must not be confused with the church,though many do. Replacement theology ,under many names, is the belief that the church has replaced Israel. The Jews get all the curses the church gets all the blessing. Great post.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
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#56
Forest cook the elect means Israel.
it has always meant that in the Bible. When Jacob and Esau where in Rebekahs womb, they were fighting and God said there were two nations in there. And he did say the elder would serve the younger. That was prophecy, it turned out that esau was born first, and jacob born last or second.
But esau rejected the firstborn blessing, and Rebakah somehow made it that Jacob got it.

Fast forward through history, and the descendants of esau and jacob are still squabbling. jacob (now israel) has been favoured by God much but theyve also been cursed more when they disobeyed Him. Descendants of esau were jealous over Gods favour to Israel and thats why so much conflict in the middle east.

But get this BOTH are descendants of Abraham in the flesh. However God isnt looking for these so much as His children but children that belong to Him through faith...and this faith through Jesus Christ his only begotten son. However God hasnt forgotten the promise he made to Abraham either. Yet Jesus does say before Abrham was, I am.

He was there with God even before all this drama.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
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#57
Forest cook the elect means Israel.
it has always meant that in the Bible. When Jacob and Esau where in Rebekahs womb, they were fighting and God said there were two nations in there. And he did say the elder would serve the younger. That was prophecy, it turned out that esau was born first, and jacob born last or second.
But esau rejected the firstborn blessing, and Rebakah somehow made it that Jacob got it.

Fast forward through history, and the descendants of esau and jacob are still squabbling. jacob (now israel) has been favoured by God much but theyve also been cursed more when they disobeyed Him. Descendants of esau were jealous over Gods favour to Israel and thats why so much conflict in the middle east.

But get this BOTH are descendants of Abraham in the flesh. However God isnt looking for these so much as His children but children that belong to Him through faith...and this faith through Jesus Christ his only begotten son. However God hasnt forgotten the promise he made to Abraham either. Yet Jesus does say before Abrham was, I am.

He was there with God even before all this drama.
The elect from every kindred, tongue and nation is spiritual Israel, not all the nation of Israel. God changed Jacob's name to be called Israel Gen 32:28. Jacob who is spiritual Israel is representative of all of God's elect. Most of the time Israel is mentioned in the scriptures it is talking about Jacob. The choosing of Jacob over Esau was to show that his election might stand.
 

TLC209

Active member
Mar 20, 2019
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#58
I would say the broad grouping would include both wouldn't you brother ?
I do believe God is all about both predetermination and his Holy Spirit saving all the lost sinners he can before the door of probation closes.
I firmly believe our Father loves us ......otherwise why would he visit and heal and save the lost soul of a drunkard like myself ???
In order that I might serve to help a few others ????
I believe Christ suffered and died for everyone who would come to faith in him.....
Some are destined and some hear is call some he intentionally seeks out to fulfill his purposes.....
I don't sweat which are which.....I just know his power is unequaled....and he can make sons of Abraham from rocks and Armies from dry bones.....he is unlimited and can take the worst of the worst and Elect them to be whatever his pleasure is !!!
I have personally felt and experienced the indiscribable power.....so.....I......KNOW !!!
.............I can't claim to just walking by Faith......
I love him for saving my life and I walk in Faith of knowing he did......so it doesn't matter to me if I am the least of the least....
............What matters to me is his loving mercy is so unlimited that he loved me and my life enough to save me.....and for that I am eternally greatful....even if my job is to wash the feet of his elect.....I would gladly do it.
Because of all that he has done for me !!!😀
Praise Be To Gods Great Gloriful Power and our Salvation in Christ !!!!
👏👏 Glory to God brother! God bless you! I totally agree with you. I had you wrong when you posted that hillbilly post in another thread lol geterr dunn 🤣
 

tanakh

Senior Member
Dec 1, 2015
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#59
Gods plan as laid out in the Bible is to redeem humanity from the curse and bring us back into fellowship with him. In order to do this
he chose Abraham and his line from among the nations to create a people who would eventually produce the second Adam, the Messiah
Jesus. The whole point of Israel's existence was for this aim. Everything about Israel in the OT looks forward towards Christs coming
and his sacrifice as the true Lamb of God. He is the embodiment of the true Israel and the second Adam. Humanity is not divided by
Jew and Gentile. Its divided by which Adamic group an individual belongs to. One can be in the first Adam that leads to death or the
second Adam that leads to eternal life. Everyone is given the same choice regardless of who they are or what they call themselves.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#60
Gods plan as laid out in the Bible is to redeem humanity from the curse and bring us back into fellowship with him. In order to do this
he chose Abraham and his line from among the nations to create a people who would eventually produce the second Adam, the Messiah
Jesus. The whole point of Israel's existence was for this aim. Everything about Israel in the OT looks forward towards Christs coming
and his sacrifice as the true Lamb of God. He is the embodiment of the true Israel and the second Adam. Humanity is not divided by
Jew and Gentile. Its divided by which Adamic group an individual belongs to. One can be in the first Adam that leads to death or the
second Adam that leads to eternal life. Everyone is given the same choice regardless of who they are or what they call themselves.
I agree .We do not wrestle against flesh and blood and neither does flesh and blood profit as if it was spirit.

The outward corrupted flesh of a Jew was is imply used by God as a metaphor. It either represents un-belief (no faith not little) of mankind.... all the nations..... or faith needed to believe.... any nation. God is no respecter of the corrupted flesh as if we did know Christ after the rudiments of this corrupted creation.

What we will be is not that in which we are today. We walk by faith the unseen eternal not after the flesh.... that seen the temporal .

1 John 3:2Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.