Some truth about speaking in tongues, the Holy Ghost, spiritual gifts and 1 Corinthians 14

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stonesoffire

stonesoffire

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eternally-gratefull said:
Your talking about three days

God has been working with mankind for between 6 and 10 thousands yeard (depending on who you talk to) I would not try to mark my belief system based on three days..

How did God have a relation with mankind all throughout history.. He is the same yesterday today and tomorrow.

I am just saying .

I understand you thinking I am against you or offending you. (And I pray I am not, it is not my intention) But you should see how you offend others also. It can not be one way.
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Ok, let's just discuss then what we believe without trying to change one anothers beliefs or insulting words. I think we can do this.

The word day is also meant to be an age. The day of the Lord is not one day. A period of time. So Passover was connected to Pentecost, and to Tabernacles when Holy Spirit came. I believe that the spiritual overtakes the natural now in time. This is the age of grace which is more than just unmerited favor. It is that, but is also the power of Holy Spirit working within us. Goal is fullness and that is coming. Might be the rapture am not sure.
 
stonesoffire

stonesoffire

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#102
By the way, how I know about pew sitting is I used to be this way. Didn't want to move on. Was scared because I was under the burden of law too. Then grace came when I started to study on my own. It's important to know what we are reading. What all this means.
 
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eternally-gratefull

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#103
#103
stonesoffire said:
Ok, let's just discuss then what we believe without trying to change one anothers beliefs or insulting words. I think we can do this.

The word day is also meant to be an age. The day of the Lord is not one day. A period of time. So Passover was connected to Pentecost, and to Tabernacles when Holy Spirit came. I believe that the spiritual overtakes the natural now in time. This is the age of grace which is more than just unmerited favor. It is that, but is also the power of Holy Spirit working within us. Goal is fullness and that is coming. Might be the rapture am not sure.
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When the came, He spoke to people in their native language (tongue) as prophesied, (in fact,
It is a possibility The speaker spoke in their own language and the people heard what the speaker spoke in their language. This was a sign given to the jews so they would hopefully see Christ. And a sign that God was with these new people. And he was starting somethign new. (The pharisees were wrong)


I am not sure what Passover has to do with certain gifts sis.. I am being honest.. And no I am not tryign to change your mind, Just giving my view.. and what I see.. If you see and change your view. Or I see and change my view. It is good. If neither of us change views, It is also good. At least we know where they other thinks concerning this subject..

That is what discussion is for :)
 
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eternally-gratefull

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#104
stonesoffire said:
By the way, how I know about pew sitting is I used to be this way. Didn't want to move on. Was scared because I was under the burden of law too. Then grace came when I started to study on my own. It's important to know what we are reading. What all this means.
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I agree we should not be pew sitters

Then again, i used to think church was all about meeting in some building on Sunday, and maybe a wed prayer service. I no longer believe this also.
 
Absolutely

Absolutely

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eternally-gratefull said:
What? So his attacks are good for God?

Seriously sis, I think you need to rethink what you said, Just because he agrees with you and is on your side does not mean what he is doing is right..
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No,there are no attacks.
Back that up with an example.
 
K

kaylagrl

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#106
Just to be on record, no thread should leave the opposing view out. People have a right to discuss what their view is on either side,kindly. I agree with tongues,but as I said in the post against tongues,everyone has a right to their POV and should have the freedom to post it.
 
K

KelbyofGod

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wolfwint said:
You quotet 2.Tim 3,16 And this is correct. But is it also correct to use the scripture according what we want?
How many groups and cults useing the scripture for their false doctrines?
F.e. i belong now to an russian german church. They seperatet from an other church which taught, that woman have to wear only dresses. And wearing trousers is a sin. Because in OT it was said to the Isrealites that woman should not wear male cloth.

You realy would say from a scripture we can make an doctrine?

We can learn from all scripture. From the hymes f.e. how they glorified God. How they prayed to God.
F.e.We can learn how the Lord dealed with the folk of Israel.
But my view is, we cant make an doctrine where is no doctrine.
What John said? At the end of his gospel. Only a a small part from that what Jesus did is written down.

As I said, acts 2, 8, 10, 19 can also interprete different then pentecostals ore charismatics do it.

So much for now.
Our Lord may bless you
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Sorry I"ve been away for so long.

You said that acts 2,8,10 & 19 can be interpreted to mean something other than unknown tongues (at each initial outpouring, or lack of outpouring). Would you share the interpretation that you believe, so we can run it through the examples to see if that definition stands?

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 
K

KelbyofGod

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kaylagrl said:
Just to be on record, no thread should leave the opposing view out. People have a right to discuss what their view is on either side,kindly. I agree with tongues,but as I said in the post against tongues,everyone has a right to their POV and should have the freedom to post it.
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Kaylagrl,
Thanks for posting. I agree that all should be able to post their views if done politely. My initial posting wasn't a ban on two-sided discussion. It was a request for civility and a call for people to check their motives before posting.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 
K

kaylagrl

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#109
KelbyofGod said:
Kaylagrl,
Thanks for posting. I agree that all should be able to post their views if done politely. My initial posting wasn't a ban on two-sided discussion. It was a request for civility and a call for people to check their motives before posting.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
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Well that doesn't seem to be the attitude on the opposing thread. But as I said I posted mainly so as not to be called a hypocrite as I said the same on the opposing thread. I have no issue with tongues.
 
K

KelbyofGod

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eternally-gratefull said:
How could I know if he spoke in a language I can not understand? What is the fdifference between words incomprehensible comming out of my mouth and prayers for me I do not hear.

I know by what happens in my life and the things I see which i know God had a hand in..



How can I interpret it? You tell me, If God speaks in a language i can not understand how can I know

1. it is from God
2. It is real
3. That what God prayed (supposedly) has been fulfilled?

I woudl have no posibility.. And just saying “it is faith” is not a correct answer.

Because I have faith God prays for me, and I have more faiht in what I see those prayers are answered.

See this is what upsets me about charismatic churches. Who said I ws just a pew sitter? Can you explain this to me,

1. It is an insult to the power of God I have seen in my life and my churhc
2. it is an insult to me and all the work I have done by using my gift in the body
3. It is misleading. (It sounds as if the only reason you want me to speak is to see Gods power as if that is the only Way gd can manifest his power? Which in itself is an insult. Except this time, it is an insult in my mind to God.
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Eternally-gratefull,
First, to address a concern you posted later, let me say that your conversation was not offensive. I've been away for a week or so and your conversation with stonesoffire was a great relief to me as I wondered how things would go. On another note I too appreciate Absolute's boldness...but if ever he crossed over into attacks on your person, that particular tactic I would not support.

Secondly, I'd like to address most of the questions you posed, especially the 1,2,3 questions as they appear to me as logical, natural to be asked, necessary, and most importantly...honest. Although I may answer out of chronological order. :)
eternally-gratefull said:
You tell me, If God speaks in a language i can not understand how can I know

1. it is from God
2. It is real
3. That what God prayed (supposedly) has been fulfilled?
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1. This starts by how you receive it in the first place. Just like at the first recorded outpourings (Acts 2, 10,&19) , people receive it when they are seeking God. In one of his parables Jesus was basically stating that " if people are asking God for his spirit, he's not going to give them something bad" (luke 11:11-13)

2. First, refer back to answer #1 :) Then you start testing it by using it to see if it does what is promised in later scriptures such as "helps our infirmities" (Romans 8:26 BTW, groans can be heard by not understood :) ) and"Edifies the speaker" (1 Cor. 14:4)

3. This one is harder because in short we DON'T know what has been prayed. But we sometimes know who/what we asked the spirit to pray concerning...then we can see what kind of results are brought to pass in that person/situation. And as we see the 'edification'
happening in us (that was promised in 1 Cor. 14:4 and Rom.8:26), we also begin to see the correlation between praying in the spirit/tongues and the magnified results which are most often considerably more impressive than what happens when praying in our understanding alone.

Oops. Gotta go for now because my daughter just ran out of gas and I need to be the Dad-hero! lol

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 
wolfwint

wolfwint

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KelbyofGod said:
Sorry I"ve been away for so long.

You said that acts 2,8,10 & 19 can be interpreted to mean something other than unknown tongues (at each initial outpouring, or lack of outpouring). Would you share the interpretation that you believe, so we can run it through the examples to see if that definition stands?

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
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Hi Kelby, no problem.
I read the text as he is and was he says. It is just a report how the Holy Spirit came into this world and that he came not only for the jews, what they expect. But also for the gentiles, samarians and the jews which are baptised by John the baptist. This events were written down for to proof this to the jews, as we can read in the text.

If you take this 4 events to make a doctrine, then you have to consider all aspects of this events:

1. All 4 have common that only the Apostles had the authority to lay the hand on for giving the Holy Spirit.
Only in acts 10 the Holy Spirit came while Peter spoke.

2. When they spoke in tongues, other could understand what they spoke(acts 2,10 and 19) in acts 8 is not reportet that they spoke in tongues.

3. The time of water baptism.
In acts 2 came the Holy Spirit. No water baptism mentioned
In acts 8 (samarians) first baptism and then getting the Holy Spirit through the apostles.
In acts 8 (athiopian eunuch) first faith then water baptism. No mention getting Holy Spirit ore speaking in tongues, but Joy in the heart.
In acts 10 first faith, then getting the Holy Spirit, then water baptism.
In acts 19 first faith, then water baptism, then getting the Holy Spirit through Paul.

How you will create from this an uniqe doctrine?

Today we have no Apostles.
And finally you cant find a unique line if you take all facts.
First water baptism? Who has the authority to lay on the hands? Ore pray for? First Holy Spirit?
What is clear: 1. The word. 2. the faith.
 
G

garee

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Gotta love the Dad super heroes. I have been given 5 girls never outgrow the need for family.

1. This starts by how you receive it in the first place. Just like at the first recorded outpourings (Acts 2, 10,&19) , people receive it when they are seeking God. In one of his parables Jesus was basically stating that " if people are asking God for his spirit, he's not going to give them something bad" (luke 11:11-13)
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I see that a little differently. I would add because our new faith, previously having none is not of us as that which does the seeking. People receive his word, prophecy as a way God seeking them . In that way he does the first works in us (beleive God) as our first loving experience of knowing Him

Galatians 4:9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

2. First, refer back to answer #1 :) Then you start testing it by using it to see if it does what is promised in later scriptures such as "helps our infirmities" (Romans 8:26 BTW, groans can be heard by not understood :) ) and"Edifies the speaker" (1 Cor. 14:4)
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The groans I beleive are the desires of our new hearts not audible noise without meaning. God's interpretation as a revelation comes with God's understanding. I would offer I do not think that he does inform us to seek the private interpretation of men as their personal commentaries. In 1 John 2: 27 -28 he warns us of those who say we do need a man seen to teach us. Not that we cannot have a favorite Christian preacher or author but rather that we are to call no man seen Master teacher on earth for one is our father in heaven.

Even the Son of man Jesus refused to stand in the holy unseen place of the father and said only God is good. .Jesus in order to give glory to the unseen place refused to be recognized as a fleshly mediator that stands between God not seen and mankind seen as a infallible umpire called a daysman in the Bible..God is not a man as us.

The word of God edifies the speaker God not the feet of those sent with it as it is written. We preach Christ he causes the growth if any.

Not a salvation issue another way of looking at it. Jesus same hero of our new faith

I suggest looking at the foundation of the doctrine in Isaiah 28 and as a law revealed in 1 Corinthians 14:21-22. It reveals what the sign confirms and who it is in respect to. Once that is confirmed then the doctrine of God mocking those who mock Him refusing to believe he exists can be understood according to the law.

Two kinds of people. Those who have faith coming from prophecy and those who have no faith, none


In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.1 Corinthians 14:21-22
 
TLC209

TLC209

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#113
KelbyofGod said:
Wolfwint,
I have a lot of honest hope regarding you.

Twice in this quote you said something important.... pointing out that what I am saying is "questionable". My earnest prayer is that you will choose the right 'person' to actually ASK about those questionable things.

Consider what would have happened if the people in Jesus' days took the 'questionable' teachings of Jesus to the priests and upholders of religion of that time... OR...if they decided to process them using their own understanding of the scriptures.

Then consider what would have happened if those same people took their questions directly to GOD and asked him sincerely and open-heartedly until he made them clear... no longer 'questionable' but CLEAR.

The difference in those two scenarios is part of what Jesus meant when he said "No man can come to me except the Father that sent me draw him". If people won't honestly seek God as if HE is needed and is willing to answer their questions, they cannot receive the correct understanding of what is laid before them, no matter how eloquent the speaker.

Besides, What kind of religion do we have if we don't need God in it....if we're able to trust our interpretation without so much as asking him whether we got it right...and secretly believing he wouldn't answer if we did. Haven't you ever NEEDED God to do something for you?... to where you had to seek him until he moved? If you have, and sought him earnestly, then you know he still moves.

I know that I tell you things that disagree with what you've been taught AND things you believe by your own reading of the scriptures. But I also know that if you'll seek God without giving up, he will answer. If people won't take things to God until he moves, what kind of God do they really serve? One that is on paper and in discussions only? In all of the bible (Old testament and new) they were serving a God that MOVED, answered, healed and did miracles. Why do people act like God won't so much as answer a question? (and no, I'm not talking about you. Like I said, I've got a lot of hope for you or I wouldn't speak as freely as I am now.)

What I am asking you to do (besides forgiving me for speaking so openly) is to actually pray about those 'questionable' things as if you serve a living and able God who actually answers prayer (in the name of Jesus Christ). And don't throw out something 'questionable' until God answers the questions.

And if you'd like me to answer your second set of questions with scripture, rather than just this rant... just say so. I'm willing to do that for you. I just had to point out that prayer is NEEDED if we're ever going to see past what we THINK is right.


Love in Jesus,
Kelby
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Hey youre absolutely right. This is the best approach in anything we do, seek we God and we shall find. You cant go wrong. I got answers to my prayers to difficult questions that no one could answer and help me with but God revealed them, its being open to let God work in your life that maybe not everyone has done or experienced yet but its the best feeling in my opinion to know God is listening and responds through Holy Scripture. I can sense you have the Holy Spirit just by the calm appraoch. So let me chime in, this is my study so far in the tounges debate.When Paul asks 1 Corinthians 12:29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Are all workers of miracles? 30 Do all have gifts of healings? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret?

Its a rhetorical question the answer being NO. So I take it as just because someone else in the body doesnt speak in tounges doesnt make them lesser part of the body. Speaking in tounges edifies the person speaking in tounges and intercedes on the persons behalf, but in church it shouldnt be done without an interpreter. So once again the answer is NO all do not interpret. The gifts bestowed on the believer the Holy Spirit chooses what He bestows on the person. There is a scripture in Mark 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

So these are signs that will follow a believer. Jesus taught this in the passage. So its true. Theres no denying it, but the believer isnt going to posses all the signs, i never handled a snake in my life nor do i plan to lol But I have layed hands on the sick. They did recover. And I have casted demons. I do not speak in tounges. But I know I have the Holy Spirit. What happened at pentecost was a sign for unbelievers and they were all given the Cloven Tounge which were the languages of all the other nations that were present, I believe it had a purpose which was to spread the Gospel in the diverse languages. The Holy Spirit doesn't change. The gift of speaking in tounges still exist, I just dont believe we all share the same gifts and Paul didnt teach that we all bare the same gifts. One of my gifts is teacher. I dont expect everyone to be a teacher and the bible doesnt say that either. God bless
 
Absolutely

Absolutely

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TLC209 said:
Hey youre absolutely right. This is the best approach in anything we do, seek we God and we shall find. You cant go wrong. I got answers to my prayers to difficult questions that no one could answer and help me with but God revealed them, its being open to let God work in your life that maybe not everyone has done or experienced yet but its the best feeling in my opinion to know God is listening and responds through Holy Scripture. I can sense you have the Holy Spirit just by the calm appraoch. So let me chime in, this is my study so far in the tounges debate.When Paul asks 1 Corinthians 12:29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Are all workers of miracles? 30 Do all have gifts of healings? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret?

Its a rhetorical question the answer being NO. So I take it as just because someone else in the body doesnt speak in tounges doesnt make them lesser part of the body. Speaking in tounges edifies the person speaking in tounges and intercedes on the persons behalf, but in church it shouldnt be done without an interpreter. So once again the answer is NO all do not interpret. The gifts bestowed on the believer the Holy Spirit chooses what He bestows on the person. There is a scripture in Mark 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

So these are signs that will follow a believer. Jesus taught this in the passage. So its true. Theres no denying it, but the believer isnt going to posses all the signs, i never handled a snake in my life nor do i plan to lol But I have layed hands on the sick. They did recover. And I have casted demons. I do not speak in tounges. But I know I have the Holy Spirit. What happened at pentecost was a sign for unbelievers and they were all given the Cloven Tounge which were the languages of all the other nations that were present, I believe it had a purpose which was to spread the Gospel in the diverse languages. The Holy Spirit doesn't change. The gift of speaking in tounges still exist, I just dont believe we all share the same gifts and Paul didnt teach that we all bare the same gifts. One of my gifts is teacher. I dont expect everyone to be a teacher and the bible doesnt say that either. God bless
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Show me a verse where an evangelist PREACHED in another language that was UNKNOWN,and then An INTERPRETER was needed.
That is ludicrous.
The Holy Spirit supposedly uses an evangelist that does not know their language,so HE has them preach in yet a third language and supplies an interpreter .
How many languages would the interpreter need to know?

Nope. Man came up with that.
Paul said,when he speaks in tongues his mind is unfruitful,but his spirit is edified.
He said he spoke in tongues more than all of them.

We see this exact same thing today.
IOW,Paul had no interpreter,but his spirit was edified.
Then ,in the assembly, the interpretation is brought forth.
Lets say i go to a russian church. I will not understand either.
But one of them could clue me in via interpretation.
See how "interpretation" fits only one understanding.?
Paul when alone neither had the interpretation,or needed one.
Part of speaking in tongues is the devil does not know what you are praying.
(Unknown tongue)
 
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eternally-gratefull

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#115
KelbyofGod said:
Eternally-gratefull,
First, to address a concern you posted later, let me say that your conversation was not offensive. I've been away for a week or so and your conversation with stonesoffire was a great relief to me as I wondered how things would go. On another note I too appreciate Absolute's boldness...but if ever he crossed over into attacks on your person, that particular tactic I would not support.
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It is sad that this debate gets so heated. Sadly I think one side or the other always feels attacked even when they are not. And at same time some from each side do attack each other violently. Some will not even try to give any view or show why they think they are right, but just resort to name calling and attack, And this no one should stand for no matter what side your on.

I usually like to ask questions if I am not sure or state things if they do not make sense to me, Just please do not take as insult or an attack.


Secondly, I'd like to address most of the questions you posed, especially the 1,2,3 questions as they appear to me as logical, natural to be asked, necessary, and most importantly...honest. Although I may answer out of chronological order. :)

1. This starts by how you receive it in the first place. Just like at the first recorded outpourings (Acts 2, 10,&19) , people receive it when they are seeking God. In one of his parables Jesus was basically stating that " if people are asking God for his spirit, he's not going to give them something bad" (luke 11:11-13)
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Now see this makes no sense to me. In acts 2, Jesus told them they would recieve the spirit, because no one could until he departed (He chose the day of pentecost fot a reason.) people did not ask for it. He just came, thats what happens when we ask God for salvation, The spirit comes, and he seals and resides. If you do not have the spirit, your not saved, You have not been baptised, You have not been anointed, you have not been sealed. Your still on the outside looking in.

Once the spirit comes in and taked up residence, He empowers us with the power to walk, the power to learn, the power to grow and with certain gifts as needed to enable to churhc to be a living function. As paul said, he gave some this gift, some that gift, some other gifts. And non of these gifts are more important than the other. Tongues just happens to be one of those gifts.


2. First, refer back to answer #1 :) Then you start testing it by using it to see if it does what is promised in later scriptures such as "helps our infirmities" (Romans 8:26 BTW, groans can be heard by not understood :) ) and"Edifies the speaker" (1 Cor. 14:4)
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The only way to test is is like in Acts 2, pther people heard them speak in their own language (a sign) and in other places where there is an Interpretor. And then whatever is said has to actually come to pass. Otherwise, you have no way to test what is interpreted to be true.
Rom 8 speaks of the spirit who prays on our behalf with words that can not be spoken. It does not say these words are heard. I believe the spirit prays for me all the time, Whether I hear the groans or not is beside the point, Does he mean he does not pray?

And in 1 cor 14, Paul makes it clear when in a group setting he woudl rather speak 5 words which can be understood that many works which can not. SO what good is an unknown tongue in a group setting where their should be Teaching or learning, UNless there is prophesying going on (whicih can be verified by the prophecy comeing true, otherwise it is useless or unconfirmable) where the perosn who speaks in tongues is edified, but the prophesy he gives through the edified the church. Either way, it must be tested and verified that the tongue or word spoken was real. Or it is meaningless. Because even satan can speak through men, and it is dangerous to just assume it is from God, It may be, or may not be, But like scripture. If it can not be verified. Then we walk on thin ice.

3. This one is harder because in short we DON'T know what has been prayed. But we sometimes know who/what we asked the spirit to pray concerning...then we can see what kind of results are brought to pass in that person/situation. And as we see the 'edification'
happening in us (that was promised in 1 Cor. 14:4 and Rom.8:26), we also begin to see the correlation between praying in the spirit/tongues and the magnified results which are most often considerably more impressive than what happens when praying in our understanding alone.

Oops. Gotta go for now because my daughter just ran out of gas and I need to be the Dad-hero! lol

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
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I am gonne be honest, I am not sure what your saying here, so I do not want to make the mistake of assuming, Can you try to explain again.

And thanks for your understanding and kind words bro. Hope you had a great weekend.
 
G

garee

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The gifts bestowed on the believer the Holy Spirit chooses what He bestows on the person. There is a scripture in Mark 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.



So these are signs that will follow a believer. Jesus taught this in the passage. So its true. Theres no denying it, but the believer isnt going to posses all the signs, i never handled a snake in my life nor do i plan to lol But I have layed hands on the sick. They did recover. And I have casted demons. I do not speak in tounges. But I know I have the Holy Spirit. What happened at pentecost was a sign for unbelievers and they were all given the Cloven Tounge which were the languages of all the other nations that were present, I believe it had a purpose which was to spread the Gospel in the diverse languages. The Holy Spirit doesn't change. The gift of speaking in tounges still exist, I just dont believe we all share the same gifts and Paul didnt teach that we all bare the same gifts. One of my gifts is teacher. I dont expect everyone to be a teacher and the bible doesnt say that either. God bless
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It would seem that you have not separated the two different kinds of signs. One sign confirms a believer has heard the word of God (Mark 16) the other of a different kind a sign confirms that one refuses to believe in a God not seen, Again a sign as a law not subject to change that confirm their rebellion.(1 Corinthians 14:21-22)

From my experiences many avoid looking at the foundation of the matter. God with stammering mocking lips derides those who mock him in unbelief (no faith) as he promises to bring his prophecy through other nations (all).

The doctrine has its root in Isaiah 28. It would seem it is Taboo for many who refuse to look to it as it can destroy the preconceived ideas men hold as a higher value than the law. Not of a sign gift to confirm belie,f a sign as a curse.

When a person has received the Holy Spirit given a new heart that desires to do the will of God they will be interested in sharing the gospel as new tongues the tongue of God. Speaking new tongues is bring the gospel .The tongue of God by which he speaks to both men and angels .

The law in verse 21 22 of 1 Corinthian 14 must be applied . It would seem many refuse to seek the understanding it does give as to what and whom the sign is in respect to . The sign that follow the believers are like those in Mark . The sign that follows those who refuse to believe the word of God. 1 Corinthian 14. One of the many sign that speak of rebellion

A difference must be sought after in order to distinguish as sign to the rebels and a sign that follows after one believers.

In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. Wherefore tongues are for a sign, "not to them that believe", but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.1 Corinthians 14:21-22

Who is the sign for ? No sign there for those who believe .

Signs that follow believers Mark 16
 
TLC209

TLC209

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Mar 20, 2019
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#117
Absolutely said:
Show me a verse where an evangelist PREACHED in another language that was UNKNOWN,and then An INTERPRETER was needed.
That is ludicrous.
The Holy Spirit supposedly uses an evangelist that does not know their language,so HE has them preach in yet a third language and supplies an interpreter .
How many languages would the interpreter need to know?

Nope. Man came up with that.
Paul said,when he speaks in tongues his mind is unfruitful,but his spirit is edified.
He said he spoke in tongues more than all of them.

We see this exact same thing today.
IOW,Paul had no interpreter,but his spirit was edified.
Then ,in the assembly, the interpretation is brought forth.
Lets say i go to a russian church. I will not understand either.
But one of them could clue me in via interpretation.
See how "interpretation" fits only one understanding.?
Paul when alone neither had the interpretation,or needed one.
Part of speaking in tongues is the devil does not know what you are praying.
(Unknown tongue)
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I think I get what you're trying to say. So the only time I've seen in church people interpret what the Holy Spirit is speaking its usually during prophesy.

Have you heard in church when the person speaks louder than anyone else without a microphone? Usually they start out speaking in tounges loudly then God begins to speak through them. Thats been my experience of this interpretation of tounges. But I always distinguished it as prophesying. And its usually a church member and not the pastor. Moved by the Holy Spirit.

But I get what you're saying. I don't think anyone preaches in this form because that's not what it is intended for. Speaking in tounges only edifies the person speaking in tounges. The cloven tounge as shown in pentecost was able to speak in another persons language. You wouldn't need an interpreter for the cloven tounge because the person would understand it in their language. Im sure it wouldn't be an entire sermon in cloven tounge but enough for the person to know it was God speaking.
 
G

garee

Banned
#118
Mar 28, 2016
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#118
I think I get what you're trying to say. So the only time I've seen in church people interpret what the Holy Spirit is speaking its usually during prophesy.
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The Holy Spirit interprets the thoughts of God when he prophesies. No private interpretations of men How beautiful are the feet of those shod with the gospel.

But I get what you're saying. I don't think anyone preaches in this form because that's not what it is intended for. Speaking in tongues only edifies the person speaking in tongues.
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Yes it edifies the speaker God as he prophecies in many languages after Pentecost as a sign that confirm unbelief . Yet for all that the faithless Jews and gentiles refused to believe prophecy .

The sign to the world of God with stammering lips mocking those who mock him, to show they have no faith in a God not seen.
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#119
Jun 30, 2015
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#119
garee said:
Yes it edifies the speaker God as he prophecies in many languages after Pentecost as a sign that confirm unbelief .
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That is not what Scripture says. Please read 1 Corinthians 14:1-4 again.
 
K

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
#120
Oct 8, 2017
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#120
eternally-gratefull said:
It is sad that this debate gets so heated. Sadly I think one side or the other always feels attacked even when they are not. And at same time some from each side do attack each other violently. Some will not even try to give any view or show why they think they are right, but just resort to name calling and attack, And this no one should stand for no matter what side your on.
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I've been in debate/battle mode before. And in all honesty, there are times when an uncompromising take-it-or-leave-it offer is the right thing to do. But often I would see some other person speak with kindness and love...and in those cases I'd realize I wasn't required to behave as I did...I'd just chosen to behave that way.

eternally-gratefull said:
I usually like to ask questions if I am not sure or state things if they do not make sense to me, Just please do not take as insult or an attack.
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It's usually easy to tell when a question is an attack rather than an honest answer. Your questions here are good ones. I similarly will answer honestly, not attackingly...and I hope you'll forgive me if I over-explain.

I'm going to start with the last one, where you asked me to elaborate about my statement of "we DON'T know"(what is being prayed).

The first thing you must remember throughout,... is that when we tongues-talkers refer to "speaking in tongues" we mean the kind that sounds like gibberish. (If I could get you to read that last part 5 times in a row, I would. It is a crucial component to understanding my earlier statement.) If that sounds stupid, fine, let it sound stupid. But understand that the moment you start talking about speech that other people can understand without additional miraculous intervention, then you've moved off to another topic....And yes, we can discuss Acts 2:6-12 later. I'm just talking about the unintelligible kind for right now.

Am I correct to assume you've observed, either in person or perhaps a [groan] Youtube video, of people talking in some unintelligible 'language'? If so, THAT's what I'm talking about. That kind of speaking. (Not their actions, flailings, dramatics, etc. Just the type of speaking they are doing). Sorry if I spent too much time hammering on that point.

So if you look back on our explanations to your question #3, it seems you were talking about a kind of language/prayer that can be understood by man. I was talking about a kind of language/prayer that cannot be understood by man...unless GOD provides interpretation. Is that a correct evaluation?

If you're with me so far, let me know and I'll explain further.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 
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