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I will apologize if I dont have scripture present, but id like to respond.
To 1. I have been wondering this lately. Specifically in regards to the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. People often forget to add "the knowledge of," when using that phrase. I think thats key in understanding this. I think we were meant to be like the beasts of the field/children. Somewhere in there as far as self-consciousness, goes. Or rather, consciousness of self.
For 2. Not scripturally speaking, no. It seems that the believer who abandons faith is worse off than unbelievers, and that other than that sin is equal. In fact, it is also scriptural to say that the enticer will get at least equal dues, but not that the one who acts will be any less culpable for having been entices. Whether by a satan, self or friend, we are to cling to Christ.
To 1. I have been wondering this lately. Specifically in regards to the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. People often forget to add "the knowledge of," when using that phrase. I think thats key in understanding this. I think we were meant to be like the beasts of the field/children. Somewhere in there as far as self-consciousness, goes. Or rather, consciousness of self.
For 2. Not scripturally speaking, no. It seems that the believer who abandons faith is worse off than unbelievers, and that other than that sin is equal. In fact, it is also scriptural to say that the enticer will get at least equal dues, but not that the one who acts will be any less culpable for having been entices. Whether by a satan, self or friend, we are to cling to Christ.
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It seems the fact that Adam and Eve were running aroud in th enude until they traqnsgressed supports what you are expressing here.
As for always quoting the Scripture, you are posting from your understanding of thw Word, and this is of far more value than cutting and pasting the entire Bible. God bless you and keep you close always.
As for always quoting the Scripture, you are posting from your understanding of thw Word, and this is of far more value than cutting and pasting the entire Bible. God bless you and keep you close always.
Mar09 just posted the following:
Job 12.7 “But ask the animals, and they will teach you, or the birds in the sky, and they will tell you;
8 or speak to the earth, and it will teach you, or let the fish in the sea inform you.
9 Which of all these does not know that the hand of the LORD has done this?
10 In his hand is the life of every creature and the breath of all mankind.
Coincidence? I do not think so...….
Job 12.7 “But ask the animals, and they will teach you, or the birds in the sky, and they will tell you;
8 or speak to the earth, and it will teach you, or let the fish in the sea inform you.
9 Which of all these does not know that the hand of the LORD has done this?
10 In his hand is the life of every creature and the breath of all mankind.
Coincidence? I do not think so...….
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The Bible seems to say no to that idea. For example:
~Deut
Genesis 1
27 God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.
Ecclesiastes 7
29 Behold, I have found only this, that God made men upright, but they have sought out many devices.
~Deut
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a. NO.........Adam was mad after the image of GOD without the knowledge of GOOD/EVIL which came when his eyes were opened from eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil
b. No........it states clearly that Eve was in the transgression, even though she was deceived by the Serpent.....the reason SIN and the SIN nature is passed down is because humanity came from ADAM which chose to eat willfully
The above are summations without listing all the scriptural references which can be listed.
b. No........it states clearly that Eve was in the transgression, even though she was deceived by the Serpent.....the reason SIN and the SIN nature is passed down is because humanity came from ADAM which chose to eat willfully
The above are summations without listing all the scriptural references which can be listed.
P
Following scripture as it appears in Genesis we talk about certain things that are created and it's purpose. But what is not discussed is it's destiny if it fails.
In other words to be fully completely created there must be a plan for what would happen to it if it fails..
For a simple example if I took a piece of paper and set it on fire it turns to ash. That same paper submerged in water becomes soggy and limp tearing apart easily.
A greater example is if the sun failed life on Earth would cease. No warmth, no growth, no benefits.
All of this is by design of our creator...God. no matter how little or big.
When speaking to our first parents God said...if you eat of this tree you shall surly die. Showing that the creation of man was completed.
Many are under assumption that God created man perfect in the beginning... scripture tells us God said it was very good ... not perfect.
Now we have to ask ourselves why.
Adam was created from the dust of the earth...receiving the breath of life from God he was placed in the garden to tend it.
Eve was formed from Adams rib in the garden..... scripture tells us that they were flesh and bone.
They were both designed by the hand of God. Scripture tells us in the image of God. So where did disobedience come from? Was it in the design of God? Was it purposed or choice?
By God knowing what would happen to them if they disobeyed was his plan of redemption the purpose for creation?
In other words to be fully completely created there must be a plan for what would happen to it if it fails..
For a simple example if I took a piece of paper and set it on fire it turns to ash. That same paper submerged in water becomes soggy and limp tearing apart easily.
A greater example is if the sun failed life on Earth would cease. No warmth, no growth, no benefits.
All of this is by design of our creator...God. no matter how little or big.
When speaking to our first parents God said...if you eat of this tree you shall surly die. Showing that the creation of man was completed.
Many are under assumption that God created man perfect in the beginning... scripture tells us God said it was very good ... not perfect.
Now we have to ask ourselves why.
Adam was created from the dust of the earth...receiving the breath of life from God he was placed in the garden to tend it.
Eve was formed from Adams rib in the garden..... scripture tells us that they were flesh and bone.
They were both designed by the hand of God. Scripture tells us in the image of God. So where did disobedience come from? Was it in the design of God? Was it purposed or choice?
By God knowing what would happen to them if they disobeyed was his plan of redemption the purpose for creation?
E
1. No. The sin nature came as a result of sin and the broken relationship between God and man (Man was forced to take care of his own needs, because he rejected God) called spiritual death, (in the day you eat of this tree you will die)
2. No. God sees all sin as equal. He does not give us an excuse, Thats why we are to study to shew ourselves approved. A workman who needs not be ashmaed because he was tricked by the devil. As james said, even if we keep every aspect of the law. If we fail in one area, we are guilty of the whole law. James did not give an out to those people who were tricked into that sin, or did it on accident, or did not know it was sin, He said if you do it, Your cursed (the curse is death). And honestly. Adam and eve prove this point, Satan tricked at least one of them, yet she still died because of her sin. (God did not give her a “do over” because she was tricked)
2. No. God sees all sin as equal. He does not give us an excuse, Thats why we are to study to shew ourselves approved. A workman who needs not be ashmaed because he was tricked by the devil. As james said, even if we keep every aspect of the law. If we fail in one area, we are guilty of the whole law. James did not give an out to those people who were tricked into that sin, or did it on accident, or did not know it was sin, He said if you do it, Your cursed (the curse is death). And honestly. Adam and eve prove this point, Satan tricked at least one of them, yet she still died because of her sin. (God did not give her a “do over” because she was tricked)
E
God wanted to have a relationship with man
In order for this to occure, He had to give man the OPTION of desiring a relationship with god (you can not relate to a robot, it does whatever you want with no questions asked. No one in the history of mechanical robots have ever had a true agape relationship with that robot. He may LOVE what it provides (selfish love) but he does not LOVE it as a being (wishing only to serve the object of his love
For this reason, God had to allow man the opportunity to love and receive Gods love willingly. But also the opportunity to deny and not receive Gods love, and do for themself. (This is the free will conundrum) failure to allow us the opportunity to say no would in reality make us robots, not relational being, which God is,, hence he made us in his image. (Able to chose)
Does this mean Adam and Eve was not created perfect? I do not think so. They were created perfect in all ways. It was not Gods mistake or imperfection that caused them to sin, it was the free will God gave to them which caused them to fall
More amazingly is god, in all his infinite wisdom, KNEW man would rebel. So he also made a plan of salvation. This plan, as a byproduct, would also destroy the lie of satan that God is not a god of love, but a God of evil who makes us his robots demanding we do all he wants, and does not have any desire to take care of our needs. That plan was the cross. And he himself coming to take out penalty on himself.
In order for this to occure, He had to give man the OPTION of desiring a relationship with god (you can not relate to a robot, it does whatever you want with no questions asked. No one in the history of mechanical robots have ever had a true agape relationship with that robot. He may LOVE what it provides (selfish love) but he does not LOVE it as a being (wishing only to serve the object of his love
For this reason, God had to allow man the opportunity to love and receive Gods love willingly. But also the opportunity to deny and not receive Gods love, and do for themself. (This is the free will conundrum) failure to allow us the opportunity to say no would in reality make us robots, not relational being, which God is,, hence he made us in his image. (Able to chose)
Does this mean Adam and Eve was not created perfect? I do not think so. They were created perfect in all ways. It was not Gods mistake or imperfection that caused them to sin, it was the free will God gave to them which caused them to fall
More amazingly is god, in all his infinite wisdom, KNEW man would rebel. So he also made a plan of salvation. This plan, as a byproduct, would also destroy the lie of satan that God is not a god of love, but a God of evil who makes us his robots demanding we do all he wants, and does not have any desire to take care of our needs. That plan was the cross. And he himself coming to take out penalty on himself.
P
Wouldn't you agree that a relationship with God had been established before the fall?. For God joined them in the garden in the cool of the day.
Imo if we say that Adam and Eve were perfect then it is also correct to say that Satan has power over a perfect work of God.
In understanding that God said very good mean that creation would serve God's purpose and intent.
Was the cross plan A or plan B. If God knows the end from the beginning then it was no surprise on the fall. Redemption was in place before the foundations were established. So the question remains was his plan for redemption the reason for creation?
Imo if we say that Adam and Eve were perfect then it is also correct to say that Satan has power over a perfect work of God.
In understanding that God said very good mean that creation would serve God's purpose and intent.
Was the cross plan A or plan B. If God knows the end from the beginning then it was no surprise on the fall. Redemption was in place before the foundations were established. So the question remains was his plan for redemption the reason for creation?
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E
Well of course, That was the purpose for their creation
Well you could. But satan had no power over them. They had no reasonable justification for following satan other than they gave what God had given them, and chose to go a different way.
Very good just means God saw it and it was desirable, or he was very pleased with the way it came out. I would try not to add things to the word of God which are not there. Because it does not mean what you claim it means, it is not found in context. Or the words themselves.
Well lets see, what options did God have
1. Make man, Make them robots, always doing his will. Since there is no free will. They would never sin, and they would ALWAYS do what god wants, which would be quite boring, and god would eventually probably destroy them and start over.
2. Not make man at all. They are going to sin, and turn away from him, so why bother?
3. Destroy all mankind the moment they sinned, and start over. Yet are they ging to sin again? How many times do you start over?
4. Make man anyway, Knowing they would rebel. Make a plan to redeem them yet keep with your character and your sovereign will, and not forcing them all to follow him on this plan. Knowing that MANY would be saved and he would get the pleasure of spending eternity with him?
I mean which one should God have done? Is there another option?
Well you could. But satan had no power over them. They had no reasonable justification for following satan other than they gave what God had given them, and chose to go a different way.
Very good just means God saw it and it was desirable, or he was very pleased with the way it came out. I would try not to add things to the word of God which are not there. Because it does not mean what you claim it means, it is not found in context. Or the words themselves.
Well lets see, what options did God have
1. Make man, Make them robots, always doing his will. Since there is no free will. They would never sin, and they would ALWAYS do what god wants, which would be quite boring, and god would eventually probably destroy them and start over.
2. Not make man at all. They are going to sin, and turn away from him, so why bother?
3. Destroy all mankind the moment they sinned, and start over. Yet are they ging to sin again? How many times do you start over?
4. Make man anyway, Knowing they would rebel. Make a plan to redeem them yet keep with your character and your sovereign will, and not forcing them all to follow him on this plan. Knowing that MANY would be saved and he would get the pleasure of spending eternity with him?
I mean which one should God have done? Is there another option?
Although GOD IS the creator of EVERYTHING and HE IS ALMIGHTY and HE loves righteousness HE made EVERYTHING good,but disobedience to HIS VOICE was transgression/sin against HIS WORD and that was the reason man became weak because of the flesh/mind.
So then man made his choice which was disobedient to GODs WORD and man became carnal,I guess you can say the sin nature became activated by Adam's choice.
Does GOD view sin differently If we are tricked by the devil?
Sin Is not Imputed where there Is no law.
So then man made his choice which was disobedient to GODs WORD and man became carnal,I guess you can say the sin nature became activated by Adam's choice.
Does GOD view sin differently If we are tricked by the devil?
Sin Is not Imputed where there Is no law.
if adam and even were created perfect "in all ways" then they wouldn't have disobeyed. Furthermore, they wouldn't have even listened to the serpent babble on. the fact that they ate of the fruit tells you they were not perfect in all ways.
look at the beast of the field. it fornicates, but it is not guilty of fornication. I think this is what OP was trying to establish as a thought. If it is not what OP was going for, then I apologize but it is what I have been wondering lately.
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