Are these beliefs sufficient for salvation?

We are deemed righteous by believing and trusting in the rightious Words and Act of Jesus..

Romans 5: KJV
17 "For if by one man’s offense death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ. {18} Therefore as by the offense of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of One the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. {19} For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous."

Romans 4: KJV
5 "But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. {6} Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, {7} Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. {8} Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin."

Yep I agree, but I do not know why rev 21 say killer thief etc not go to heaven.

Is "worker not " mean kill or steal?

Works deals with Good works.. Works of religion.. Work of avoiding sin.. But in the very same verse it also covers the iniquities ( that is sins ) that are forgiven.. So that verse is saying that our Works don't save us but that having our sins forgiven and covered does result in us being saved...

I talk to Muslim about it, he say : " behind this teaching is encouraging killing"

He mean if killing or robbing not make you to hell, why not rob the bank.

How you explain to this man

How about this verse

John 15:6

6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

""" if killing or robbing not make you to hell, why not rob the bank """

That kind of comment shows that the person who thinks this way only avoids doing evil out of fear of punishment and thinks that the only reason why everyone else does not rob banks rape and murder is because they fear punishment also.. What kind of evil heart does a person have if they only resist doing evil out of fear of retribution?

The right spirit is to strive to avoid evil because one hates evil and agrees with God that doing evil.. is evil..

If a person hates evil and loves Good and thus agrees with the standards of God they will hate it when they do evil and thus they will not do evil often..

The same thing is true for doing good.. If a person only gives charity or helps others because they are looking for a reward in heaven then are they really have a heart felt desire for doing good? People who love what is good get personal joy out of doing good when they are fortunate enough to get into a position to be able to help others.. The Bible declares that God loves a cheerful giver..

2 Corinthians 9: KJV
7 "Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver."

The right spirit is to love what is Good and to hate what is Evil.. If a person believes the Gospel message of Jesus they will love what is good and hate what is evil.. So the forgiveness of God will not cause such a person to go running after sin using the grace of Jesus as a license to sin because in their conscience they are guided by Gods Holy Spirit..

Than how do you explain this verse

1 Corinthians 6:9
“Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,”


Rev 21:8

But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that

For 1 Cor 6, you should read on

11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Paul was explaining that they used to be unrighteous because they did not accept Christ Jesus as their substitute, hence they are deemed as unrighteous. But now they are justified by Christ.

As I have said, this is an eternal justification, you cannot lose it thru works of the flesh, otherwise, it will be temporal.

As for Rev 21:8, it refers to people who are left behind to face the Tribulation. The Church would have been raptured to be with the Lord before that, so those will not apply to the Church.

Incidentally, if you take that passage seriously, those who live in fear and unbelief are actually first on the list to the lake of fire. Surely you know of Christians who do not believe that God has healed them, those who worry about their future. In God's eyes, those "sins" are as serious, or even more serious, than murderers. Only humans rank sins on a curve.

But you are washed........
Sanctified.......

If an adulterer washed is he not stop from adultery?

I have a friend, he say he repent and become new creation.

He couched stealing motel room almost every week end.
I wonder what the different between man being washed and not

If Jesus in his heart, is he keep stealing room for making love with his girl friend?

But you believe he is save because only adulterer after rapture go to hell am I correct?

Any way what verse say that only adulterer after rapture go to hell and adulterer before rapture go to heaven.

First, I don't understand why you keep insisting that someone is who is under grace, will go ahead and commit adultery, steal and murder. Do you not understand the power of the Christ DBR in a believer's life?

For your friend here, I will apply what Paul did for the most carnal church in his letters, the Corinth Church.

I will remind him that he is "still" the righteousness of God in Christ. He needs to renew his mind that, because God is his provider, he does not need to steal anything.

I don't understand what you mean when you said "he keep stealing room for making love with his girl friend"?

So if one tell you he is new creation and keep killing you do not believe it, am I correct?

While I am typing, my sister tell the story that happen in Kalimantan, indonesia.

A woman pastor being kill by her own member, her member in love with her and want to marry her, she refused than he kill her.

Do you think he go to heaven because of justification?

Seem to me you do not believe Christian not change, but if not he go to heaven, am I correct?

Incidentally, if you take that passage seriously, those who live in fear and unbelief are actually first on the list to the lake of fire. Surely you know of Christians who do not believe that God has healed them, those who worry about their future. In God's eyes, those "sins" are as serious, or even more serious, than murderers. Only humans rank sins on a curve.

The above paragraph worries me. Fear and unbelief are "sins" more serious than murderers.

This is emotional dynamite. It is attempting to destroy fear of God over sin, and the desire to
resolve sin, through grief, sorrow, and restitution, putting things right. This very position is in
opposition to God and the gospel, and why on forums such as these divisions and aggressive words
are spoken to God fearing and Jesus following believers, all in the name of faith.

Fear is the beginning of wisdom, recognising our limitations and working within them, in reverent
fear and worship of the King we serve.

10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom; all who follow his precepts have good
understanding. To him belongs eternal praise
Psalm 111

2 The Spirit of the LORD will rest on him- the Spirit of wisdom and of understanding, the Spirit
of counsel and of power, the Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD -
3 and he will delight in the fear of the LORD. He will not judge by what he sees with his eyes, or
decide by what he hears with his ears;
4 but with righteousness he will judge the needy, with justice he will give decisions for
the poor of the earth.
Isaiah 11

I am merely using the KJV version of that passage that he used dear

Revelation 21:8 King James Version (KJV)
8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Ever asked why this particular passage put these 2 particular sins as the first to go in the lake of fire?

1. So you believe if a person love God they hate sin, am I correct?

2. You also believe a person that love God do sin

So a person that love God hate sin but do sin

And if a person that do not love God do sin go to hell, but a person that love god do sin go to heaven am I correct?

Love God not stop people to do sin, am I correct?

Thank you for this passage.
Fearful - cowardly - fear driven - those who compromise everything based on threats and fear.
Unbelieving - those who reject God and His ways.

What is interesting is how different groups interpret these two ideas.
Fear is evil, unbelief is defined as anything that rejects the "accepted" gospel.

Without interpretation it is possible to make these two words into something
that is not scriptural or healthy. I am therefore sensitive how people use these
words as they have been used to disown my very experience in God, and deny
spiritual men of God like Elijah.

Fear is something God given that keeps us alive. People who have no fear often
end up dead, because they have no limit on the risks they take, and in the end
they go to far. Look up free climbers, and you will begin to understand those who
have too little fear.

1 John 4:18
There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

NO - definitely not what is written and taught by Jesus and the apostles. Way, way short.
Here is a good place to start ...

37 Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?”
38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
39 For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself.”
40 And with many other words he bore witness and continued to exhort them, saying, “Save yourselves from this crooked generation.”
41 So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.
Acts 2: