Faith/Works...How much faith? How much works?

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Dec 27, 2018
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Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all defilement of flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

I personally believe he is not taking about that which has been born from above by incorruptible seed or that spirit which does not sin....

I think he is talking about what we do and say.......This is covered also under not letting corrupt communication proceed from our mouth.....our two witnesses <--what we do and or say.........

pneuma: wind, spirit
Original Word: πνεῦμα, ατος, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: pneuma
Phonetic Spelling: (pnyoo'-mah)
Definition: wind, spirit
Usage: wind, breath, spirit.
Fair and valid interpretation.

So then, would you say that pneuma in 2 Cor. 7:1 has a different meaning than pneuma in Hebrews 12 where it speaks of spirits of just men made perfect? Because clearly what we do and say is not perfect till we are at home with the LORD
 
Dec 27, 2018
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It wouldn't be right If I let this go.
I know you don't mean this to blaspheme GOD but here Is scripture that says the spirits of JUST men were made perfect.
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Hebrews 12:23
King James Version

23To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

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Who made the spirits of just men perfect?
When the bible says we are HIS workmanship, HIS workmanship means GODs workmanship.
There is no blasphemy, because it is God who works in us to will and to do of His Good pleasure, whether saving faith or whether the effects that follow saving faith.
 
Dec 27, 2018
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Fair and valid interpretation.

So then, would you say that pneuma in 2 Cor. 7:1 has a different meaning than pneuma in Hebrews 12 where it speaks of spirits of just men made perfect? Because clearly what we do and say is not perfect till we are at home with the LORD
The Spirit that cannot sin is the Holy Spirit. Our spirits can sin as well as our bodies and souls. That is why Paul wrote...

And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. (1 Thessalonians 5:23 )

If it was impossible for our human spirit to sin, it would not need to be PRESERVED BLAMELESS by Christ until the coming of Christ.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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The Spirit that cannot sin is the Holy Spirit. Our spirits can sin as well as our bodies and souls. That is why Paul wrote...

And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. (1 Thessalonians 5:23 )

If it was impossible for our human spirit to sin, it would not need to be PRESERVED BLAMELESS by Christ until the coming of Christ.
If our spirit that is born again sin it is corruptible......the bible states we are born again of INCORRUPTIBLE SEED
 
Dec 27, 2018
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If our spirit that is born again sin it is corruptible......the bible states we are born again of INCORRUPTIBLE SEED
The incorruptable seed is the Word of God. 1 Peter 1;23. This can be interpreted as the Bible or Jesus, but reading the verse, I think it must refer to Jesus. He is the incorruptible seed, and sinless, not us or our spirit.
 
Dec 27, 2018
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The incorruptable seed is the Word of God. 1 Peter 1;23. This can be interpreted as the Bible or Jesus, but reading the verse, I think it must refer to Jesus. He is the incorruptible seed, and sinless, not us or our spirit.
The fact remains that a verse that I quoted earlier, the one in 1 Thess. teaches that our SPIRITS must be preserved blameless. (1 Thess. 5: 23) This is accomplished by the continuing mediation and work of Christ, and of the Holy Spirit. If our spirit was inc(orruptible, it would not need to be preserved, would it? (see 1 Thessalonians 5:23)

The seed (Jesus) is incorruptible. Nothing about ourselves is incorruptible, if it were, it would not need to be preserved.

Jesus is our life preserver and His Life is our preservative. :)
 
Dec 27, 2018
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The incorruptable seed is the Word of God. 1 Peter 1;23. This can be interpreted as the Bible or Jesus, but reading the verse, I think it must refer to Jesus. He is the incorruptible seed, and sinless, not us or our spirit.
Correction of the post above...the Living and Abiding Word of God is the Word of the Lord proclaimed unto them (vs 25b) (see also Isaiah 40:6-8) This is the incorruptible seed. It does not mean that the redeemed spirit is incorruptible in the sense that it cannot sin. It only means that the seed which begat it is incorruptible. IF our human spirits were incorruptible in reference to sin, our spirits would not need to be preserved blameless (1 Thess. 5:23)
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
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If our spirit that is born again sin it is corruptible......the bible states we are born again of INCORRUPTIBLE SEED
I have a problem thinking this idea through.
I sin, I steal something from someone.

Now is this just my body that sinned. My heart, my soul, my spirit are not involved? Or are they not
all part of everything I do, indivisible. I am my heart, my soul and my spirit. Without any one of these
things I am dead. At best one can say addictive desires, responses, lusts took over and now the dominate,
but all parts are still involved. When I think, do not all parts know and participate and effect the final
outcome?

And which part of us is thrown into the fire? Just our bodies or is it everything?
Now if everything is punished, then everything is responsible for sin and cannot disown part of the
person.

Addicts objectify their behaviour into it is not them, but this other monster which has taken them over.
But what this highlights is we as individuals are passengers on a biological process, which we can take
ownership of and take action, or just let processes work and claim innocence, when this is just declaring
defeat. Because we do not understand a process does not mean we are not involved.

Jesus came as light in the darkness, to empower people to see what is happening and resolve the sin and
chaos, and begin to steer things is a way that is good and honouring to God and ourselves.
 

louis

Senior Member
Nov 1, 2017
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Hey, we have so many of these threads going, why not another?
You have to know God, as God is Love (1 John 4:8 & 16).
If you do not know God, then love does not know you (Matthew 7:22-23), and no amount of good works will do you any good.

1 John 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.



Matthew 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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You have to know God, as God is Love (1 John 4:8 & 16).
If you do not know God, then love does not know you (Matthew 7:22-23), and no amount of good works will do you any good.

1 John 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.



Matthew 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
And the way we know "God is love' is to know God which is through being born again, correct?
 
Dec 9, 2011
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And to continue looking at the spiritual mirror(the bible)and becoming more and more like JESUS.
 

louis

Senior Member
Nov 1, 2017
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And the way we know "God is love' is to know God which is through being born again, correct?
To know God is to know love.
There will be many who will have believed they were born again, to whom the Lord will reply he never knew them.
 
Dec 9, 2011
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I see beauty (the hope of God) and ugliness (my selfishness) in the spiritual mirror
I used the word mirror
If a reBorn christian looks at the spiritual mirror talking about the WORD of GOD they won’t see ugliness they will see the WORD of GOD and believe assured that HIS promises are yes and amen.
When the person looks In the physical mirror they will see the outward man with Its fleshly flaws and desires.
Put your trust In the spiritual mirror.:)
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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To know God is to know love.
There will be many who will have believed they were born again, to whom the Lord will reply he never knew them.
My point is that we can't truly know God, and therefore truly love, unless we have truly been born from above...
Thinking one is born again, when they are not, is a different topic.

BTW, that passage in Matthew 7:22-23 (KJV) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

..has nothing to do with the Born again Christian, who have received the gift of the new birth. Those in Mt 7 were trying to justify their acceptance before God by their performance. (see bold letters)
 

louis

Senior Member
Nov 1, 2017
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My point is that we can't truly know God, and therefore truly love, unless we have truly been born from above...
Thinking one is born again, when they are not, is a different topic.
The Samaritan in Luke 10 who supposedly was not born again, loved not only his neighbor, but loved his enemy...;as the Jews were to the Samaritans.

BTW, that passage in Matthew 7:22-23 (KJV) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

..has nothing to do with the Born again Christian, who have received the gift of the new birth. Those in Mt 7 were trying to justify their acceptance before God by their performance. (see bold letters)
To have professed Christ, they certainly would have believed themselves to have been born again.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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The Samaritan in Luke 10 who supposedly was not born again, loved not only his neighbor, but loved his enemy...;as the Jews were to the Samaritans.
That is a 'supposed' assumption taking a parable or illustrative story (to answer a question) as it's basis.
To have professed Christ, they certainly would have believed themselves to have been born again.
They may have believed they were born again, but to appeal to their own righteousness indicates they were not.
 

louis

Senior Member
Nov 1, 2017
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That is a 'supposed' assumption taking a parable or illustrative story (to answer a question) as it's basis.
The Samaritan knew Love, and Love knows the Samaritan.

They may have believed they were born again, but to appeal to their own righteousness indicates they were not.
I agree with you that they were not born again in God who is Love.