How mysticism is undermining Bible Christianity today

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Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,778
113
#1
What is Mysticism?
Mysticism is not easy to define, but what it means essentially is direct communication with God (or that presumed to be God, including evil spirits) and direct *special* revelations from God (or that presumed to be God, including evil spirits). It is purely subjective (as opposed by Bible Christianity, which is based upon the supernatural divine revelations given to prophets and apostles in the completed Bible, as well as the teaching and revelations of the Lord Jesus Christ).

According to Merriam-Webster mysticism is:
1: the experience of mystical union or direct communion with ultimate reality reported by mystics
2: the belief that direct knowledge of God, spiritual truth, or ultimate reality can be attained through subjective experience (such as intuition or insight)
3a: vague speculation : a belief without sound basis
b: a theory postulating the possibility of direct and intuitive acquisition of ineffable knowledge or power


What is Christian Mysticism?
Christian Mysticism has been practised by Orthodox and Catholic mystics and includes asceticism, contemplative prayer (including the rosary), dreams, visions, ecstasies, stigmata, etc. *Mystics of this class contend that, by self-effacement and devotion to God, individuals may attain to immediate, direct, and conscious realization of the person and presence of God and thus to all truth in Him.* http://www.withchrist.org/mysticism.htm. But today, there is a lot more that has been added to Christian Mysticism as we will note later,

The New Birth is not mystical but supernatural
There is a vast difference between the supernatural New Birth (which makes sinners into children of God by the regenerating power of the Holy Spirit) and mysticism (which is also practiced by pagans) and claims to unite sinners with God without the New Birth. The supernatural power of the Gospel, working with the supernatural power of the Holy Spirit, brings sinners to the Savior in order to become *new creatures in Christ*, and children of God, by grace through faith exclusively in Christ and His finished work of redemption.

This is what Jesus said about the New Birth (John 3:3-7):
Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

This was based upon the promise of the outpouring of the Holy Spirit after the New Covenant went into effect (following the crucifixion of Christ), and is presented in Ezekiel 36:25-27, and shown to be a Christian truth is Hebrews 8:10.

Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them... For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

How Mysticism is undermining Bible Christianity today
1. Claiming a *deeper spirituality* than ordinary *second class* Christians
2. Transcending reason -- however not called irrational but *transrational*
3. Following Origen (the first mystic) in allegorizing and spiritualizing Scripture
4. Promoting *theosis* -- humans becoming *little gods*
5. Promoting heretical Gnosticism – esoteric knowledge for the *enlightened ones*
6. Promoting the use of the rosary and the prayer wheel (both found among pagans)
7. Promoting occultic use of the imagination
8. Promoting Pantheism – that the universe is also God
9. Promoting *breathing*, *soaking*, *journaling*, and *mystical contemplative prayer*
10. Elevating subjective experiences and impressions above the objective written Word of God.


Christians have been warned against Mysticism (Colossians 2)
8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,
19 And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.
20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22 Which all are to perish with the using, after the commandments and doctrines of men?
23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.
 

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
3,258
1,150
113
New Zealand
#2
Ya in New Zealand we have the Methodist church embracing mysticism. Integrating the Dalai Lama's teachings into worship and also deemphasising the deity of Christ.
 
L

Locoponydirtman

Guest
#4
Journaling?
How is writing prayers and taking notes about Bible studies, preacher messages, and the events of your life "mysticism"?
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,188
113
#5
I dont know about mysticism but there is this one book that I am a little sceptical of thats become really popular in nz and its kind of conversations with God. Yes you can have conversations with God but He will also direct you to scripture whilst doing so and He wont go back on his Word.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
113
#6
Bible Christianity? It seems that your view of what "Bible Christianity" is may be undermining what True Christianity actually is.

Ephesians 1:17-21
17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:

What is Paul praying for here if not direct "special" revelations from God?

He's praying that for you. And for me. You don't understand it and can't control it but that doesn't mean its not Christianity. In fact, the bible shows that if you don't have this wisdom and Revelation given by God then your mind is blinded and a vail remains over your heart. (2 Corinthians 3)
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,778
113
#7
So which particular denominations are you taking aim at?
At this point, I believe many evangelical and even fundamental churches are allowing these ideas to creep in. *Emerging* or *Emergent* churches seem to be influenced the most.

Emerging Church Characteristics
Following are some of the common traits I have discovered by reading through Emerging Church material. But please understand that not all Emerging Churches adhere to all the points listed.
  1. An awareness of and attempt to reach those in the changing postmodern culture.
  2. An attempt to use technology, i.e., video, slide shows, internet.
  3. A broader approach to worship using candles, icons, images, sounds, smells, etc.
  4. An inclusive approach to various, sometimes contradictory belief systems.
  5. An emphasis on experience and feelings over absolutes.
  6. Concentration on relationship-building over the proclamation of the gospel.
  7. Shunning stale traditionalism in worship, church seating, music, etc.
  8. A de-emphasis on absolutes and doctrinal creeds
  9. A re-evaluation of the place of the Christian church in society.
  10. A re-examination of the Bible and its teachings.
  11. A re-evaluation of traditionally-held doctrines.
  12. A re-evaluation of the place of Christianity in the world.
https://carm.org/what-emerging-church
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,602
13,861
113
#8
At this point, I believe many evangelical and even fundamental churches are allowing these ideas to creep in. *Emerging* or *Emergent* churches seem to be influenced the most.

Emerging Church Characteristics
Following are some of the common traits I have discovered by reading through Emerging Church material. But please understand that not all Emerging Churches adhere to all the points listed.
  1. An awareness of and attempt to reach those in the changing postmodern culture.
  2. An attempt to use technology, i.e., video, slide shows, internet.
  3. A broader approach to worship using candles, icons, images, sounds, smells, etc.
  4. An inclusive approach to various, sometimes contradictory belief systems.
  5. An emphasis on experience and feelings over absolutes.
  6. Concentration on relationship-building over the proclamation of the gospel.
  7. Shunning stale traditionalism in worship, church seating, music, etc.
  8. A de-emphasis on absolutes and doctrinal creeds
  9. A re-evaluation of the place of the Christian church in society.
  10. A re-examination of the Bible and its teachings.
  11. A re-evaluation of traditionally-held doctrines.
  12. A re-evaluation of the place of Christianity in the world.
https://carm.org/what-emerging-church
Only a few items on this list are inherently problematic: 4b, 5, 6, and 8a. Several of the others are legitimate within certain parameters. The first item is good, so I'm wondering why it's included at all, and the second is completely neutral. It seems that the author(s) of the list included several things that are really 'guilt by association' rather than dangerous in themselves.

Every generation needs to question the faith and embrace it for themselves. Otherwise, people are "Christians" because their parents and grandparents were Christians, rather than because they have their own faith in Jesus. Traditions do need to be examined, and updated or tossed where they are archaic. Because the list doesn't articulate which teachings, doctrines, and practices are being examined, the list ends up like a Canadian Liberal government bill: concise, meaningless, and open to conflicting interpretation.
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
#9
when Jesus says He and the Father are one, thats a mystical statement. guess we should black that passage out of the bible lol.
 

theanointedwinner

Well-known member
Nov 6, 2018
2,058
1,125
113
#10
Say bye bye to all the testimony thread if that is the implication of this thread

And that includes all those inspiring testimony of salvation

Life changing experience, etc.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,778
113
#11
when Jesus says He and the Father are one, thats a mystical statement. guess we should black that passage out of the bible lol.
That is not a mystical but a MYSTERIOUS statement regarding *the Mystery of God and Christ".
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,778
113
#12
Say bye bye to all the testimony thread if that is the implication of this thread. And that includes all those inspiring testimony of salvation. Life changing experience, etc.
Since I already pointed out the difference between the supernatural New Birth and Mysticism, your objection is meaningless. Life changing experiences are not the same as Mysticism, since they involved the supernatural work of the Holy Spirit within people.

On the other hand, pagan Shamanism is mysticism promoting direct communication with (evil) spirits. And it occurs worldwide.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,778
113
#13
Something which Christians should note is that Roman Catholic Mystics are associate with some seriously false doctrines. According to the website Mystics of the Church in which "THE AUTHOR ENDEAVORS ALWAYS TO BE IN COMMUNION WITH THE CATHOLIC CHURCH AND ITS TEACHINGS" we find this statement:

By the express Will of God, the Mystics are united with Jesus and Mary in suffering for the conversion of sinners. As victim souls, they are fastened to the Cross in union with Jesus in order to continue our Saviours offering to the Father, in reparation for our sins. In other words, they are coredeemers with Christ and their mission is to lead souls to God, because while Jesus obtained for us the possibility of our salvation, the work of our conversion and redemption is ongoing.

There is no biblical basis for such an idea.
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
#14
That is not a mystical but a MYSTERIOUS statement regarding *the Mystery of God and Christ".
mysticism - union with deity
Jesus - He and the Father are one

thats the textbook definition of mysticism. it does not get any more crystal clear.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
#15
Jesus prayed that we would know we are one with Him as He is with Father. That’s one Spirit United. Holy.

Sons of God. Is not the Bride, but is also of the Bride. Supernatural or mystical? Is it not both? Is definitely not natural, but is also mysterious, a mystery that only those of God will understand.

True?
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,769
3,678
113
#16
Bible Christianity? It seems that your view of what "Bible Christianity" is may be undermining what True Christianity actually is.

Ephesians 1:17-21
17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:

What is Paul praying for here if not direct "special" revelations from God?

He's praying that for you. And for me. You don't understand it and can't control it but that doesn't mean its not Christianity. In fact, the bible shows that if you don't have this wisdom and Revelation given by God then your mind is blinded and a vail remains over your heart. (2 Corinthians 3)
But implied in all of Paul's teaching is that our connection with God is through the one Mediator between God and man...Jesus Christ. He is not promoting a 'direct connection' of man to God.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,769
3,678
113
#17
when Jesus says He and the Father are one, thats a mystical statement. guess we should black that passage out of the bible lol.
The members of the Trinity have a direct relationship with each other, where as we, not being God, do not.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,778
113
#18
thats the textbook definition of mysticism. it does not get any more crystal clear.
The textbook definition applies to humans. Union within the Godhead is the Mystery of God.
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
#19
The textbook definition applies to humans. Union within the Godhead is the Mystery of God.
so now we can disregard anything Jesus says or teaches when we dont like it by claiming he was not one of us. i thought Hebrews teaches Jesus was tempted just the same as we are tempted, guess we should black out that passage to.
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
#20
The members of the Trinity have a direct relationship with each other, where as we, not being God, do not.
so we use a manmade doctrine to turn holy scripture aside, didnt Jesus teach not to do that.