During Tribulation, is it still Faith only for salvation?

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Robertt

Well-known member
May 22, 2019
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Bahrain
Haha I have got to say.....you take the cake for some of the most off the wall views I have seen in a long time.....

NO Christians Will take the mark.....ONLY THE LOST will take the mark....the ones DELUDED BY GOD BECAUSE THEY WOULD NOT RECEIVE THE LOVE OF THE TRUTH....

Every post you make should have a disclaimer attached to it.......

Something along the lines of....Warning....the following view is found no where in scripture read at your own risk of being led astray!
it all comes down to what is the mark, it is a physical mark or spiritiual one.

Ephesians 1:13 (NIV2011)
13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,

So those in Christ alredy have a mark, a spititual mark.

So if we following wrong doctrine now , are we still marked with his seal? Only God knows i guess.

LEts press into a close relationship with JEsus and love one another for if we love JEsus we will obey his commandments. He will abide in us. And we will be marked and wont fall for false doctrine and then take a different spiritual mark, the mark of false doctrine the mark of the antichrist.

There will be wailing and gnashign of teeth.
 

Robertt

Well-known member
May 22, 2019
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Bahrain
Heres another thought about end times and rapture.

If the rapture happens pre or mid tribulation wouldn't everybody now believe?

I mean the world know Christians been telling them all about this rapture for years , movies made now, it is joked about by many worldly people.

So suddenly these unsaved people wake up and hey no christians left.

Do they suddenly go, " Hey wonder where thet went" or do they go "Wow those christians were right"

If the second then they will call on God and all be saved.

No one will take the mark if christians are taken.

Jsut a thought....
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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No one who believes our Father through His Only Begotten Son will receive the mark of the Beast, however many who call themselves Christian will for Jesus does not lie. He teaches apostasy should abound during the latter times. Well, it does right now.

As for who the Beast is, it seems our Father would not use anyone other than an Israeli though i AM OT completely privvy to our Father's manner of completing thiis age. I do believe Him before I believe the claims of adament, brow-beating self-proclaimed brethren.

Wait on the Holy Spirit's revelation on all things concerning these last times. Never rely on the simple minds of flesh. Allo blessings in Yeshua....
 
Jan 12, 2019
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and I guess that is why the Antichrist will come from within the church as we all cant agree on doctrine... someone is wrong, some one is right, only God knows. But one of us is not going to make it ,
We can both make it since during the church age it could be only faith alone for salvation.

I believe it is while you don’t. That is fine.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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The only reference in the Word to the faithful being taken up to God is when our Savior and King returns sending out His angels to first gather those who sleep in the hope of Messiah and also those who are yet alive in Messiah. This is not in the middle of the great tribulation, it is at the last trump. By the way that trump will be made by God, Himself. pPraise God Amighty, amen.
 

Robertt

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May 22, 2019
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We can both make it since during the church age it could be only faith alone for salvation.

I believe it is while you don’t. That is fine.
Sadly if James is correct and peoples faith is dead . then they wont complete the journey.

But man does what is right in his own eyes as prophesised.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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Sadly if James is correct and peoples faith is dead . then they wont complete the journey.

But man does what is right in his own eyes as prophesised.
Actually there are many works that various Christians will do that God will consider as good in the bema seat of Christ, after they are raptured.

You will be amazed how the simple things you have done, God consider as good and will reward you. That is the beauty of the grace dispensation. :)
 
Jan 12, 2019
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Heres another thought about end times and rapture.

If the rapture happens pre or mid tribulation wouldn't everybody now believe?

I mean the world know Christians been telling them all about this rapture for years , movies made now, it is joked about by many worldly people.

So suddenly these unsaved people wake up and hey no christians left.

Do they suddenly go, " Hey wonder where thet went" or do they go "Wow those christians were right"

If the second then they will call on God and all be saved.

No one will take the mark if christians are taken.

Jsut a thought....
Well, think of it this way, even during the 1000 year reign of Christ, there will still be people on Earth who will not believe in Jesus.

If it can happen then, why not the Tribulation, when there is a very big price to pay for believing in him?
 

Robertt

Well-known member
May 22, 2019
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Bahrain
Well, think of it this way, even during the 1000 year reign of Christ, there will still be people on Earth who will not believe in Jesus.

If it can happen then, why not the Tribulation, when there is a very big price to pay for believing in him?
yes but will they convert during the 1000yrs.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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yes but will they convert during the 1000yrs.
If all of them do, there will be no one for Satan to deceive in the very brief period of time after 1000 years where he will be released for one last final battle.

By allowing this scenario, God will once-and-for-all show humanity that rejecting Him is not based upon the fact that we cannot see Him. Even when people know that God exists, they will still reject Him.
 

Robertt

Well-known member
May 22, 2019
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Bahrain
No idea. all I know is that without faith we cannot please God,

but where does faith come from

Hearing the message. so if we hear so much argument over the word. how will faith ever come
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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If all of them do, there will be no one for Satan to deceive in the very brief period of time after 1000 years where he will be released for one last final battle.

By allowing this scenario, God will once-and-for-all show humanity that rejecting Him is not based upon the fact that we cannot see Him. Even when people know that God exists, they will still reject Him.
Often as not it isnot a matter of individuals not believeing Him, even demons believe in fear, but, it is a case of individuals rejecting Him……….. Come the 100' years anyone woul either accept our Blessed Savior or reject Him if that is possible. I neer gave a thought to your idea put forth here, but now I have to a point. God bless you.
 
S

SpoonJuly

Guest
During the Tribulation, if someone believes Jesus Christ's death burial and resurrection in his heart, but chose to take the mark of the beast, because he does not want to starve to death, would God still considered him saved in the end, because he believed in Jesus?
No saved person will take the mark.
While the flesh is weak, the Holy Spirit that indwells every believer will over ride the flesh at this time.

Salvation has always been by faith alone and always will be.
 
Feb 28, 2016
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it is written:
MATT. 16:25.
For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for My Sake shall find it.'

our whole heart has to belong to our Saviour -
it's written again;
MATT. 10:37.
He that loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than Me,
is not worthy of Me.
1KINGS 13:21.
And Elijah came unto all the people, and said, 'How long halt ye between two opinions? if The LORD be God, follow Him:
but if Baal, then follow him. And the people answered him not a word'.

MATT. 6:25.
Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body,
what ye shall put on. Is not The Life more than meat, and the body than raiment?

HEB. 11:37.
They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins
and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented; - etc.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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it all comes down to what is the mark, it is a physical mark or spiritiual one.

Ephesians 1:13 (NIV2011)
13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,

So those in Christ alredy have a mark, a spititual mark.

So if we following wrong doctrine now , are we still marked with his seal? Only God knows i guess.

LEts press into a close relationship with JEsus and love one another for if we love JEsus we will obey his commandments. He will abide in us. And we will be marked and wont fall for false doctrine and then take a different spiritual mark, the mark of false doctrine the mark of the antichrist.

There will be wailing and gnashign of teeth.
The mark itself has no bearing on what I said.....ALL LOST will be deluded by God and take it...NO SAVED CHILD OF God will take it......and everyone found that does not take it will lose their head!!
 
Jan 12, 2019
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No saved person will take the mark.
While the flesh is weak, the Holy Spirit that indwells every believer will over ride the flesh at this time.

Salvation has always been by faith alone and always will be.
I admire the extent you would believe in order to hold on to that Doctrine.
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
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lol, the part that gets them all is that everyone sees that God sees them as the apple of his eye. This thing is true in that whosoever treats them in an ill manner will be punished for it. The ones though who don't follow the God of their fathers has the advantage of pretending to be one and not believing in God at all and knowing everyone will support them because of who they said they are. Other than that most who know are reluctant to speak of it out loud because of black eyes and so forth while those who don't know speak volumes.
 

cc4

Member
May 21, 2019
31
1
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No saved person will take the mark.
While the flesh is weak, the Holy Spirit that indwells every believer will over ride the flesh at this time.

Salvation has always been by faith alone and always will be.
No saved person will take the mark.
While the flesh is weak, the Holy Spirit that indwells every believer will over ride the flesh at this time.

Salvation has always been by faith alone and always will be.
Everybody from year 70-90 when the book of revelation was written have been able to take the mark. Its a spiritual mark that allows the servants of Yahooah (God) to differentiate between believers and non-believers or the righteous and the wicked.

Matthew 13 clearly teaches that there are only 2 groups of humans on earth, and that Yahoosha (Jesus) will return to save the righteous and destroy the wicked, at THE LAST DAY. The wicked include all people from all nations who refuse to humble themselves and obey the Creators Law, more commonly known as the 10 commandments.

The beast system described in biblical prophecy is ANY & ALL political systems whereby the inhabitants of the earth are deceived to believe anything other than Yahooahs Word as truth. All deception is simply a variation of the original deception which led to sin in eden when eve was deceived by satan whilst adam believed eve.

The last greatest deception perpetrated upon humanity is to have a world politcal system which puposely ignores the Creators instructions regarding His Holy Days. Instead we have a worldwide politcal system which has embraced the reincarnated julian calendar which is more commonly known as the gregorian calendar. This image of the beast speaks to all followers worldwide telling them when to work, rest, and worship, thus defying the Law of Yahooah. Its order and names of months, order of weeks and names of days defies all of Yahooahs clear instructions for time keeping. Even the jews allowed their calendar system to be changed back inthe 4th century under leadership of hillel II, so that the only evidence of the creators calendar remains in His Word as revealed through the Holy Scriptures.

The current gregorian calendar is filled with tributes to pagan gods as months and days bear their names. Remember what Joshua said in 23:7 Do not associate with these nations that remain among you; DO NOT INVOKE THE NAMES OF THEIR gods or swear by them. You must not serve them or bow down to them. Exodus 23:13 "Be careful to do everything I have said to you.DO NOT INVOKE THE NAMES OF OTHER gods; do not let them be HEARD FROM YOUR LIPS.

So the deception already exists in the very names, but not only have the names been changed, but the days have also been manipulated so that its impossible to say that saturday is the sabbath or friday or sunday - its both all of these days and yet none! Look closely at the warnign given in Revelation 13:16 It also CAUSES all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads, 17 so that they SHOULD NOT BE ABLE to BUY or SELL unless they had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of its name.

When shouldn't believers be able to BUY or SELL?

Neh 10:31 "When the neighboring peoples bring merchandise or grain to SELL on the Sabbath, we will not BUY from them on the Sabbath or on ANY HOLY DAY. Every seventh year we will forgo working the land and will cancel all debts.

Nehemiah 13:15 In those days I saw people in Judah treading winepresses on the Sabbath and bringing in grain and loading it on donkeys, together with wine, grapes, figs and all other kinds of loads. And they were bringing all this into Jerusalem on the Sabbath. Therefore I warned them against SELLING food on that day. 16 Also men of Tyre were living there who imported fish and all kinds of merchandise, and SOLD them to the sons of Judah on the SABBATH, even in Jerusalem.… 17 Then I reprimanded the nobles of Judah and said to them, "What is this evil thing you are doing, by PROFANING THE SABBATH DAY?…

People who profane the Sabbath or any Holy Day by BUYING & SELLING are breaking Gods 4th Commandment to humanity of observing His Sabbaths and keeping them Holy. Thus anyone who disobeys the Word of the living God receives the mark of the beast, as the Holy Spirit is withdrawn from their lives. Those who remain faithful to the teaching of Christ and believe in Him will continue to remain sealed as promised in Eph 1:13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit. Now compare this with Rev 14:12 This calls for patient endurance on the part of the people of God who keep His commands and remain faithful to Christ.

How do we avoid receiving the mark of the beast? By remaining obedient to our Creator who says this in Eze 46:1 This is what the Sovereign Lord says: The gate of the inner court facing east is to be shut on the six working days, but on the Sabbath day and on the day of the New Moon it is to be opened. 3 On the Sabbaths and New Moons the people of the land are to worship in the presence of the Lord at the entrance of that gateway.

We are to worhsip our Creator on His New Moon & Sabbath Days in accordance with His calendar which He established at creation in Gen 1:14 And Yahooah said, "Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years. Why can;t the gregorian calendar be the right calendar system? Because New Moon Days can fall on working days or Sabbath Days, but Ezekiel 46 says that they are separate days.

Did Yahoosha confirm this Law during His time on earth? Yes, despite healing several people on the Holy Days, Yahoosha was adamant that believers were not permitted to BUY or SELL as shown in Matthew 21:12 Yahoosha entered the temple courts and drove out all who were BUYING and SELLING there. He overturned the tables of the money changers and the benches of those selling doves.

People were only allowed into the temple to worhsip on Yahooahs Holy Days, and they were not permitted to BUY & SELL on His Holy Days. John describes this in better detail:- John 2:13 When it was almost time for the Jewish Passover, Yahoosha went up to Jerusalem. 14 In the temple courts he found people selling cattle, sheep and doves, and others sitting at tables exchanging money. 15 So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple courts, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables. 16 To those who sold doves he said, "Get these out of here! Stop turning my Father's house into a market!"

Yahoosha took the time to make a whip of cords and then to drive out all who were BUYING & SELLING in the temple on His Holy Day, was a clear warning to all believers who would come to the ONE FAITH in the ONE LORD thereafter. Even after Yahoosha death, scripture records the apostles and disciples continuing to observe Yahooahs Lev 23 Holy Days as a sign of respect for their Creator.

The prophet Hosea describes our current pitiful situation the best when he penned:- Hos 4:6 My people are destroyed from lack of knowledge. "Because you have rejected knowledge, I also reject you as my priests; BECAUSE YOU HAVE IGNORED THE LAW OF YAHOOAH, I also will ignore your children.

They did use the Luni-Sun Callendar in those days and whitout it you cant find the true sabbath!
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
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At best their considered ger toshav...
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
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Robertt said:
Heres another thought about end times and rapture.
If the rapture happens pre or mid tribulation wouldn't everybody now believe?
I mean the world know Christians been telling them all about this rapture for years , movies made now, it is joked about by many worldly people.
So suddenly these unsaved people wake up and hey no christians left.
Do they suddenly go, " Hey wonder where thet went" or do they go "Wow those christians were right"
If the second then they will call on God and all be saved.
No one will take the mark if christians are taken.
Jsut a thought....
Well, think of it this way, even during the 1000 year reign of Christ, there will still be people on Earth who will not believe in Jesus.

If it can happen then, why not the Tribulation, when there is a very big price to pay for believing in him?
Totally agree with your response, Guojing.

Besides, Scripture itself tells us of the TWO CONTRASTING "beliefs" people will come to embrace "IN THAT DAY" (speaking of "the Day of the Lord" time period [FOLLOWING our Rapture!] that will specifically LEAD UP TO His Second Coming to the earth, and will include "the man of sin" and all he will do throughout that time period): 2Th2:10-12 contrasted with 2Th1:10b... "IN THAT DAY" ('the Day of the Lord' time period)... people will either believe what has just taken place [our Rapture/Departure] IS AS Paul (and them) HAD TAUGHT *is INDEED TRUE*... OR they will believe "the FALSE/the pseudei" INSTEAD! (our Rapture/Departure will NOT "convince" those who "received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. FOR THIS REASON, God shall send them strong delusion...")




[note: the "gather[-ing] [verb]" in Matt13:24,30,39,40,49-50 (which is at the time of His Second Coming to the earth) takes place in the EXACT OPPOSITE SEQUENCE as that of our Rapture/Departure--these are distinct!]