Honour or Dishonour

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SpoonJuly

Guest
#21
#21
Dino246 said:
It means, God (the Potter) gets to decide what He does with the clay (people). The clay doesn't tell the potter what it wants to be. A literal potter might use one lump of clay to make a soup tureen, and another to make a chamber pot.

When you find a passage in the KJV confusing, try reading it in a modern translation. :)
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But why so many CHAMBER POTS?
 
R

reneweddaybyday

Senior Member
#24
Mar 23, 2016
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#24
... just a few thoughts:

The potter takes the lump and works it with his hands until it is shaped the way the potter intends.

After that, the vessel goes through the firing process.

How the vessel withstands the shaping / firing process determines whether the vessel meets the criteria to be used as the potter desired.

If the vessel does not withstand the firing process, it may end up in the potsherd ... or possibly used in a manner other than what was initially intended.

As a lump of clay, do I submit myself to the Hand of the Potter?
As a lump of clay, do I remain intact through the firing process (i.e. meet for the master's use)?
 
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#25
Nov 20, 2018
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#25
dcontroversal said:
It means exactly what it states and is applied unto God (The potter) and men (the clay)

SOME vessels are made to bring honor, some are made that bring no honor.....and for sure GOD knows the beginning from the end and has moved accordingly........
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"In view of this, would God turn around and arbitrarily assign some to Hell?"

People choose hell. And God sends them there. Foreordained in Gods view, chosen in ours.
Every single person in my office has chosen hell by rejecting Christ. And they know it full well.
Fully conscious decision, albeit made not comprehending the consequences. Nor the facts pertaining to it.
 
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#27
Nov 20, 2018
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#27
Nehemiah6 said:
I have twisted nothing and we need to understand the meaning of "God made them" in the context of all Scripture, especially the Gospel.

1. Does God offer salvation to all? Absolutely.

2. Did Christ die for the sins of the whole world? Absolutely

3. In view of this, would God turn around and arbitrarily assign some to Hell? ABSOLUTELY NOT.

So in view of the above what does it means when the Bible says this (Rom 9:21-23):
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

The contrast here is between God's wrath and God's mercy (or grace) and who receives one or the other. So (1) when does a person become subject to God's wrath, and (2) how does he become a "vessel of wrath"? The answer is found in John chapter 3.

REJECTION OF CHRIST BRINGS WRATH
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. (John 3:36)

REJECTION OF CHRIST IS A CHOICE
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. (John 3:18,19)

Thus the unbelievers are chosen by God to become vessels of wrath, but ONLY AFTER they made their own choices. But through divine foreknowledge He knows all the outcomes.

Do not accuse me of twisting Scripture when you do not have a proper understanding of Gospel truth. If you are here to learn then learn.
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"But through divine foreknowledge He knows all the outcomes."

Your opinion. And it does not square with Scripture.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#28
Dec 12, 2013
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#28
cv5 said:
"In view of this, would God turn around and arbitrarily assign some to Hell?"

People choose hell. And God sends them there. Foreordained in Gods view, chosen in ours.
Every single person in my office has chosen hell by rejecting Christ. And they know it full well.
Fully conscious decision, albeit made not comprehending the consequences. Nor the facts pertaining to it.
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The wicked go astray from the womb

I am fairly confident that a baby from the womb has no cognative decision making ability concerning good or evil....and I do not view it as choosing he, but rather chosing to reject Christ and or what the word states about hell.......many that go there do not even believe it exists, much less choosing to go there...
 
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#29
Nov 20, 2018
18,461
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#29
dcontroversal said:
The wicked go astray from the womb

I am fairly confident that a baby from the womb has no cognative decision making ability concerning good or evil....and I do not view it as choosing he, but rather chosing to reject Christ and or what the word states about hell.......many that go there do not even believe it exists, much less choosing to go there...
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Completely agree. People are born as rejecters and rebels.
Yet it is equally true that these people have committed the unforgivable sin of blaspheming the Holy Spirit.

Gods intercession and initiative is the salvific initial cause and prime mover.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#30
Dec 12, 2013
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#30
cv5 said:
Completely agree. People are born as rejecters and rebels.
Yet it is equally true that these people have committed the unforgivable sin of blaspheming the Holy Spirit.

Gods intercession and initiative is the salvific initial cause and prime mover.
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Fully agree that God initiates salvation......
 
Robertt

Robertt

Well-known member
#31
May 22, 2019
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Bahrain
#31
So by those who disagree with if having less knowledge you think that all you speak is scriptural.

Luckily lots of scriptures speak of Predestination and the Lord showing his grace by choosing whom he will because he wants to , not for anything we do.

Ephesians 2:8 (KJV)
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

So even FAITH is a GIFT, nothing to do with ourselves at all.
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#33
Jul 18, 2017
24,520
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#33
cv5 said:
"But through divine foreknowledge He knows all the outcomes." Your opinion. And it does not square with Scripture.
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It squares far more with Scripture than the monstrous idea that God contradicts Himself by offering salvation to all and at the same time choosing to assign some to Hell arbitrarily.
 
Robertt

Robertt

Well-known member
#34
May 22, 2019
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Bahrain
#34
Nehemiah6 said:
It squares far more with Scripture than the monstrous idea that God contradicts Himself by offering salvation to all and at the same time choosing to assign some to Hell arbitrarily.
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and yet the scriptures do seem to say he made some to never make it into the kingdom.

So we need to analyse the scripture that say all are going called as most seem to have the line , "to all who believe", so if salvation is only for those that believe and Faith is a gift of God. perhaps scripture aligns and no contradiction at all
 
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#35
Nov 20, 2018
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#35
Nehemiah6 said:
It squares far more with Scripture than the monstrous idea that God contradicts Himself by offering salvation to all and at the same time choosing to assign some to Hell arbitrarily.
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Well.....Gods choice of Jeremiah is quite clear. Does God make choices that seem unfathomable to our puny minds? Doubtless He does. Furthermore we are safe to assume Jeremiah was saved before he ever drew his first breath.

Jer 1:4 etc....

"Now the word of the LORD came to me, saying,

“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you,
and before you were born I consecrated you;
I appointed you a prophet to the nations.”
 
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#37
Nov 20, 2018
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#37
Nehemiah6 said:
It squares far more with Scripture than the monstrous idea that God contradicts Himself by offering salvation to all and at the same time choosing to assign some to Hell arbitrarily.
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Isa 46:3 etc

“Listen to me, O house of Jacob,
all the remnant of the house of Israel,
who have been borne by me from before your birth,
carried from the womb;
even to your old age I am he,
and to gray hairs I will carry you.
I have made, and I will bear;
I will carry and will save."
 
oyster67

oyster67

Senior Member
#39
May 24, 2014
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#39
oyster67 said:
Chamber pots are wonderful. What would we do without 'em?
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1 Corinthians
12:22 Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary:
12:23 And those [members] of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely [parts] have more abundant comeliness.
12:24 For our comely [parts] have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that [part] which lacked:
12:25 That there should be no schism in the body; but [that] the members should have the same care one for another.
12:26 And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.

Our members would suffer without them.
 
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