Do you want the truth? Here is the truth about eschatology

Well, and this phrase "after these" (in 1:19c) is what connects the chronology and timing of things... it connect also with the "After these" of 4:1 (2x) and that [verse] then connects the "WILL SHEW" of 4:1 back to the 1:1 "TO SHEW" (which speaks of the "things which must come to pass IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]…," IOW, he's being "shown" PROPHETIC THINGS [that WILL/SURELY/CERTAINLY/mello come to pass, because "prophesied" to do so] slated to take place "AFTER THESE" [that is, AFTER the 19a/19b things are done playing out/transpiring!])


To wrench a part of the phrase away from it's whole, certainly "changes" the entire meaning being conveyed.

Is the future antichrist not a political figure, is not the birth of Israel (a political nation) a fulfillment of prophecy, is a future one world government not a political structure?

That's why I ask delierious the things I did in the first few pages. You should notice that although things did begin then in fulfillment you should not try to make youself believe everything was which is why the AoD,mark,MoS ect. is something FP cannot answer. Just think your smart your own self...

I will go back and read it

I'll take this as a compliment

I am not understanding how this refutes preterism?

Verse 19: John is told to write about [1] things he had already seen [2] things which were presently taking place, and [3] things which had not yet taken place.

Okay we can look at this from an historical point of view.

ok who took the mark,and worshiped the image prior to ad70?

While the birth of modern Israel was political (and fulfills prophecy to the extent that there is an Israel on earth and a temple in Jerusalem in the future), the Antichrist and his one-world government will be focused on false religion, blasphemy and idolatry. He will be the *Messiah* for the whole world, and politics will be secondary. Also his influence and control will be supernatural in that Satan and the Antichrist will work together to generate worldwide worship of the themselves. The Mark of the Beast will also be connected to the worship of his image. It is all summed up in Revelation 13.

In your understanding according to scripture not modern day speculations what is a "mark"

To hell in a hand basket? This is one of the big problems with futurist eschatologies today. The world is a horribly evil place and we need to be rescued. No we don't. There is so much good in this world. Yeah, bad happens too. The world has always been that way.

I'm not debating you as if you are pre-trib. None of my comments toward you have even addressed that. You are a futurist. The time statements of Scripture don't allow for it and there are dozens of them by Jesus, Peter, James, John and Paul. If you won't believe them, you aren't going to believe me.

Futurists - whether Dispensational Premill (pre-trib), Historic Premill (post-trib), Amillennial, Postmillennial or Partial Preterist - all make the same mistake of trying to make the kingdom physical. The same kingdom Jesus said would never come that way (Luke 17:20-21).

Interesting, yes I have also read another physical third temple with sacrifices re-instituted.... this is completely against what we read in Hebrews.

I already did answer it. The Mark was spiritual and you are trying to make it a PHYSICAL mark. When the first temple was destroyed Ezekiel 8 & 9 records a SPIRITUAL mark being placed on people. Why do you make it physical at the destruction of the second temple? Especially in an apocalyptic book that tells you in the first verse it is encoded in signs.

We don't need to know exactly who or what the AoD or MoS was because Jesus said that generation would see it. Not us. Paul said the same thing to the Thessalonians. That they would see it. Not 2,000 years later.

Jesus said when YOU see the AoD do not go to your house or come in from the field but flee to the hills. Who was he talking to you? Not you. And fleeing to the hills would do no good in a nuclear age.

It doesn't refute Preterism. But TheDivineWatermark and Dcontroversal are talking gibberish. The verse says, in both English and Greek, "Write the things which you have seen (past tense), the things which are (obviously present tense) and the things ABOUT TO take place after this." (future tense indicating IMMINENCE). They are seeing ghosts and grasping at something that isn't there because they don't like what that verse says along with Rev 1:1,3&22:6,7,10,12,20. The message is the same and they are trying to confuse you.

It is always a common practice when one is wrong to attempt to discredit the other person. I know very well what I am talking about and it makes sense. What does not make sense is to spiritualize Jesus return to the earth to end the age where He said that every eye would see Him, as well as spiritualizing the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments so that they are not literal future events.

Again, they are not insults, but contention for the truth of God's word.

"Isaiah 13:9-13 See, the day of the Lord is coming -a cruel day, with wrath and fierce anger--to make the land desolate and destroy the sinners within it.

The stars of heaven and their constellations will not show their light. (Matt.24:29, Rev.6:12-16)

The rising sun will be darkened and the moon will not give its light. (Ditto )

I will punish the world for its evil, the wicked for their sins.

I will put an end to the arrogance of the haughty and will humble the pride of the ruthless.

I will make man scarcer than pure gold, rarer than the gold of Ophir. (Mt.24:22)

Therefore I will make the heavens tremble; and the earth will shake from its place at the wrath of the Lord Almighty, in the day of His burning anger.

Compare with Matt.24:29

Immediately after the tribulation of those days:

‘The sun will be darkened,

and the moon will not give its light;

the stars will fall from the sky,

and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.

Sorry, both Isaiah and Matthew are referring to when Jesus returns to the earth to end the age and not the fall of Babylon.

Compare Isaiah 2:19-21 with Revelation 6:12-17 both referring to the same information at the sixth seal.

Isaiah 2:19-21 Men will flee to caves in the rocks and to holes in the ground from dread of the Lord and the splendor of His majesty, when He rises to shake the earth. In that day men will throw away to the rodents and bats their idols of silver and idols of gold, which they made to worship. They will flee to caverns in the rocks and the overhanging crags from dread of the Lord and the splendor of His majesty when He rises to shake the earth. (Rev. sixth seal)

Compare with Revelation 6:12-17

And when I saw the Lamb open the sixth seal, there was a great earthquake, and the sun became black like sackcloth of goat hair, and the whole moon turned blood red, and the stars of the sky fell to the earth like unripe figs dropping from a tree shaken by a great wind. The sky receded like a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved from its place.

Then the kings of the earth, the nobles, the commanders, the rich, the mighty, and every slave and free man, hid in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains. And they said to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of the One seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb. For the great day of Their wrath has come, and who is able to withstand it?”

The day of the Lord will begin after the resurrection of the dead and the living are changed and caught up. At that point the entire church will meet the Lord in the air where He will fulfill His promise in John 14:1-3 to take us back to the Father's house.

Isa 2-4 was fulfilled in the 1st century when God purged the blood of Jerusalem by the judgment that came upon that generation:

(Isa 4:4 When the Lord has washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and purged the blood of Jerusalem from her midst, by the spirit of judgment and by the spirit of burning )

(Luke 11:50 that the blood of all the prophets which was shed from the foundation of the world may be required of this generation, )

(Luke 11:51 “from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah who perished between the altar and the temple. Yes, I say to you, it shall be required of this generation )

John is quoting Jesus in Rev 6:16:

(Luke 23:28 But Jesus, turning to them, said, “Daughters of Jerusalem, do not weep for Me, but weep for yourselves and for your children. )

(Luke 23:29 For indeed the days are coming in which they will say, ‘Blessed are the barren, wombs that never bore, and breasts which never nursed!’

(Luke 23:30 Then they will begin ‘to say to the mountains, “Fall on us!” and to the hills, “Cover us! )

Audience relevance has is that Jesus is warning the women of His generation.

As for post #214,
This is what I showed you in post #9 delirious,,,,the bible says the ones who don't worship the image are killed by the beast,,,it is not spiritual in Scripture.

I do believe the mark existed and I do believe that people were killed for not worshipping him as God....that would have been the Emperor Nero

Revelation was written after 70AD, so the events in 70AD have no bearing on what is being said in Revelation.