Do you want the truth? Here is the truth about eschatology

[delirious]

Revelation was written after 70AD, so the events in 70AD have no bearing on what is being said in Revelation.

Do you believe that because of Irenaeus? The same guy who thought Jesus was 50 years old when He was crucified. Irenaeus' statement in the Greek is completely ambiguous. There are two choices. He could have been referring to John Himself or the book of Revelation. FWIW, it is interesting that church tradition has John living to be very old.

If a person understands correctly that Revelation is about the destruction of old covenant Israel and the fulfilling of everything written in the law and prophets (Matt 5:17-18 & Luke 21:22) then it becomes clear that the book was written before 70 AD. We don't need outside sources to guess and try and tell us when they think it was written. The contents of the book tell you when it was written.

 

[dcontroversal]

We have an Opticians advert here in the UK where people do ridiculous things because they have the wrong glasses'
It ends with ''You should have gone to Specsavers'' It reminds me of some on sight who seem to have chosen the wrong lenses
when they read the Bible.

All I know is to say that the world has a lot of good in it and does not need to be rescued is as far from the truth as can be, nor would the Spirit of God lead one to say such drivel....and for sure God would not lead ANOTHER believer to like that lie that is straight from the pit!

 

[delirious]

As for post #214,
This is what I showed you in post #9 delirious,,,,the bible says the ones who don't worship the image are killed by the beast,,,it is not spiritual in Scripture.

If you want to remain hung up on Rev 13 and ignore the dozens of verses that tell us the TIME when God's kingdom would come (Luke 21:31-32) that is up to you. I understand why people do it. They don't want to lose their "rapture", or their earthly kingdom, or their chance at escape. But the reality is, you can't lose what was never there. Don't Christians want the truth? Those verses are very clear. I apologize I don't mean to beat you over the head about this but I marvel at people's obstinance.

What do you think all those verses in my original post mean? I put them together like that because I was hoping people would recognize the picture that they paint. It didn't begin then. It ended then. That's why Peter says in 1 Peter 4:7, "the end of all things is at hand." What do you think all those verses mean?

 

[delirious]

Everyone on CC will KEEP ARGUING until either the Lord returns, or they all die of old age.

The Lord already returned a long time ago so it will be the latter.

 

[tanakh]

Revelation was written after 70AD, so the events in 70AD have no bearing on what is being said in Revelation.

There is some controversy around the date that Revelation was written. The late date relies on the statement made by Irenaeus
which can be interpreted differently. There is also a copy of Revelation that states that Nero was in power when John wrote the book. Apart from that not widely known that Domitian stood in as Emperor for six months before AD70. In Revelation John is told to measure the Temple which would be difficult if it was in ruins. The same instructions were given to Ezekiel who was carried to Jerusalem by the Holy Spirit to do the measuring.

 

[delirious]

The full Preterist interpretation of eschatology fails to take into account the fact that the Temple and City were desecrated/destroyed
twice before the AD70 destruction by the Babylonians and the Seleucids. In both cases Israel was restored. You may notice that
its happening again. The prophecies often have more that one application. The Bible consists of types and symbols that lead to
a culmination of events bringing about the new heavens and earth. I'm not denying that the events of AD70 were not an important
part of the process and were prophesied by Jesus. But to squeeze everything into that one period takes a remarkable feat of manipulation and a huge amount of misplaced faith in the writings and studies of others.

Tell me which one of those verses I manipulated and how? And you are making assertions that I put "misplaced faith in the writings and studies of others" but in my original post I listed no writers but God.

You are making the same mistake that 99% of the church has made on eschatology for 2,000 years. You are trying to make the kingdom PHYSICAL and it is not (Luke 17:20-21, John 14:23, Col 1:27, Rev 3:20). And you are ignoring dozens of clear time statements for when Christ's kingdom would come.

The ONLY possible fulfillment according to Jesus, Peter, James, John, Paul and the other NT writers was the first century. You are also trying to say there is multiple fulfillments of the SAME prophecy. Please give some examples from Scripture.

Why did Peter in 1 Peter 4:7 say, "The end of ALL things is AT HAND"?
Why did James say in James 5:8, "The coming of the Lord is AT HAND"?
Why did John say in 1 John 2:18, "It is the LAST HOUR"?
Why did the writer of Hebrews in Heb 10:37 say in the Greek, "Hoson, Hoson, Mikron" which in English is a "very, very, little" while He who was coming would come and NOT DELAY. Mikron is where we get the English word for micro. The Lord came a long time ago. I didn't get that from theologians. I got that from the Bible.

 

[delirious]

All I know is to say that the world has a lot of good in it and does not need to be rescued is as far from the truth as can be, nor would the Spirit of God lead one to say such drivel....and for sure God would not lead ANOTHER believer to like that lie that is straight from the pit!

I mean this with all due respect sir, I truly do, but it is going to sound harsh so I apologize in advance.

You are the type of person who in the middle ages would have burned people at the stake for disagreeing with you, calling them heretics, and in your ignorance thought you were offering service to God.

 

[dcontroversal]

I mean this with all due respect sir, I truly do, but it is going to sound harsh so I apologize in advance.

You are the type of person who in the middle ages would have burned people at the stake for disagreeing with you, calling them heretics, and in your ignorance thought you were offering service to God.

Keep dreaming pal...and keep peddling the world is good and does not need to be rescued.....

Take that up with John and all the prophetic utterances that speak to the current world facing the fiery indignation of God.....see how your view holds up when it gets torched!!

 

[Chester]

The Bible have been so mis-interpreted for a long time and most of it is not our fault because it was God’s plan that we would be blinded from the truth for a period of time. Praise God that at his appointed time he will reveal the mysteries of his word unto us all so that there will be no doubts about his plans and purpose.

We are at the time of the end for sure and some of us are beginning to receive revelation of the truth. Because the kingdom of God is like unto leaven, those who are getting the truth will release it until all the true children of God receive the truth because it will become clear to all of us.

God bless

Are you one of those that God is revealing new truths to for the end times?

 

[Noose]

There is some controversy around the date that Revelation was written. The late date relies on the statement made by Irenaeus
which can be interpreted differently. There is also a copy of Revelation that states that Nero was in power when John wrote the book. Apart from that not widely known that Domitian stood in as Emperor for six months before AD70. In Revelation John is told to measure the Temple which would be difficult if it was in ruins. The same instructions were given to Ezekiel who was carried to Jerusalem by the Holy Spirit to do the measuring.

None of those statements meant a physical temple in Jerusalem just like Jesus never meant the physical temple here:

John 2:19 Jesus answered, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up again.” 20“This temple took forty-six years to build,” the Jews replied, “and You are going to raise it up in three days?” 21But Jesus was speaking about the temple of His body.

 

[Leastamongmany]

Excuse me but,ARE YOU EVEN A BELIEVER IN THE FATHER,THE SON,AND THE HOLY SPIRIT? I agree there are many HIDDEN truths in God's word. We are to search the scriptures daily for it is there we find the way God leads,and wants us to go! Your thoughts and YOUR way of putting together the word is erroneous,you WILL NOT decieve a true believer in their hope found in what is written! If this is your MAIN focus in your walk( that is IF you are a follower of Christ) you my friend need to pray and ask the Holy Spirit to take control and lead you into a right way of thinking,least WHEN THAT....DAY.... COMES YOU BE FOUND WANTING! May God give peace to your troubled mind!🙏

 

[UnderGrace]

The full Preterist interpretation of eschatology fails to take into account the fact that the Temple and City were desecrated/destroyed
twice before the AD70 destruction by the Babylonians and the Seleucids. In both cases Israel was restored. You may notice that
its happening again. The prophecies often have more that one application. The Bible consists of types and symbols that lead to
a culmination of events bringing about the new heavens and earth. I'm not denying that the events of AD70 were not an important
part of the process and were prophesied by Jesus. But to squeeze everything into that one period takes a remarkable feat of manipulation and a huge amount of misplaced faith in the writings and studies of others.

Can you please tell me where is the line of demarcation between what is fulfilled and what is yet to be fulfilled. You can use the Olivet Discourse or Revelations. Thank you.... am very curious.

 

[UnderGrace]

Audience relevance has is that Jesus is warning the women of His generation.

Has anyone yet responded to this?
A lot of emotion and derisive comments though.

 

[Noose]

Do you believe that because of Irenaeus? The same guy who thought Jesus was 50 years old when He was crucified. Irenaeus' statement in the Greek is completely ambiguous. There are two choices. He could have been referring to John Himself or the book of Revelation. FWIW, it is interesting that church tradition has John living to be very old.

If a person understands correctly that Revelation is about the destruction of old covenant Israel and the fulfilling of everything written in the law and prophets (Matt 5:17-18 & Luke 21:22) then it becomes clear that the book was written before 70 AD. We don't need outside sources to guess and try and tell us when they think it was written. The contents of the book tell you when it was written.

Not because of Irenaeus but because of:

Simple instruction from within the bible itself.

Matt 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

Rev 10:11And they told me, “You must prophesy again about many peoples and nations and tongues and kings.”

The gospel is a witness to all nations not just Jerusalem and following how the apostles preached (Acts of the Apostles), you'll find out their work globally, spread to early 60AD. And this was not their written work, just their movements only. With a lot of persecution happening in the 60AD, their movement were restricted and some were jailed, so the epistles came in handy and this IMO, pushed the time beyond 70AD. So almost impossible to have Revelation as the last book before 70AD.

Q. Why were they supposed to preach the gospel to every nation as a witness before the end, when the end would only occur in Jerusalem

 

[Oncefallen]

For the record:

The Admin team of Christian Chat does not agree with or approve of the heresy of Full Preterism.

 

[garee]

Please read these verses and tell me what they all have in common:

Matt 10:23, Matt 16:27-28, Matt 24:34, Mark 8:38-9:1, Mark 13:30, Luke 9:26-27, Luke 21:31-32, 1 Peter 4:7, James 5:8, 1 John 2:18, Rev 1:1, Rev 1:3, Rev 22:6, Rev 22:7, Rev 22:10, Rev 22:12, Rev 22:20.

Then we have these verses that use the Greek word "mello" (G3195 Strong's Concordance) in the present infinitive which always implies IMMINENCE. The word is often translated "will" in English because of the translators false presuppositions. It should be translated in English "about to". The verses are:

Rev 1:19, Acts 17:31, Acts 24:15, 2 Timothy 4:1, 1 Peter 5:1, James 2:12, Heb 10:27, Acts 28:6

Then you have Daniel. He is given a 70 weeks prophecy for his people and his city (Dan 9:24). Daniel Chapters 10-12 give details about that 70 weeks. At the end of that 70 weeks in Daniel 12 we find this:

Daniel 12:4, "seal up the book until the time of the end" Revelation 22:10 says, "Don't seal for the time is at hand"

Daniel 12:7, "when the power of the holy people is completely shattered all will be fulfilled" This occurred with the destruction of the temple in 70 AD.

Daniel 12:13, Daniel is told he will rise to his inheritance at the end of the days (see also Matt 25:34). Jesus said all who believed in Him He would raise on the last day (John 6:39,40,44,54) This was the last day of old covenant Israel in 70 AD and is what Daniel's 70 weeks prophecy is about. His people and their city.

And finally...Matt 5:17-18. Make sure you read that with Luke 21:22. Jesus came to fulfill everything written in the Law and Prophets. When all was fulfilled it would pass away. The book of Hebrews, written in the 60's AD, says the law was "ready to pass away" (Hebw born again ril 8:13).

Jesus said not one jot or tittle could pass until everything was accomplished. This happened with the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple and the end of old covenant Israel. We have been living in the new heavens and earth (not a physical place) for 2,000 years. God bless you.

The Jot or title ( letter of the law of killer ) The perfect Law, will be in effect until the "last day". The same day the second death is destroyed to confirm the Jot and tile had served it purpose. and simotaniiously a new body for those whose born again spirit will rise. All in the twinkling of a eye.

 

[garee]

No. This is what happens when you don't understand Greek and go to Biblehub. I'm not trying to be insulting so I apologize if I sound that way. When "mello" is combined with a verb in the "infinitive" it implies imminence. All 8 are in the present infinitive. Those verses are saying the same as the rest of the verses I listed are saying. The kingdom was imminent and would begin at the temple's destruction when the law passed away.

Christ's second coming was through the Romans and He says in Matt 22:7 that they were His armies. That is the same way the Father always came in the Old Testament. Unseen. Invisible. That's why Jesus talks about coming in the glory of the Father with all the holy angels. Notice the next verse in Matt 22:8 it says the wedding, the same wedding/marriage supper of the Lamb in Rev 19, was READY at the time of Jerusalem and the temple's destruction.

 

[garee]

Tell me which one of those verses I manipulated and how? And you are making assertions that I put "misplaced faith in the writings and studies of others" but in my original post I listed no writers but God.

You are making the same mistake that 99% of the church has made on eschatology for 2,000 years. You are trying to make the kingdom PHYSICAL and it is not (Luke 17:20-21, John 14:23, Col 1:27, Rev 3:20). And you are ignoring dozens of clear time statements for when Christ's kingdom would come.

The ONLY possible fulfillment according to Jesus, Peter, James, John, Paul and the other NT writers was the first century. You are also trying to say there is multiple fulfillments of the SAME prophecy. Please give some examples from Scripture.

Why did Peter in 1 Peter 4:7 say, "The end of ALL things is AT HAND"?
Why did James say in James 5:8, "The coming of the Lord is AT HAND"?
Why did John say in 1 John 2:18, "It is the LAST HOUR"?
Why did the writer of Hebrews in Heb 10:37 say in the Greek, "Hoson, Hoson, Mikron" which in English is a "very, very, little" while He who was coming would come and NOT DELAY. Mikron is where we get the English word for micro. The Lord came a long time ago. I didn't get that from theologians. I got that from the Bible.

We walk by faith not what the eyes see, the temporal

I would agree no physical corruptible kingdom that could come by walking by sight.The Spirit of Christ will come on the "last day".

One of the better tools that seems to gets put to side by the literalist and you also it seems .The kingdom of God does not come by what the eyes see .It is not of this corrupted creation rather than walking by faith .

Judgment day for death and in the same twinkling of the eye the new creature *Christians) They will receive their new incoruutped bodies. Not flesh and blood it cannot enter the new order,…..Nothing corruptible will

John 11:24Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

John 12:48He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day

I would think we should use the faith tools he has given us the as the 20/20 prescription that it seems the literalist stay away from

2 Corinthians 4:18While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

The time period God used Jewish flesh as a metaphor in a parable which was a type of the abomination of desolation standing in the unseen Holy Place. It had to cone to a end God is not a man as us never was never could be.

There are those today who would say; "lets rebuild that in which God destroyed" by the reformation.

It would seem they are not informed of the reformation and its purpose. Or those that would again an offer some sort of outward demonstration of the lamb of God slain from before the the foundation of the world. only one promised.

The demonstration is not the work literal unseen work of God poring out his unseen Spirit on flesh.

Jesus says his flesh profits for nothing .In most cases that is also ignoreed in exchange of a fleshly Jesus .Or called a Daysman

The one time demonstration spoken of in Isiah 53 has come to end . Jesus left clear instruction. . . In affect stating. . . I am not a man like you are neither is their a infallible flesh interpret. You should of taken a snap shot it would last longer.

2 Corinthians 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, "yet now henceforth know we him no more".

 

[iamsoandso]

If you want to remain hung up on Rev 13 and ignore the dozens of verses that tell us the TIME when God's kingdom would come (Luke 21:31-32) that is up to you. I understand why people do it. They don't want to lose their "rapture", or their earthly kingdom, or their chance at escape. But the reality is, you can't lose what was never there. Don't Christians want the truth? Those verses are very clear. I apologize I don't mean to beat you over the head about this but I marvel at people's obstinance.

What do you think all those verses in my original post mean? I put them together like that because I was hoping people would recognize the picture that they paint. It didn't begin then. It ended then. That's why Peter says in 1 Peter 4:7, "the end of all things is at hand." What do you think all those verses mean?

lol, on page 2 post #39 I suggested to you to do a google search of the soon,near,at hand type wording used by our Lord in the OT have you done so?
If not you might find it interesting just how many times the Lord speaking through prophets used that same "soon,near,at hand ect." when speaking of the "day of the Lord"

In Hebrew the word most often used is str.#7138 (qurob) Zephaniah 1:14-18,Ezekiel 30:3-4,,,Joel 1:15,,,Obadiah 1:15-16,,,Isaiah 13:6-9,,,ect.ect if you notice they all say that the day of the lord is near,at hand ect. but they were all written about 700-600bce (the Lord has always spoken as if the day of the Lord was near)...

 

[JamOn]

Here, you are simply supplying the word "day" (that is not in the text)… so you are making it to say, "2300 evenings mornings DAYS"... I'm not doing that, I'm simply supplying [in bracketed comment], "2300 evenings mornings [sacrifices]" [count 2300 of THOSE] (I tend to believe this would have fallen precisely BETWEEN two very specific calendar dates [equaling 1150 days], in the Hebrew calendar of the time--I'm not sure others [with differing views] could say the same).

WHY would "I WANT" it to be one or the other? Are you just assuming that I think this verse refers to our future (as opposed to past event, back then)? or what??

I'm simply comparing this phrase "evenings mornings" [with no word "DAY" accompanying it] to elsewhere, where used (and it's used in reference to the evening and morning sacrifices ['perpetual'/'dailies'] written of in those contexts... and Daniel does mention one in 9:21, so this is not as far-fetched as you seem to think it is )

A speculation as well, I can compare evenings and mornings, there was 12 evenings and mornings in genesis.