Faith is a work.

When you read the following extract from Acts 21

18 And the day following Paul went in with us unto James; and all the elders were present.

19 And when he had saluted them, he declared particularly what things God had wrought among the Gentiles by his ministry.

20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:

21 And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.

22 What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come.

23 Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them;

24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.

25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.

Tell me how you would answer the following questions

1. What did James and the elders believe Jews should do? From verse 20, is believing good enough for them?
2. What did they want Paul to do?
3. Do they want the Gentiles to be just as zealous as the Jews are about the Law?

Don't read into the bible, just read that passage literally and tell me what does it say.

Nice point about the digestion, I have to say.

Just like you, when I read him stating that he had "thoroughly dealt with these these passages of scripture" in those posts. I was chuckling too and in my vernacular English, I would say "He ownself praise ownself!"

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. (Act 2:38 KJV)

Previously the crowd had been shouting "crucify HIM." Now they were getting baptised in HIS name. The only name that saves. Water does not save. Baptism on its own is of no avail. Jesus is the Saviour. Do not put your trust in ducking people under water, put your trust in Jesus.

Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. (Act 4:12 KJV)

Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. (Rom 10:13 KJV)

Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk. (Act 3:6 KJV)

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. (Joh 3:18 KJV)

And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS. (Rev 19:16 KJV)

Yes. I AGREE. I ONLY OMITTED THAT PART OF THE VERSE BECAUSE I WAS TRYING TO MAKE A POINT ABOUT BAPTISM BEING FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS AND NOT REPENTANCE. BUT YOU ARE ABSOLUYELY RIGHT ABOUT THE NAME OF JESUS BEING VERY IMPORTANT. Matthew says in the great commission that we are to be baptized in the name of the Father, son , and Holy Spirit.

The name points to the person of God. He is Father, son , and Holy Spirit so when people were being baptised in the name of Jesus they were calling on the "Lord of Lords and the King of Kings."

Yes. That is exactly what Paul said in Acts 22:16. He was baptized “...calling on the name of the Lord”. “In the name of” also means “by the authority of”. Like “Stop... in the name of the law!!” But I agree that His name is above ALL names.

Nice talking to you. What a lot of humble pie those people must have eaten when they repented and then put their trust in the one they crucified.

Amen to that!

I woke up in the middle of the night with this on my heart, so I'm going back to bed. God bless.

Thank you. God bless you, too.

Water baptism is ordained by God and is a work of righteousness. Matthew 3:13 - Then Jesus came from Galilee to John at the Jordan to be baptized by him. 14 And John tried to prevent Him, saying, “I need to be baptized by You, and are You coming to me?” 15 But Jesus answered and said to him, “Permit it to be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.” Then he allowed Him. *We are not saved by works of righteousness which we have done.. (Titus 3:5) Why do you think Paul made a "distinction" between faith "and" works in Ephesians 2:8,9 if faith is just another work like all other works? -- "Saved through faith, NOT WORKS." John 6:29 is simply a play on words by Jesus when he said, "This is the work (singular) of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent," when He answered the Jews (who were taking a legalistic approach) when they asked, "What shall we do, so that we may work the works (plural) of God?" So Jesus was not saying that believing is just another work in a series of works in a quest to receive salvation by works or it would contradict Ephesians 2:8,9. *Note the "distinction" between faith and works - "saved through faith, not works."

Now believing is clearly not a work that merits salvation. Through believing, we are completely trusting in "Another's work," (Christ's finished work of redemption). Through believing, Christ is the OBJECT of our complete trust in receiving salvation. Good works which "follow" believing unto salvation are the fruit of salvation, but not the root of it and if good works which follow believing were the basis or means by which we obtain salvation, that would add merit on our part in obtaining salvation because then we would be saved through believing based on the merits of Christ's finished work of redemption "plus our works." You can't have it both ways.

You make no distinction between faith AND works at all. Placing our faith in Christ for salvation may be something that we choose to DO yet through faith we are trusting in something that is already DONE. So like I said before, through believing, we are completely trusting in "Another's work," (Christ's finished work of redemption). Through believing, Christ is the OBJECT of our complete trust in receiving salvation.

Trusting in water baptism as the means of salvation and trusting in what Jesus has DONE to obtain salvation is very different. Faith trusts in what Christ has DONE. Spurious faith trusts in what man can DO.

If they were equal weight in importance, then Jesus would have stated whoever is not baptized will be condemned in Mark 16:16 but that was not the case. Jesus would have also mentioned baptism in John 3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26 but that was not the case either.

A better analogy would be, "he who takes his medication and washes it down with water will be made well but he who does not take his medication will remain sick." Of course it logically follows that we wash down medication with water, yet if no water is available and we take it dry (been there, done that) we will still be made well BECAUSE OF THE MEDICATION (and not because of the water). It's the same with baptism. It logically follows that we get baptized after we believe, but if you are on your death bed and cannot get water baptized before your death, you are still saved because you BELIEVE which is in harmony with Mark 16:16(b) ..but he who does not believe will be condemned and is also in harmony with ( John 3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26)

***NOWHERE does the Bible say "water baptized or condemned."***

If a person is an atheist and does not believe in Christ at all then he certainly is not going to be baptized, yet there are many people who attend various false religions and cults who have been water baptized BUT DO NOT TRULY BELIEVE. Now such people may believe "mental assent" that Jesus is the Son of God and that His death, burial and resurrection "happened" yet they are NOT trusting in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation. Genuine believers trust in CHRIST ALONE for salvation and NOT in works.

You merely assume that Galatians 3:27 says we are water baptized into the body of Christ because that fits your biased church doctrine. In 1 Corinthians 12:13, we read - For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. Spirit baptism (not water baptism) places us into the body of Christ.

Exactly. So much for "baptized into Moses" equating to being water baptized into the body of Moses just as "baptized into Christ" does not mean water baptized into the body of Christ.

Yet 1 Corinthians 10:2 still reads - "baptized into."

We get into Christ by being Spirit baptized into Christ. We are not water baptized into the body of Christ, just as the Israelites were not water baptized into the body of Moses, so "baptized into" in that regard is in reference to identification, not placement into the body.

The scriptures that you quote come straight out of the Bible, but your 4-5 step plan of salvation comes straight out of Campbellism. Your theology has originated with men, namely THOMAS CAMPBELL, ALEXANDER CAMPBELL, WALTER SCOTT, and BARTON W. STONE. Did these men actually "restore" the gospel, the church, and true New Testament worship, as they claim, or did they simply create another sect bent on a more dogmatic sectarianism than others they renounced? I at one time had temporarily spent some time in the so called church of Christ so I understand how they try to "shoe horn" works "into" salvation through faith.

The apostle Peter and the apostle Paul disagree with you. In Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. This is exactly what Acts 3:19 teaches except that Peter omits the parenthesis.

*Be sure to compare the fact that these Gentiles in Acts 10:45 received the gift of the Holy Spirit (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) and this was BEFORE water baptism (Acts 10:47).

In Acts 10:43 we read ..whoever believes in Him receives remission of sins. Again, these Gentiles received the gift of the Holy Spirit - Acts 10:45 - when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ - Acts 11:17 - (compare with Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved) BEFORE water baptism - Acts 10:47. This is referred to as repentance unto life - Acts 11:18.

*So the only logical conclusion when properly harmonizing scripture with scripture is that faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9; 16:31; 26:18). *Perfect Harmony*

If you believe that H20 molecules = Salvation you had better rethink your position.
There is no balm, element, compound, prophylactic, rite or ritual of this earth that provides any salvific remedy.

It comes from above, the realm of the Spirit. The rites and rituals are and always were mere shadows of the Spiritual reality.

The point that I'm making is that I've heard people in the church of Christ say that before the cross, baptism was not necessary for salvation, but after the cross, baptism is necessary for salvation, but then turn around and contradict themselves by saying that "baptism of repentance for the remission of sins" in Mark 1:4 and Luke 3:3 means that baptism obtains the remission of sins, yet this was before the cross. In Matthew 3:11, we read - "I baptize you with water for repentance.. (NASB) Was this baptism for "in order to obtain" repentance? (which makes no sense at all) or was this baptism for "in regards to/on the basis of" repentance? So water baptism does not obtain repentance or the remission of sins, but is done "in regards to/on the basis of" remission of sins received upon repentance.

I also hear this argument from those who attend the church of Christ -- "how do you know that the thief was not baptized?" Need to cover all the bases huh? So you believe that that thief may have been converted, was water baptized, and the fruit of that is being crucified as a thief? - (highly unlikely) In Matthew 27:39-43, we see that those who passed by, along with the chief priests scribes and elders blasphemed, mocked and shook their heads at Jesus and EVEN THE ROBBERS WHO WERE CRUCIFIED WITH HIM REVILED HIM WITH THE SAME THING. More fruit? I certainly don't see being crucified as a thief, blaspheming, mocking and shaking your head at Jesus as being the fruit of repentance/faith. Yet, moments later, we see that the thief had a "change of mind" (repentance) placed his faith in Christ for salvation and was saved (Luke 23:40-43). Of course, he died before having the opportunity to be water baptized.

Jesus only saves believers (John 3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26)

Re-baptizing these people in the name of Jesus in order to save them is not what was going on here. Paul asked them in verse 2 if they had received the Holy Spirit when they believed and their answer in verse 3 reveals that they were not yet believers. They had received the baptism of John but did not realize that Jesus Christ was the One to whom John's baptism pointed. Paul gave them instructions about Jesus and after they believed Paul's presentation of the gospel and came to saving faith, they were then baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Paul laid hands on them to receive the Holy Spirit (which was not the case in Acts 2 and Acts 10 - exception, not the rule). It did signify their inclusion into the church. Apostles were also present when the Samaritans (chapter 8) were included. God's purpose was to emphasize unity in the church and not to establish that the laying on of hands in order to receive the Holy Spirit is necessary in every case of conversion.

Jesus died before the thief on the cross died yet regardless, the thief was saved the same way all believers are saved before and after the cross -- THROUGH FAITH, NOT WORKS.

The evidence is overwhelming that these Gentles believed, received the gift of the Holy Spirit, spoke in tongues, magnified God, and were saved and a part of the body of Christ before they were water baptized. Certain Jews may have wanted to forbid them from being baptized because of their unacceptance of the Gentiles, but Peter clearly states that SURELY NO ONE CAN REFUSE. These Gentiles were clearly SAVED BEFORE WATER BAPTISM and the Holy Spirit was proof of this.

Romans 8:9 - But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. If one has received the Holy Spirit they "belong" to Christ. To belong to Christ does not describe the condition of a lost unbeliever but a saved believer - such was the case of these Gentiles before they were water baptized.

1 John 4:13 - By this we know that we abide in Him, and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit. Because they received the Holy Spirit, these Gentiles abided in God and God abided in them. To abide in God and to have God abide in you does not describe the condition of a lost unbeliever but a saved believer - such was the case of these Gentiles before they were water baptized.

Before they were water baptized, these Gentiles spoke in tongues and magnified God (Acts 10:46). *This spiritual gift of the Holy Spirit is ONLY for the body of Christ. (1 Corinthians 12)

We do not receive the gift of tongues, which is only for the body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12:4-12), without first receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit (indwelling, regenerating presence of the Holy Spirit). We don't receive "a" gift "of" the Holy Spirit until we first receive "the gift of the Holy Spirit" and these Gentiles clearly received the gift of the Holy Spirit before they were baptized.

Acts 15:8 - So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, 9 and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. *Not faith and water baptism. Water baptism is not what added the 3000 Jews to the church. In Acts 4:4, we read - However, many of those who heard the word believed; and the number of the men came to be about five thousand. hmm.. what happened to baptism? In Acts 5:14, we read - And believers were increasingly added to the Lord, multitudes of both men and women.

Do lost unbelievers receive the gift of the Holy Spirit? Absolutely not. Do you need it spelled out for you again? In Acts 10:43 we read ..whoever believes in Him receives remission of sins. These Gentiles received the gift of the Holy Spirit - Acts 10:45 - when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ - Acts 11:17 - (compare with Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved) BEFORE water baptism - Acts 10:47. This is referred to as repentance unto life - Acts 11:18.

Is this discussion about the role of baptism in the remission of sins?

It is interesting to see John the Baptists ministry was water baptism for the remission of sins.
So it seemed the actual baptism cleansed one from sins not just as a sign of repentance.

4 And so John came, baptizing in the desert region and preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.
Mark 1:4

Jesus asked the question was this baptism from God or man.
It suggests this baptism is an important step on the road to redemption, more than just a sign.

We can easily downplay these things instituted by God as of less importance, than that which God
has made important.

It is like Naaman who was told to wash in the Jordan. If God decrees something simple to do, we
are not wise to not just do it, to fulfil His word. Amen.

Salvation is through Jesus Christ :-

(Act 16:30-31) And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

(John 10:9) Jesus said, “I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and find pasture … I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly.”

(John 11:25) Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life, he who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die.”

(John 3:15-16) “… whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.”

(John 3:36) “He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

(John 5:24) “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgement, but has passed from death to life.”

(John 6:35) And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger and he who believes in Me shall never thirst.”

(John 6:51) “I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world.”

(John 8:12) Then Jesus spoke to them again, saying, “I am the light of the world. He who follows Me shall not walk in darkness, but have the light of life.”

(John 8:24) “Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”

Amen to that!