Not By Works

We are in communion with God, and as we walk Gods love grows and is perfected in us as we grow to
maturity, perfection. This is the road of sanctification.

I have told you more than once. Salvation has a definite proof positive in his Born Again Human Spirit, in that only a SAVED CHRISTIAN,
PAST TENSE, CAN and WILL PRODUCE FRUIT of the SPIRIT. THAT IS NOT WHEN HE WAS SAVED, but rather, THAT HE WAS SAVED, because of these Lifestyle Characteristics in HIS Human Spirit.


Galatians 5:22-23 (HCSB)
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith,
23 gentleness, self-control. Against such things there is no law.

That is only in the analogy, in the SPIRITUAL REALITY the angels WILL GATHER US, AND THOSE PEOPLE UNSAVED WHO ARE LEFT.

Jeremiah 4:22 For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.

MY people, foolish, He didn't make it all so complicated. Salvation wasn't a gift. Used to have to work at the law, had to follow it perfect. if you didn't, it was like breaking them all. Sin was death.

THEN GOD CAME and showed us it could be done by doing it. BUT REALIZED we couldn't. So first He made Salvation a gift. WE did not have to be "perfect" when we died, any more. WE now had the Blood of infinite value for forgiveness of our sins. We could break just the one law we broke (yes, the law was broke by breaking that one, but breaking that one no longer meant penalty for breaking them all which was death. Oh death where is thy sting? GONE JESUS ABOLISHED IT FOR THE SAVED) and repent and be washed clean that very moment. No more waiting for the day of atonement, the animal to be sacrificed, the priest to go into the holy of Holies. SIN got super easy to get rid of. GOD just wants us to REPENT.

What is repentance? Why is it important to God? Why are we to ask for forgiveness daily? (Jesus answer in how to pray OUR FATHER who are in Heaven....give us our daily bread and forgive as we forgive)

Every time we repent, our walk gets closer to that of the walk of Jesus. We are refining our inner man. The spirit leads us to see the laws of God working within us. Jesus walked for God, we walk for Jesus ect.

Repentance 3341 metanoia change of mind, change in the inner man, change of thought

Repent 3340 metanoeo to change one's mind or purpose, change the inner man (particularly with reference to acceptance of the will of God

IF YOU WANT TO BELIEVE THAT. However it does not say they are NOT ANGELS IN BOTH the analogy and the Spiritual Reality, only in the KJV which is a PARAPHRASE, NOT AT TRANSLATION. I checked ASV, NKJV, NASB, HCSB, CSB, NRSV, ESV, NIV, NJB, YLB, GWT, BBE, MNT, DARBY, MaceNT, NET, NLT, TLB, Wesley'sNT, WEY: All of them does not mention WHO the GATHERS are. SO IT CAN APPLY TO ANGELS. Seems to me that you put WAY TOO MUCH trust in the KJV that is only a paraphrase from at least 5 earlier English Bible with "KNOW ERRORS". Their translation team in the Original 1611 PREFACE admitted:


John 15:5-6 (HCSB)
5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. The one who remains in Me and I in him produces much fruit, because you can do nothing without Me.
6 If anyone does not remain in Me, he is thrown aside like a branch and he withers. They gather them, throw them into the fire, and they are burned.

New International Version
If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.

English Standard Version
If anyone does not abide in me he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned.

Berean Study Bible
If anyone does not remain in Me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers. Such branches are gathered up, thrown into the fire, and burned.

Berean Literal Bible
If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown out like the branch and is dried up, and they gather them and cast them into the fire, and it is burned.

King James Bible
If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

Christian Standard Bible
If anyone does not remain in me, he is thrown aside like a branch and he withers. They gather them, throw them into the fire, and they are burned.

Contemporary English Version
If you don't stay joined to me, you will be thrown away. You will be like dry branches that are gathered up and burned in a fire.

Good News Translation
Those who do not remain in me are thrown out like a branch and dry up; such branches are gathered up and thrown into the fire, where they are burned.

I also checked interlinear, Greek and Lexicon, not men.
Proofing once again
Salvation will be lost if you do not abide - God will not be mocked. His promise is for "whomsoever will" not for "whomsoever didn't"

Thank you, you found the same thing I did. Analogy can be a reference to the Spiritual Reality:

Matthew 24:31 (ASV)
31 And he shall send forth his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Revelation 14:9-11 (ASV)
9 And another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a great voice, If any man worshippeth the beast and his image, and receiveth a mark on his forehead, or upon his hand,
10 he also shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is prepared unmixed in the cup of his anger; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 and the smoke of their torment goeth up for ever and ever; and they have no rest day and night, they that worship the beast and his image, and whoso receiveth the mark of his name.

Revelation 14:14-20 (ASV)
14 And I saw, and behold, a white cloud; and on the cloud I saw one sitting like unto a son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand sharp sickle.
15 And another angel came out from the temple, crying with a great voice to him that sat on the cloud, Send forth thy sickle, and reap: for the hour to reap is come; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
16 And he that sat on the cloud cast his sickle upon the earth; and the earth was reaped.
17 Another angel came out from the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.
18 And another angel came out from the altar, he that hath power over fire; and he called with a great voice to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Send forth thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.
19 And the angel cast his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vintage of the earth, and cast it into the winepress, the great winepress, of the wrath of God.
20 And the winepress are trodden without the city, and there came out blood from the winepress, even unto the bridles of the horses, as far as a thousand and six hundred furlongs.


I still disagree with your conclusion in the last Sentence. Those who do not abide, only PROVE they were Never Born Again. YES they are LOST, but They were NEVER SAVED.

Here is how I know:

1 John 2:19 (NKJV)
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

1 John 2:22-23 (NKJV)
22 Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son.
23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

1 Peter 1:3-5 (HCSB)
3 Praise the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. According to His great mercy, He has given us a new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead
4 and into an inheritance that is imperishable, uncorrupted, and unfading, kept in heaven for you.
5 You are being protected by God’s power through faith for a salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.

DeighAnn :

TWO MORE VERSES:

2 Timothy 2:19 (HCSB)
19 Nevertheless, God’s solid foundation stands firm, having this inscription: The Lord knows those who are His, and Everyone who names the name of the Lord must turn away from unrighteousness.

2 Timothy 1:9 (HCSB)
9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.

So Jesus allows those who are not saved to abide in Him? Partake of the root? Is that without belief? What does it take to abide? Faith but no love? Does it sound like "a little pregnant"? Then there must be a step above abide where you are now sure you are saved?

In the end God is going to Judge. Sheep over here, goat over there. What bothers me are horrible lousy people being able to say "I am saved" when you can CLEARLY see they are not. It gives Christianity a bad name. And the ONLY way that has come about is with this OSAS doctrine. You take that out and what you see when you see a Christian is a "Christ man". Christs' man. So why say "never really saved" as opposed to "you can lose it"? It is the same people. Maybe if they knew they could lose it they would treasure it for the precious gift it is. It kept me on the straight and narrow a time or two. I just don't get it. And it isn't because I haven't read all the verses. They just haven't come close to effecting a change of thought or heart. It just gets so complicated and the Word is easy, God wrote it for His foolish and sottish people.

Connections - us and God

If we are like God, immortal, then how can we continue to sin and fail?

12 Fight the good fight of the faith. Take hold of the eternal life to which you
were called when you made your good confession in the presence of many witnesses.
13 In the sight of God, who gives life to everything, and of Christ Jesus, who while
testifying before Pontius Pilate made the good confession, I charge you
14 to keep this command without spot or blame until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ,
15 which God will bring about in his own time--God, the blessed and only Ruler,
the King of kings and Lord of lords,
16 who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one
has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever. Amen.
1 Tim 6

How can one take hold of eternal life, if one is a believer and immortal, so you already
have it, and it is something you cannot lose? So Paul saw eternal life for Timothy as
something we attain to, hope for, walk in metaphorically but have yet to attain in
reality.
Now God alone is immortal, not believers, not some supernatural born again upgraded
spirit that cannot be touched, God alone is immortal and we are not God.

Here is the problem, if we were immortal, but still with the ability to sin, we would be
denying our immortality by sinning. Because we live in this fallen world, our stumbling
does not destroy us, we can still learn, repent, get back to fellowship and rebuild what is
broken. After this, when we are like Him, there is no way back, only judgement.

We cannot be immortal and not perfect. So those who claim they are upgraded immortals,
by their own sinning declare they are lying. It is this clear cut.

Judgement - justice and vindication

Is the day of judgement a day of sorrow or joy?
In Christ Jesus it is a day of joy, because finally His kingdom shall reign on earth as it is in heaven.

And things will be made clear. That which is hidden shall be brought out into the open, that
which is true shall be shown over that which is false.

Sadly, that which is deluded and empty will fall like dust to show sinners lost without hope.
Jesus's blood washes us clean and purifies us, making us white like snow.

15 And he said, "These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Therefore, "they are before the throne of God and serve him day and night in his temple; and he who sits on the throne will spread his tent over them.
Rev 7

We washed, we are not covered. We stand as we are, cleansed, purified, forgiven, made whole.
How does a plate that has been washed feel? Clean. It is still a plate.
So a sinner washed is a saint, a human who is clean. We do not feel different, we are just clean.

So many are scared to believe they have been forgiven and cleansed. So difficult was it when Jesus
said your sins are forgiven, the people did not realise what had happened. They were forgiven.

5 Blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the earth
Matt 5

People despise the meek, the person who is in the background, who learns, listens and understands.
When the meek move, they know what they are doing and saying, because all the arguments have
been had and lost. So do not despise letting others win, trample and claim victory, parade in their
glory, have a moment in the sun. Because that is all they have. When things move they are gone.

And the meek move things, not the rash conflict makes, those who stir up and force their way through.
They simply fall and cannot get up again and do not know why, because judgement has arrived.
God bless you all, walk in Jesus and His ways, Amen

Amen.

Shame that some here are blind to their own sins and trust in the false image of themselves for salvation instead of Jesus.

I don't know why they do it, but I worry for them.

Washed and purified - saint believer
Covered and hidden - sinner believer

The second sinner believer believes there is no washing or purifying so no standing before the Lord
in righteousness. In their mind the saint believer is still in their own sins and the false image of themselves
just leads to judgement.

The first saint believer believes Jesus is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and by faith gains forgiveness,
purification and cleansing so we stand before God righteously cleansed by Him and in Him.
The sinner believer has not accepted they are cleansed and purified and believe continuing in sin is ok
because God only sees Jesus, and sins have been forgiven past, present and future, whether being commited
now or in the future.

Some sinner believers say this is a slander, that they are working on sanctification and becoming like Jesus
because He has forgiven them. But as there are no consequences for not following this, sowing to the flesh
is just what people do, so what. Though some deny this, person after person expressed exactly this reality,
and others who came to Christ out of this deception, testified this is exactly what they believed, they were
saved and sinning was fine.

Scripture says this

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
1 John 1

16 Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed.
The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective.
James 5

22 Now that you have purified yourselves by obeying the truth so that you have sincere love for
your brothers, love one another deeply, from the heart.
1 Peter 1

20 Purify every garment as well as everything made of leather, goat hair or wood."
21 Then Eleazar the priest said to the soldiers who had gone into battle, "This is
the requirement of the law that the LORD gave Moses:
22 Gold, silver, bronze, iron, tin, lead
23 and anything else that can withstand fire must be put through the fire, and
then it will be clean. But it must also be purified with the water of cleansing. And
whatever cannot withstand fire must be put through that water.
Num 31

It is clear from the temple, God accepts purified things and things can be purified and
acceptable to Him. To deny purification is to be in unbelief.

This illustrates a problem for immortals. If an immortal is rejected, then they must not be immortal,
or else and immortal can become again mortal, which denies the very gift of immortality.

It is easier to accept the gift is real, a communion with Jesus, a walk to perfection, to maturity which
is accepted as flawed but with a path of sanctification and transformation. And the rebirth is real,
except it is living and can die. Its life does not deny its eternal future, but until it is crowned it is
mortal, not immortal. And the promise and the actions of Christ under pin the promise.

But we cannot be immortal, or else our learning and our failure would lead immediately to torment
and destruction. It is like being in a sand pit, learning the ropes, the needs, the strengths and the
failures, means we have space for mistakes and picking ourselves up and walking on. Why would
God want us to learn, refine us and reward us unless all these lessons did not have eternal significance.

I am happy with what Christ has given me, this walk, this ease, this learning, this growth. In His grace
He will lead us all into immortality, and then we will see what it all really is, God bless you

For the 50th time.....the CONTEXT is BEARING FRUIT....NOT salvation......the word ABIDE means to REMAIN, BE CONSISTENT, STEADFAST in ORDER to BEAR FRUIT........

FAITH ALONE saves a MAN/WOMAN and PLACES HIM/HER INTO THE VINE.....IF they REMAIN consistent in CHRIST they WILL BEAR FRUIT.....JESUS compares this to men cutting/pruning branches that do not bear fruit and burning them......AND EVERY ONE OF US NEEDS THE CRAP and DROSS PRUNED from US in order to BEAR more FRUIT.........

THIS set of VERSES IS NOT SAYING we WILL be removed FROM the VINE (LOSE SALVATION) and then BE CAST INTO HELL.....WAKE UP ALL Of you....

EVERYONE of US will have our WORKS/FRUIT TRIED BY FIRE and ALL the CRAP (WOOD, HAY, STUBBLE) that does NOT MEASURE UP will be BURNED to a CRISP and GONE........

It is rather disturbing that a PLETHORA of VERSES, CONTEXT, VERBIAGE, GREEK VERB TENSE, THE Definition of WORDS and the common sense GOD gave a GOOSE is denied, rejected and twisted to peddle a losable salvation by this set of verses.....

Brother....the NUMBER is plenteous that come before the throne having trusted in themselves and their many wonderful works in the name of JESUS as their ticket to enter....heck...they even claim JESUS as LORD x 2..........

YET, JESUS denies knowing them and they are cast.......WHY? BECAUSE their root (salvation) was corrupt and they were never saved by the dogma they embraced as truth.....which boils down to....

FAITH plus WORKS for salvation (to gain, keep, maintain, top off or finish salvation)

Ok immortal DC,

You cannot lose your salvation because you are perfect, and it is your flesh that sins
and not you.

But Paul was not immortal, and Jesus said simply, if you hand sins you will be thrown into
hell. So after you became immortal, are you not under judgement when you, the perfect DC
sins, because that is eternal rebellion worthy of eternal torment.

God bless you my friend.

By the way I think only your friends are listening to you as the saints who are not immortal
recognise their needs and Christ word transforming and redeeming them as they follow.

1 Corinthians 15:51

Behold, I shew you a mystery, We shall not all sleep but we shall all be changed. In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the Last Trump for the trumpet shall sound and the dead will be raised incorruptible.

And we shall be changed.

For this corruptible must put on incorruption and this mortal must put on immortality.

So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption and this mortal shall have put on immortality then shall the saying that is written, DEATH is swallowed up in VICTORY. 55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave where is thy victory

But THANKS BE TO GOD, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the WORK of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is NOT IN VAIN IN THE LORD.

emotional gymnastics

You are talking nicely to a brother in Christ. The conversation continues and they turn round
and say you are a liar, a slanderer, worse than a murderer, in need of admitting ones sin and
changing ones mind.

Step away and put the gun down. Dysfunctional, aggressive, corrosive language typical of
a psychosis, where the patients position is the fault of someone else.

And the more one is sucked into the logic, the more it eats up the innocent.
The only answer is to call it what it is. A clue is in the belief they are now immortal with
an evil flesh and a perfect spirit. Take ownership for ones own sin, repent and commit ones
way to Jesus and following Him. If one cannot do this, one is not a brother or sister in Christ.

Question
John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit for without me ye can do nothing. (BUT WE BEST PRODUCE, THAT TAKES WORK)

We who (the saved) are the branches,

those who abideth ( REMAIN, BE CONSISTENT, STEADFAST) in the root (Jesus) bring forth

those who do NOT abideth (remain) do nothing

John 15:6 If a man abide not (doesn't remain, isn't consistent, isn't steadfast) in me, he is cast forth as a branch

(so the root supplies all the needs to the branch for the branch to stay alive and produce fruit).

(It is not the root producing the fruit, it is the branch producing fruit through the nutrients the root supplies).

(IF the root was producing the fruit, the branch would never quit producing fruit).

(BUT on THE day THE BRANCH decides he wants to do things his way and not the root way, the good root casts him away).

The branch could return saying I am sorry, I messed up, I thought I could do it my way, or continue on the path of death.

HE WAS ONCE a Fruitful BRANCH, He left the root, he withers and dies (Salvation thrown away)

and is withered; and gathered and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. (Judgment Day not saved)

John 15:7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.(Judgment day saved)