Not By Works

In hebrews

I see it that they tasted this new movement, but did not like it and went back to what they really liked.

Since they left and went back, there is no way they will try the new way again, Thats why they will never be renewed.

They were saved. just sayin....

Like Judas?

I've heard three different interpretations for Hebrews 6:4-6 (hypothetical view, lost salvation view, never truly saved view) but am not convinced that it teaches a really "saved" person really "lost their salvation." NOWHERE does the Bible use the specific words "lose or lost salvation." According to the hypothetical interpretation, the key word in the passage is "IF." The writer of Hebrews is setting up a hypothetical statement: "IF a Christian were to fall away, with the point being that it would be impossible (IF a Christian falls away) to renew them again to repentance. That’s because Christ died once for sin and if His sacrifice is insufficient, then there’s no hope at all. The passage, therefore, presents an argument based on a false premise (that a true Christian can fall away) and follows it to its senseless conclusion (that Jesus would have to be sacrificed again and again).

In regards to the never saved view, once enlightened means to bring to light, to shed light upon or to cause light to shine upon some object, in the sense of illuminating it. John 1:9 describes Jesus as the "true Light," giving light "to every man"; but this cannot mean the light of salvation, because not every man is saved. This light either leads to the complete acceptance of Jesus Christ or produces condemnation in those who reject this light.

In reference to partakers of the Holy Spirit, this describes one who shares with someone else as an associate in an enterprise or undertaking. It speaks of those who are participators in something. Metochos is used elsewhere in Hebrews in the context of believers (Hebrews 3:14 - "For we have become partakers of Christ") and thus the statement that the readers have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit seems at first glance to be support that true believers are being addressed, yet there are other ministries of the Holy Spirit that precede the receiving of the gift of the Holy Spirit. An individual may become a sharer in or partaker of the Holy Spirit, in regards to His pre-salvation ministry, convicting of sin, righteousness and judgment to come by responding for a time to His drawing power intended to lead unbelievers to Christ. Yet notice that the writer does not state that these individuals were "indweled by the Holy Spirit" or "sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise" (guarantee) of future inheritance."

I already explained tasted the good word of God in my previous post.

In regards to "fall away," I find it interesting that this term was used by Jesus of His 11 disciples at the time of His arrest. The disciples deserted Jesus as was predicted and Peter obviously denied Jesus three times. They were said to "fall away." Matthew 26:31 - Then Jesus said to them, "You will all fall away because of Me this night, for it is written, 'I WILL STRIKE DOWN THE SHEPHERD, AND THE SHEEP OF THE FLOCK SHALL BE SCATTERED.' 32 "But after I have been raised, I will go ahead of you to Galilee." 33 But Peter said to Him, "Even though all may fall away because of You, I will never fall away." Obviously, this was not a loss of salvation. For a righteous man may fall seven times AND rise again, But the wicked shall FALL by calamity. (Proverbs 24:16) The wicked fall away permanently but were never saved. (1 John 2:19)

In Hebrews 6:7-8, we read - For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; but if it bears thorns and briars, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned. In this metaphor, we see that those who receive final judgment are compared to land that bears no vegetation or useful fruit, but rather bears thorns and thistles. In other metaphors in scripture, we see that good fruit is a sign of true spiritual life and a lack of fruit is a sign of false believers (for example - Matthew 3:8-10; 7:15-20; 12:33-35). Verse 9 sums it up for me. The writer is speaking to those truly saved (calls them BELOVED). He says that even though he speaks like this concerning THOSE types of people, He is convinced of better things concerning YOU. Things that ACCOMPANY SALVATION. Thorns and briars and falling away do not accompany salvation.

It's generally stated by those who believe salvation can be lost that you can get it back again. If the writer of Hebrews was truly teaching that a really "saved," person really "lost their salvation" then why didn't he simply say, "For it is impossible for those who were once born again or saved, if they fall away, to renew them again to salvation? Why is it that we never find the words "lost or lose your salvation" in the Bible? *That would certainly settle the issue for me.

No, they are not believers..

Jesus said we are not to just taste, but gnaw and chew on the truth,, it is far more than just tasting.. It is tasting, savoring, swallowing and then having this power of this food which jesus said whoever eats will NEVER DIE, nurture your life forever.

I've heard three different interpretations for Hebrews 6:4-6 (hypothetical view, lost salvation view, never truly saved view) but am not convinced that it teaches a really "saved" person really "lost their salvation." NOWHERE does the Bible use the specific words "lose or lost salvation." According to the hypothetical interpretation, the key word in the passage is "IF." The writer of Hebrews is setting up a hypothetical statement: "IF a Christian were to fall away, with the point being that it would be impossible (IF a Christian falls away) to renew them again to repentance. That’s because Christ died once for sin and if His sacrifice is insufficient, then there’s no hope at all. The passage, therefore, presents an argument based on a false premise (that a true Christian can fall away) and follows it to its senseless conclusion (that Jesus would have to be sacrificed again and again).

In regards to the never saved view, once enlightened means to bring to light, to shed light upon or to cause light to shine upon some object, in the sense of illuminating it. John 1:9 describes Jesus as the "true Light," giving light "to every man"; but this cannot mean the light of salvation, because not every man is saved. This light either leads to the complete acceptance of Jesus Christ or produces condemnation in those who reject this light.

In reference to partakers of the Holy Spirit, this describes one who shares with someone else as an associate in an enterprise or undertaking. It speaks of those who are participators in something. Metochos is used elsewhere in Hebrews in the context of believers (Hebrews 3:14 - "For we have become partakers of Christ") and thus the statement that the readers have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit seems at first glance to be support that true believers are being addressed, yet there are other ministries of the Holy Spirit that precede the receiving of the gift of the Holy Spirit. An individual may become a sharer in or partaker of the Holy Spirit, in regards to His pre-salvation ministry, convicting of sin, righteousness and judgment to come by responding for a time to His drawing power intended to lead unbelievers to Christ. Yet notice that the writer does not state that these individuals were "indweled by the Holy Spirit" or "sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise" (guarantee) of future inheritance."

I already explained tasted the good word of God in my previous post.

In regards to "fall away," I find it interesting that this term was used by Jesus of His 11 disciples at the time of His arrest. The disciples deserted Jesus as was predicted and Peter obviously denied Jesus three times. They were said to "fall away." Matthew 26:31 - Then Jesus said to them, "You will all fall away because of Me this night, for it is written, 'I WILL STRIKE DOWN THE SHEPHERD, AND THE SHEEP OF THE FLOCK SHALL BE SCATTERED.' 32 "But after I have been raised, I will go ahead of you to Galilee." 33 But Peter said to Him, "Even though all may fall away because of You, I will never fall away." Obviously, this was not a loss of salvation. For a righteous man may fall seven times AND rise again, But the wicked shall FALL by calamity. (Proverbs 24:16) The wicked fall away permanently but were never saved. (1 John 2:19)

In Hebrews 6:7-8, we read - For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; but if it bears thorns and briars, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned. In this metaphor, we see that those who receive final judgment are compared to land that bears no vegetation or useful fruit, but rather bears thorns and thistles. In other metaphors in scripture, we see that good fruit is a sign of true spiritual life and a lack of fruit is a sign of false believers (for example - Matthew 3:8-10; 7:15-20; 12:33-35). Verse 9 sums it up for me. The writer is speaking to those truly saved (calls them BELOVED). He says that even though he speaks like this concerning THOSE types of people, He is convinced of better things concerning YOU. Things that ACCOMPANY SALVATION. Thorns and briars and falling away do not accompany salvation.

It's generally stated by those who believe salvation can be lost that you can get it back again. If the writer of Hebrews was truly teaching that a really "saved," person really "lost their salvation" then why didn't he simply say, "For it is impossible for those who were once born again or saved, if they fall away, to renew them again to salvation? Why is it that we never find the words "lost or lose your salvation" in the Bible? *That would certainly settle the issue for me.

These are the verses correct?

Hebrews 6:4-8
“For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, having fallen away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
For the earth which brings in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned.”

@eternally-gratefull

What is impossible in the verse?

What is impossible is renewing them to repentance.

It is impossible “if they fall away” to renew them

Why can they never be renewed is the question

Agree, so if they were never saved why then can they not ever saved?

How does this make sense?

Judas loved money and power. When he realized his money would be cut off and he would never gain the power he wanted, He turned Christ in for more money.

Well you mind is made up, I have no problem stating MacArthur is wrong and this refers to saved people and actually reinforces our eternal security.

Once one abandons the whole lordship salvation doctrine and ideas of spurious faith the scripture makes a lot more sense.....imho having been there and done that.

Because they went to what they truly had faith in, the law.

If you taste something and do not like it, and you go back to what your true faith is in, Your never gonne try to taste the other thing again.

You were not saved when you tried it out. (You tasted it, you did not eat it.

And you will never try it again, thus you will never be saved.

I guess you have to look at it from context.

I can see what your saying also. But that would be from a different context. He is not warning people to not think you can lose your salvation, he is warning people about going back to law (it is prety much what the whole book of hebrews is about)

What's lordship salvation?

Exactly the warning is to those that are saved.

Who is being admonished to hold on to their profession? Is it false believers?
That would not make sense

Why would true believers be admonished to hold on to their profession if they couldn't cast it away? The writer of Hebrews is addressing believers whose loss of confidence.

The writer says that these people were "once enlightened." The Greek word used here is photizo, it means: "to enlighten, illuminate, to give light, to make see." The writer's other use of this verb in 10:32 seems clearly to point to the early days of their conversion experience:

There is no need to warn people who are saved, they would never return to what their true faith lies in. A person who has true faith in Christ woudl never even consider going back to the schoolmaster.




Many people have the truth enlightened to them, yet STILL fail to chose to receive that.

A child of God can not be lost. So it can not be talking to true believers. A child of God is his child. The child may rin away, may even go to the other side of the world. He is still his fathers son.

Many people have professed faith, yet never had true faith. Just because you profess faith does not mean you actually have it. We see this in here.. people who profess to have faith, Yet all you hear out of the is works.

Many people have the truth enlightened to them, yet STILL fail to chose to receive that.

This expression seems to be the reason that people think they were not believers ... again that makes no sense in context.

To be continued... need to go change the oil in my car. LOL

I dare not Mr. Bill, I dare not .... there are many versions

Okay I will say one thing, in nutshell that if someone falls away it means they were never true believers because they only made Jesus Saviour but also need to make Him Lord.

There are two requirements for salvation Saviour and Lord.