Not By Works

I am not sure why you disagree, but I am fully convinced of the Pre-Trib Rapture, as evidently you do also. I am pointing out that Paul is referring to a Pre-Trib Rapture in 2 Thess 2, despite the controversy. The question is who and when. In this passage it is the Church (the Bride) and pre-wrath. OT saints are a different time and space.

They are easy to spot.....they glorify themselves.

Jesus is already Lord. The more we acknowledge this fact in our pilgrimage, the more fruit we will bear IMO.

No, Paul is not.........He uses a Grandsville Sharp in GREEK...........the parousia (coming = body presence of Christ) THAT IS TO SAY our gathering together UNTO HIM SHALL NOT COME......UNTIL

a. APO-HYSTAMIE <--apostasy

AND

b. THAT MAN OF SIN REVEALED <----SITTING on the THRONE claiming to be GOD and worshipped as GOD

Can you honestly say HE is your Personal LORD, which means Master? That is where Born Again begins.

Sorry....I am missing your point. No pre trib rapture or yes to apostasy coming first?

"And besides this, ad to your Faith, Vurtue... These are the Fruit of the Spirit, that we bear as we dwell in God and walk in Love. Jesus said, "If a man abides not in me, He is cast out as a branch and withers." If we are ofended and dont forgive, we are not forgiven. If we have unresolved anger we dont go on to perfection, neither if we have pride of achievment. These are the dead works that we all have to face and be free of by the "Work of God." This is the will of God, even your santification." That is

"Faith Works by Love.:
"This is the work of God: to believe on Him whim He has sent." To those who "Believe," "Christ in you the Hope of Glory."
Simple equation: "Faith Hope and Love remain." Same as saying "Faith works by Love." Thats all that remains. Jesus is the hope in us and He is the one who does the work in us. "He that is joined to the Lord becomes one Spirit with Him." If you believe, you work along with God. Jesus was not saved by works, He wad saved by the Holy Spirit who raised Him from the dead. Yet jesus came to do the work of God. But many of you have no interest in going on to perfection, Jesus said so, "Strive to enter in at the straigjt gate, for many shall seek tobenter in and shall not be able." To some work only means trying to pprove yourselves to God on your own eforts, and not "Christ in you the Work or Hope of Glory. Good luck getting past blocks in your understanding and if you did you only begin to enter Wisdom, "To know the Love of God," Those of you who think you already know, have stoped learning. "If any man thinks he knows, he does not know as he should."

Both migo.......

Apostasy/MAN of SIN revealed 1st

POST Great Trib/PRE-Wrath ingathering

I was raised in a church that taught pre-trib....I believed it, stood on it, dogmatically defended it.......then I had to teach through 1st and 2nd Thessalonians and while studying through the bible twice a year in Seminary I began to see things that did not jive with the pre-trib "rapture"

There are too many contradictions IMV to embrace that view any longer......

The way I see it, there is a clean break, and that is the revealing of the man of sin. In any case I consider you a Brother so never any hard feelings my friend. I am basically 99% in agreement with Ahwatukee as regards end times.

Same view....and I have read his view....many errors........all I am gonna say.....and just a point to ponder....do you believe in eternal security? and If so....can one that teaches a losable salvation (different gospel) be saved and then have any understanding of a subject greater than salvation?

Good point and I have thought this as well.

I actually do not pay any attention to these teachers/preachers.

Same view....and I have read his view....many errors........all I am gonna say.....and just a point to ponder....do you believe in eternal security? and If so....can one that teaches a losable salvation (different gospel) be saved and then have any understanding of a subject greater than salvation?

Yes definitely eternal security, nope never encountered and problems with Ahwatukee in his view of ES.

Try again....he teaches it can be forfeit.........!!

Well, off to teach a handful of neighbors for 1.5 hours straight.....Imagine most "church members" willingly sitting through 1.5 hours of bible instruction without constantly checking watches, the clock or mouthing, griping and complaining under their breath HAHHAH

Keep swinging the swords (those that teach the truth that is)

Amen....and it is a factual statement....he cannot even get salvation right....and if he cannot get that right, he has NO spiritual insight into the end of the age......much less the 2nd coming of Christ......

Can you honestly say HE is your Personal LORD, which means Master? That is where Born Again begins.

Not sure you will agree, but unfortunately there are also people who hold to eternal security that are also false teachers?

Satan likes to keep all his bases covered.