Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

Greetings Heyjude,

It's a sad conversation when we have to stoop to allow those who push Grace to the point that obedience to Gods Laws for the Love of God is sinful!

Truthfully, Jesus does forgive, but He forgives the "repentant heart", the heart that grieves over infractions to His commands. But where does this repentance come from? It comes from a love of His laws and as a gift from Him for our transgression.

Our Heavenly Father's heart in the matter is recorded in the following verses, as well as by the entire scripture itself;

Eze 33:13 NIV If I tell the righteous man that he will surely live, but then he trusts in his righteousness and does evil, none of the righteous things he has done will be remembered; he will die for the evil he has done.

Deu 29:19-20 NIV When such a person hears the words of this oath, he invokes a blessing on himself and therefore thinks, "I will be safe, even though I persist in going my own way." This will bring disaster on the watered land as well as the dry. (20) The LORD will never be willing to forgive him; his wrath and zeal will burn against that man. All the curses written in this book will fall upon him, and the LORD will blot out his name from under heaven.

SG

Thank you Simple Gardener. What a lovely name by the way. I agree that its a heart relationship. It is impossible to keep the laws sometimes no matter how good a moral guide they are, so thank God for Grace.

For instance, I couldn't possibly have kept the Sabbath anyway looking after both my parents who were dying of cancer at home. Even the Lord said "Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath"? I think he hopes we have a heart for what is "right" naturally and hopefully they are a good guide for moral living. Not lying, stealing, cheating on someone, making up stuff about people or murder for instance should be that hard not to follow (surely). I guess Heaven on Earth will be like that natually. (Along with being vegetarian as there is no death). That one really gets ppl.

Thank you Simple Gardener. What a lovely name by the way. I agree that its a heart relationship. It is impossible to keep the laws sometimes no matter how good a moral guide they are, so thank God for Grace.

For instance, I couldn't possibly have kept the Sabbath anyway looking after both my parents who were dying of cancer at home. Even the Lord said "Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath"? I think he hopes we have a heart for what is "right" naturally and hopefully they are a good guide for moral living. Not lying, stealing, cheating on someone, making up stuff about people or murder for instance should be that hard not to follow (surely). I guess Heaven on Earth will be like that natually. (Along with being vegetarian as there is no death). That one really gets ppl.

Sorry typo above I meant "shouldn't be that hard to follow!"

I know scriptures can contradict one another. But I don't know about you, but I remember the game "Simon says".
If Paul or Jesus were standing in front of you telling you two different things, which one are you going to believe? I wouldn't take a chance on that and no matter how confusing the scripture is sometimes, how do you know its not a test to see if you really "Follow the Leader". I would rather follow Jesus than anyone else but that's my view. Everyone else can listen to whom they will. But why take a chance?

I know scriptures can contradict one another. But I don't know about you, but I remember the game "Simon says".
If Paul or Jesus were standing in front of you telling you two different things, which one are you going to believe?

when you think the scriptures are contradicting each other, you don't understand what you're reading.

thinking that Jesus and His apostles are saying different things is not something you should be comfortable with believing.

And evidently it was a common occurrence to the point that Peter declared;

2Pe 3:14-17 NIV So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him. (15) Bear in mind that our Lord's patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. (16) He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction. (17) Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position.

when you think the scriptures are contradicting each other, you don't understand what you're reading.

thinking that Jesus and His apostles are saying different things is not something you should be comfortable with believing.

My point before on this thread was “where this is an obvious contradiction I would rather believe Jesus”. I do understand what I am reading.


Some posts on this thread have quoted Paul on the Law yet Jesus said not one “jot or tittle shall pass from the Law”, putting Paul against what Jesus said but Paul doesn't say that.


I probably phrased it wrongly and meant to say “people's interpretation of scripture differ” not that Scripture contradicts itself (I do not think it does). But there are many views which are not clear which is why there are so many viewpoints! This is because Scripture is either read differently, interpreted differently (like speaking different languages/speaking in tongues for instance) and this leads to disagreements.


There would not be so many disagreements on the Law if everyone saw the same scripture. My point was that Jesus words must take precedence if in doubt or you can get into all sorts of squabbles on the Law. It's just a simple rule I use thats all, I am not saying the Word itself contradicts itself but if Jesus is the Word then his is the real Word over others (if in doubt)


For instance. The Thief on the Cross. Some say that Jesus was saying (in so many words) “Today (I say to you Today) you will be with me in paradise” which is daft. Everyone knows it's “Today”. He meant TODAY you will be with me in Paradise. If he said TODAY then he must mean TODAY. That is how I mean contradictions in interpretation. I believe if Jesus said TODAY because he actually meant TODAY! Not “ I say this TODAY”. It doesn't even make any sense to interpret it that way but some obviously do. Some even say the comma is in the wrong place putting the whole grammar of the Scripture in doubt.


There are so many Bibles now and the reason some passages may seem so contradictory is simply that different books, and even different passages in one book, were written by different authors with different theological and political viewpoints. The interpretation of the Law is one point of contention or the 4 Gospels and so is the Penitent Thief on the Cross another good example.


As many quote Paul (wrongly by the way as he never says the Law is done away with at all) and do not answer when I ask them what Jesus meant when he clearly says the Law still stands until Heaven and the Earth pass away. If Jesus said that the Law hasn't passed away then it hasn't.


This is what I mean, that it is interpreted wrongly and not that “scripture” contradicts itself but it isn't clear to some so they take some other view over Jesus and what he actually said..


Chose Jesus and his Word over others if in doubt was what I was trying to say.


I do not believe that Scripture contradicts itself, but we have to answer correctly if some say it does. Otherwise why do you think so many people believe so many different interpretations of the Scripture?


There are too many different teachings on it and only one can be right. Jesus.

have you read Romans yet?

Peter's comment is not license for you to ignore or discard it.

My point before on this thread was “where this is an obvious contradiction I would rather believe Jesus”. I do understand what I am reading.


Some posts on this thread have quoted Paul on the Law yet Jesus said not one “jot or tittle shall pass from the Law”, putting Paul against what Jesus said but Paul doesn't say that.


I probably phrased it wrongly and meant to say “people's interpretation of scripture differ” not that Scripture contradicts itself (I do not think it does). But there are many views which are not clear which is why there are so many viewpoints! This is because Scripture is either read differently, interpreted differently (like speaking different languages/speaking in tongues for instance) and this leads to disagreements.


There would not be so many disagreements on the Law if everyone saw the same scripture. My point was that Jesus words must take precedence if in doubt or you can get into all sorts of squabbles on the Law. It's just a simple rule I use thats all, I am not saying the Word itself contradicts itself but if Jesus is the Word then his is the real Word over others (if in doubt)


For instance. The Thief on the Cross. Some say that Jesus was saying (in so many words) “Today (I say to you Today) you will be with me in paradise” which is daft. Everyone knows it's “Today”. He meant TODAY you will be with me in Paradise. If he said TODAY then he must mean TODAY. That is how I mean contradictions in interpretation. I believe if Jesus said TODAY because he actually meant TODAY! Not “ I say this TODAY”. It doesn't even make any sense to interpret it that way but some obviously do. Some even say the comma is in the wrong place putting the whole grammar of the Scripture in doubt.


There are so many Bibles now and the reason some passages may seem so contradictory is simply that different books, and even different passages in one book, were written by different authors with different theological and political viewpoints. The interpretation of the Law is one point of contention or the 4 Gospels and so is the Penitent Thief on the Cross another good example.


As many quote Paul (wrongly by the way as he never says the Law is done away with at all) and do not answer when I ask them what Jesus meant when he clearly says the Law still stands until Heaven and the Earth pass away. If Jesus said that the Law hasn't passed away then it hasn't.


This is what I mean, that it is interpreted wrongly and not that “scripture” contradicts itself but it isn't clear to some so they take some other view over Jesus and what he actually said..


Chose Jesus and his Word over others if in doubt was what I was trying to say.


I do not believe that Scripture contradicts itself, but we have to answer correctly if some say it does. Otherwise why do you think so many people believe so many different interpretations of the Scripture?


There are too many different teachings on it and only one can be right. Jesus.

Sadly, Talking with you is often similar to talking to a voice recording.

SG

Some posts on this thread have quoted Paul on the Law yet Jesus said not one “jot or tittle shall pass from the Law”, putting Paul against what Jesus said but Paul doesn't say that.

Sadly, Talking with you is often similar to talking to a voice recording.

SG

Hi Heyjude, nice to meet you!

I've heard of this idea that maybe there is a conflict between what Jesus said when he walked here on Earth and what the apostles later wrote in their Epistles.

One thing a person may wish to consider is who is likely to have a better understanding of what Jesus meant? Those who grew up in the same culture and spoke the same native language? Or those of us today, 2000 years later?

I think another interesting question is, who wrote the book of Matthew? If it was an apostle who wrote down the words of Jesus in that book, then what happens if an apostle can't be trusted?

thinking that Jesus and His apostles are saying different things is not something you should be comfortable with believing.

why do you think so many people believe so many different interpretations of the Scripture?

I do not think that Jesus and His apostles are saying different things it is just "interpreted" to be that way by some.

I was especially talking about what Jesus said about the Law which was some on here say is done away with.

hooray!



why don't Christians make blood sacrifices and offerings or stone people to death for offenses?

Well I guess there are 4 Gospels for that reason and like all viewpoints they vary slightly like any witness accounts. But they mostly agree I think. Why is Christianity not all of one viewpoint?


World Christianity consists of 6 major ecclesiastico-cultural blocs, divided into 300 major ecclesiastical traditions, composed of over 33,000 distinct denominations in 238 countries.


There cannot be 33,000 different representations of Jesus. No one should doubt the Apostles but Bibles can differ in their interpretation and many people don't actually read the Bible but listen to the Preachers without reading it at all.


Most Churches in the UK quote Paul more than Jesus although I am not sure why this is.

But disputes over whether some of Mark is dubious or whether Jesus preached to Noah's people or not are just mistranslation errors which do not help. That is why I stick to the KJV because it's written in the simplest language. I do not know all the answers but I know that people's beliefs on this forum differ greatly. How can that be?


Just read the “speaking in tongues” posts on earlier today. All the posts quote the same Scripture but they read them differently or “interpret” them differently.


I do not think that Jesus and His apostles are saying different things it is just "interpreted" to be that way by some. Jesus made clear all his words and if some say they contradict others statements (or appear to do so to them) then Jesus is the first to believe is what I meant. I was especially talking about what Jesus said about the Law which was some on here say is done away with.