Why do Dispensationalists teach Separation Theology?

Did you see my posts about how I believe there's parallel wording in the following two passages:

[quoting a portion of those previous posts]

The wording of 2 Thessalonians 2:7b-8a is very similar to that of Lamentations 2:3-4 (in the context of "WRATH" words and "judgments" on Israel),

--where it [2Th2:7-8a] says, "the one restraining at present, will restrain, UNTIL out of the midst he be come [come to be], AND THEN shall that Wicked be revealed..." ; and

--Lam2:3-4 says (in very similar language), "...he hath drawn back his right hand from before the enemy [effectively saying (to their enemies) 'HAVE AT IT!'/'go ahead, sic 'em!'], and he burned against Jacob like like a flaming fire, which devoureth round about."

IOW, I believe this will only take place when Jesus will "STAND to JUDGE" [Isa3:13, Rev4-5--at the START of the future "7-yrs," paralleling Matt24:4/Mk13:5 "G1500 - tis - 'A CERTAIN ONE'" and 2Th2:9a "whose COMING/advent/arrival/presence" of the man of sin "IN HIS TIME," parallel of the "INITIAL birth PANG [SINGULAR; already mentioned in the Matt24:4/Mk13:5 verse; but also here in 1Th5:2-3 'singular' birth PANG]," at the START of the 7-yrs, just as in Daniel 9:27[26] "prince THAT SHALL COME" / "for ONE WEEK [7 yrs]")

[end quoting]


So, in this way, "the AC" (with definite article) would be what Jesus is using AS part of the "judgment" when He STANDS and opens the FIRST SEAL … (and part of the PURPOSE of the trib, is also to bring Israel into the New Covenant... "the WISE [of Israel]" will do so); IOW, the "wrath" doesn't start LATER in the trib, but at the START (of the 7-yr period, at SEAL #1)

But does he unleash his wrath on them by permitting the rise of the AC or does he send his wrath because the earth worships the AC and God does not approve? If so the AC rises without the Lords approval and the wrath is in regards.

iasas, ^ Jesus is the One OPENING the "first seal" (in Heaven) [after a "searching judgment" as indicated by the "was found" wording in Rev5:4 (used also in Paul's court-trials in the end of Acts, for example)] ...and then the effect of that unfolds upon the earth (and I supplied what all I believe are the parallel passages to that [seal 1 / INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR; 1Th5:2-3/Mt24:4/Mk13:5]" / etc...])

Enjoy your delusion. You have a lot of company.

Well if they do not ibey the gospel, they are not the church,

The true church is ready no matter when it happens (pre, mid or post) in fact does not scripture state there will be a falling away first? I think we see this today, the true church is getting smaller and smaller, because much of the the grand church as we much knew it is falling away.

But what does scripture say?

We will be saved (spared) from wrath.

I saw you pose this question a few days ago, but haven't had time to get back to it.

You may recall my saying I believe ALL of the Matt24 (and Mk13) sections of the Olivet Discourse play out in the [far-future, to when written] tribulation period (that is, FOLLOWING our Rapture).

That's how I see this passage as well (also Lk17:24-37 along with that [also Lk18:8's "AVENGE IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" (comp. Rev1:1's "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]")]). I don't believe that it's making the point that all is peaceful and hunky dory... I believe the point being made (in saying "eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage") is more like that they disregarded God's word (as in Noah's day, when God's word came via Noah ['a preacher of righteousness']). So that I see it more like the following quote:

[quoting Gaebelein]

"Enoch is a type of the Church. He prophesied of coming judgment (the deluge) but did not pass through that judgment. Even so the true Church, when the Lord comes, will be taken from earth to glory without dying, before tribulation, wrath and judgment come upon this age, which ends like the days of Noah. Enoch also received testimony before he was translated that he pleased God, for he walked in faith in His presence and in His fellowship. This is the walk into which all God’s people are called and which faith and the power of the indwelling spirit make possible. Without faith (a faith which clings close to Him, trusts in His word and is obedient) it is impossible to please Him.

"Hebrews 11:7 speaks of Noah and his faith. In this verse we find mentioned the ground of faith (warned of God); the realm of faith (things not seen); the exercise of faith (he feared); the work of faith (he prepared an ark); the result of faith (he saved his house); the testimony of faith (he condemned the world) and the reward of faith (heir to righteousness). It is the most remarkable verse in the whole chapter. Enoch was caught up to heaven before the deluge came. Noah was warned of the unseen judgment to come (which Enoch had warned would come) and was roused with godly fear. He is a type of the godly remnant of Jews at the end of this present age, who will pass through tribulation and judgment, after the true Church has left the earth, and having passed through the judgment, as Noah did, will inherit the earth. Noah represents the faith and exercise of this Jewish remnant, which will be saved out of the judgments at the close of this age."

--Gaebelein, Commentary on Hebrews 11 (source: Bible Hub)

[end quoting]

^ [I only differ slightly with his use of the phrase "[at the close of] THIS AGE"/"this present age" as he uses these]

EDIT to add: I forgot to mention also (as I have in past posts)… "comp. Genesis 9:1 with Daniel 2:35 '[actively] fill/filled the [whole] earth' (alongside these Matt24 and Lk17 passages re: Noah [and those ("still-living" persons/saints [like Dan12:12]) entering the MK age in mortal bodies, capable of bearing children/reproducing])"

No such animal as replacement theology. It is a new term invented by dispensationalists for anyone who is not in agreement with modern pop-prophecy.

Nobody believes that anyone is replaced, its simply that the Lord's Church believes there is only one people of God, as Ephesians and the rest of the Bible teaches. Both Jews and Gentiles can join this one people of God by being in Christ.

I would consider the context, as well as how the particular verse is referenced in the NT.

For instance, if Paul or the apostles are applying it to the Church, or to Jesus, in the NT, then I would apply it to the Church, or to Jesus. However, it may have a dual meaning.

For instance, Matthew applied the Scripture regarding Israel going down into Egypt to Jesus. Jesus is the True Israel.

Does that negate the fact that the nation of Israel went into Egypt? No. However, it shows me that Jesus was typological of Israel.

Matthew 2:15 15 and remained there until the death of Herod. This was to fulfill what the Lord had spoken by the prophet, “Out of Egypt I called my son.”

Hosea 11:1 When Israel was a child, I loved him,
and out of Egypt I called my son.

I mean to read books by DA Carson and GK Beale related to this:

https://smile.amazon.com/Commentary...New+testament&qid=1568383969&s=gateway&sr=8-2

https://smile.amazon.com/Handbook-N...ment+handbook&qid=1568384015&s=gateway&sr=8-3

If you read the entire book of Matthew, you will see that he portrays Jesus as the True Adam and the True Israel.

For instance, elements of the temptation of Satan in Matt 4 correspond with Gen 3.

Incorrect.

I am one of those who waits for my Messiah.

Being a dispensationalist has nothing to do with that.

It is often presented that dispensationalists are the ones who believe Jesus can return at any moment, and therefore they live in eager anticipation of it, whereas others do not. Often, this is coupled with the idea that dispensationalists are more concerned with expelling sin from their lives.

I am not sure if this is what you are referring to.

Any knowledgeable Christian knows that he is not guaranteed the next breathe of his life, and that he could enter into the presence of his Lord at any moment. I was in a serious auto accident 3 years ago, and I live in constant awareness of this.

No, I am not. I have been on disability for a while due to injuries, so I have had free time to study the Bible and theology. I was also involved in a parachurch ministry where I discipled and evangelized people for about 2 years.

when you replace theology of the promises made to a nation, and relate them to the church, which is never was met to be related to. this is called replacement theology. and is a false teaching, although not in my view heretical because no one will lose or gain salvation by believing in it.

Nice cop-out.. Attack the people not the doctrine itself. I take it this is because you can not show how the true or belief is wrong?

Dispensationals believe there is only one people of God, it is called the church, and composed of both jew and gentile

But it also believes God seperated one nation from all nations, and gave them specific promises, which he NEVER promised anyone else and called these promises ETERNAL.

so 1, You prove you do not understand what dispensationals believe
2. You miss the whole point they are making.

Kinda hard to appose or call a group of people wrong, when you do not even understand what they believe.

Firstly, the word is "everlasting". The Hebrew word is "ôlâm" and it basically means "age-lasting".

For instance, the same word is used in regards to physical circumcision in the verses which follow:

Genesis 17:1-14 1 When Abram was ninety-nine years old the Lord appeared to Abram and said to him, “I am God Almighty; walk before me, and be blameless, 2 that I may make my covenant between me and you, and may multiply you greatly.” 3 Then Abram fell on his face. And God said to him, 4 “Behold, my covenant is with you, and you shall be the father of a multitude of nations. 5 No longer shall your name be called Abram, but your name shall be Abraham, for I have made you the father of a multitude of nations. 6 I will make you exceedingly fruitful, and I will make you into nations, and kings shall come from you. 7 And I will establish my covenant between me and you and your offspring after you throughout their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and to your offspring after you. 8 And I will give to you and to your offspring after you the land of your sojournings, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession, and I will be their God.”
9 And God said to Abraham, “As for you, you shall keep my covenant, you and your offspring after you throughout their generations. 10 This is my covenant, which you shall keep, between me and you and your offspring after you: Every male among you shall be circumcised. 11 You shall be circumcised in the flesh of your foreskins, and it shall be a sign of the covenant between me and you. 12 He who is eight days old among you shall be circumcised. Every male throughout your generations, whether born in your house or bought with your money from any foreigner who is not of your offspring, 13 both he who is born in your house and he who is bought with your money, shall surely be circumcised. So shall my covenant be in your flesh an everlasting covenant. 14 Any uncircumcised male who is not circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin shall be cut off from his people; he has broken my covenant.

However, it is painfully obvious to me that neither the Mosaic Covenant, nor circumcision, are in effect today.

There are other things that are mentioned as ôlâm that are not in effect anymore, including activities related to the Aaronic and Levitical priesthoods. I would encourage a word search for the Hebrew word ôlâm.

In fact, the "everlasting" reference is a common claim Sabbathkeepers make. They claim that the Sabbath is a forever commandment for this reason.

So, the word used in regards to "everlasting" doesn't necessarily mean eternal. It means to the end of a specified period. Additionally, the same word is used in regards to physical circumcision, which is not in effect anymore.

At the same time, as I have contended, all of Abraham's descendants, physical and spiritual, receive the entire globe per Romans 4. This is because they have been joined to Christ, who is the perfectly obedient child of Abraham, and they become spiritual Israelites as a result.

I disagree, everlasting means everlasting, it NEVER ENDS.

The problem with EG's logic is that he thinks Abraham's SEED are the physical descendants of Abraham.... IT IS NOT!

Gal_3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

The seed of Genesis 7 is that seed in Galatians 3:29... Abraham was the father of MANY NATIONS and has many different SEEDS. And the uncircumcised of the heart, Jesus hating Jews ARE NOT the ones of Genesis 7. Those rebellious God hating Jews are the enemy of the gospel.

EVER, EVERLASTING
˓olam (עוֹלָם, 5769), “eternity; remotest time; perpetuity.” This word has cognates in Ugaritic, Moabite, Phoenician, Aramaic, Arabic, and Akkadian. It appears about 440 times in biblical Hebrew and in all periods.
First, in a few passages the word means “eternity” in the sense of not being limited to the present. Thus, in Eccl. 3:11 we read that God had bound man to time and given him the capacity to live “above time” (i.e., to remember yesterday, plan for tomorrow, and consider abstract principles); yet He has not given him divine knowledge: “He hath made every thing beautiful in his time: also he hath set the world in their heart, so that no man can find out the work that God maketh from the beginning to the end.”
Second, the word signifies “remotest time” or “remote time.” In 1 Chron. 16:36, God is described as blessed “from everlasting to everlasting” (kjv, “for ever and ever”), or from the most distant past time to the most distant future time. In passages where God is viewed as the One Who existed before the creation was brought into existence, ˓olam (or ˓olam) may mean: (1) “at the very beginning”: “Remember the former things [the beginning things at the very beginning] of old: for I am God, and there is none else …” (Isa. 46:9); or (2) “from eternity, from the pre-creation, till now”: “Remember, O Lord, thy tender mercies and thy lovingkindnesses; for they have been ever of old [from eternity]” (Ps. 25:6). In other passages, the word means “from (in) olden times”: “… Mighty men which were of old, men of renown” (Gen. 6:4). In Isa. 42:14, the word is used hyperbolically meaning “for a long time”: “I have long time holden my peace; I have been still, and refrained myself.…” This word may include all the time between the ancient beginning and the present: “The prophets that have been before me and before thee of old prophesied …” (Jer. 28:8). The word can mean “long ago” (from long ago): “For [long ago] I have broken thy yoke, and burst thy bands …” (Jer. 2:20). In Josh. 24:2, the word means “formerly; in ancient times.” The word is used in Jer. 5:15, where it means “ancient”: “Lo, I will bring a nation upon you from far, O house of Israel, saith the Lord: it is a mighty nation, it is an ancient nation.…” When used with the negative, ˓olam (or ˓olam) can mean “never”: “We are thine: thou never barest rule [literally, “not ruled from the most distant past”] over them …” (Isa. 63:19). Similar meanings emerge when the word is used without a preposition and in a genitive relationship to some other noun.
With the preposition ˓ad, the word can mean “into the indefinite future”: “An Ammonite or Moabite shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord; even to their tenth generation shall they not enter into the congregation of the Lord for ever” (Deut. 23:3). The same construction can signify “as long as one lives”: “I will not go up until the child be weaned, and then I will bring him, that he may appear before the Lord, and there abide for everʷ (1 Sam. 1:22). This construction then sets forth an extension into the indefinite future, beginning from the time of the speaker. In the largest number of its occurrences, ˓olam (or ˓olam) appears with the preposition le. This construction is weaker and less dynamic in emphasis than the previous phrase, insofar as it envisions a “simple duration.” This difference emerges in 1 Kings 2:33, where both phrases occur. Le˓olam is applied to the curse set upon the dead Joab and his descendants. The other more dynamic phrase (˓ad ˓olam), applied to David and his descendants, emphasizes the ever-continued, ever-acting presence of the blessing extended into the “indefinite future”: “Their blood shall therefore return upon the head of Joab, and upon the head of his seed for ever [le ˓olam]: but upon David, and upon his seed, and upon his house, and upon his throne, shall there be peace for ever [˓ad ˓olam] from the Lord.” In Exod. 21:6 the phrase le ˓olam means “as long as one lives”: “… And his master shall bore his ear through with an awl; and he shall serve him for ever.” This phrase emphasizes “continuity,” “definiteness,” and “unchangeability.” This is its emphasis in Gen. 3:22, the first biblical occurrence of ˓olam (or ˓olam): “… And now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever.…”
The same emphasis on “simple duration” pertains when ˓olam (or ˓olam) is used in passages such as Ps. 61:8, where it appears by itself: “So will I sing praise unto thy name for ever, that I may daily perform my vows.” The parallelism demonstrates that ˓olam (or ˓olam) means “day by day,” or “continually.” In Gen. 9:16, the word (used absolutely) means the “most distant future”: “And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature.…” In other places, the word means “without beginning, without end, and ever-continuing”: “Trust ye in the Lord for ever: for in the Lord Jehovah is everlasting strength” (Isa. 26:4).

The plural of this word is an intensive form.

The mere fact that god continued to say he will remember the covenant (see even dan and romans 11 ) shows it to be eternal at the very least, as long as this earth exists. And the promises are eternal even today all the nations are being blessed because of the seed, and some day all nations themselves will worship jesus

Even the mosaic, still condemns all who do not obey every word, it still acts as a schoolmaster to many leading them to christ, one day they jews will see it and prophesies and all isreal will be saved (rom 11)

Here's an example of how the same word is used:


Exodus 29:9 9 and you shall gird Aaron and his sons with sashes and bind caps on them. And the priesthood shall be theirs by a statute forever. Thus you shall ordain Aaron and his sons.
(ESV Strong's)

It is obvious that the Aaronic priesthood is not in effect now. Read Hebrews.

ôlâm does not always mean "forever" but means something like "age-lasting".

At the same time, I have no issue with Abraham inheriting the entire world, as that is what Romans 4 says. His spiritual descendants also inherit it through being joined to Jesus.