Why do Dispensationalists teach Separation Theology?

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UnitedWithChrist

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EVER, EVERLASTING
˓olam (עוֹלָם, 5769), “eternity; remotest time; perpetuity.” This word has cognates in Ugaritic, Moabite, Phoenician, Aramaic, Arabic, and Akkadian. It appears about 440 times in biblical Hebrew and in all periods.
First, in a few passages the word means “eternity” in the sense of not being limited to the present. Thus, in Eccl. 3:11 we read that God had bound man to time and given him the capacity to live “above time” (i.e., to remember yesterday, plan for tomorrow, and consider abstract principles); yet He has not given him divine knowledge: “He hath made every thing beautiful in his time: also he hath set the world in their heart, so that no man can find out the work that God maketh from the beginning to the end.”
Second, the word signifies “remotest time” or “remote time.” In 1 Chron. 16:36, God is described as blessed “from everlasting to everlasting” (kjv, “for ever and ever”), or from the most distant past time to the most distant future time. In passages where God is viewed as the One Who existed before the creation was brought into existence, ˓olam (or ˓olam) may mean: (1) “at the very beginning”: “Remember the former things [the beginning things at the very beginning] of old: for I am God, and there is none else …” (Isa. 46:9); or (2) “from eternity, from the pre-creation, till now”: “Remember, O Lord, thy tender mercies and thy lovingkindnesses; for they have been ever of old [from eternity]” (Ps. 25:6). In other passages, the word means “from (in) olden times”: “… Mighty men which were of old, men of renown” (Gen. 6:4). In Isa. 42:14, the word is used hyperbolically meaning “for a long time”: “I have long time holden my peace; I have been still, and refrained myself.…” This word may include all the time between the ancient beginning and the present: “The prophets that have been before me and before thee of old prophesied …” (Jer. 28:8). The word can mean “long ago” (from long ago): “For [long ago] I have broken thy yoke, and burst thy bands …” (Jer. 2:20). In Josh. 24:2, the word means “formerly; in ancient times.” The word is used in Jer. 5:15, where it means “ancient”: “Lo, I will bring a nation upon you from far, O house of Israel, saith the Lord: it is a mighty nation, it is an ancient nation.…” When used with the negative, ˓olam (or ˓olam) can mean “never”: “We are thine: thou never barest rule [literally, “not ruled from the most distant past”] over them …” (Isa. 63:19). Similar meanings emerge when the word is used without a preposition and in a genitive relationship to some other noun.
With the preposition ˓ad, the word can mean “into the indefinite future”: “An Ammonite or Moabite shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord; even to their tenth generation shall they not enter into the congregation of the Lord for ever” (Deut. 23:3). The same construction can signify “as long as one lives”: “I will not go up until the child be weaned, and then I will bring him, that he may appear before the Lord, and there abide for everʷ (1 Sam. 1:22). This construction then sets forth an extension into the indefinite future, beginning from the time of the speaker. In the largest number of its occurrences, ˓olam (or ˓olam) appears with the preposition le. This construction is weaker and less dynamic in emphasis than the previous phrase, insofar as it envisions a “simple duration.” This difference emerges in 1 Kings 2:33, where both phrases occur. Le˓olam is applied to the curse set upon the dead Joab and his descendants. The other more dynamic phrase (˓ad ˓olam), applied to David and his descendants, emphasizes the ever-continued, ever-acting presence of the blessing extended into the “indefinite future”: “Their blood shall therefore return upon the head of Joab, and upon the head of his seed for ever [le ˓olam]: but upon David, and upon his seed, and upon his house, and upon his throne, shall there be peace for ever [˓ad ˓olam] from the Lord.” In Exod. 21:6 the phrase le ˓olam means “as long as one lives”: “… And his master shall bore his ear through with an awl; and he shall serve him for ever.” This phrase emphasizes “continuity,” “definiteness,” and “unchangeability.” This is its emphasis in Gen. 3:22, the first biblical occurrence of ˓olam (or ˓olam): “… And now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever.…”
The same emphasis on “simple duration” pertains when ˓olam (or ˓olam) is used in passages such as Ps. 61:8, where it appears by itself: “So will I sing praise unto thy name for ever, that I may daily perform my vows.” The parallelism demonstrates that ˓olam (or ˓olam) means “day by day,” or “continually.” In Gen. 9:16, the word (used absolutely) means the “most distant future”: “And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature.…” In other places, the word means “without beginning, without end, and ever-continuing”: “Trust ye in the Lord for ever: for in the Lord Jehovah is everlasting strength” (Isa. 26:4).

The plural of this word is an intensive form.

The mere fact that god continued to say he will remember the covenant (see even dan and romans 11 ) shows it to be eternal at the very least, as long as this earth exists. And the promises are eternal even today all the nations are being blessed because of the seed, and some day all nations themselves will worship jesus

Even the mosaic, still condemns all who do not obey every word, it still acts as a schoolmaster to many leading them to christ, one day they jews will see it and prophesies and all isreal will be saved (rom 11)
Exodus 29:9 9 and you shall gird Aaron and his sons with sashes and bind caps on them. And the priesthood shall be theirs by a statute forever. Thus you shall ordain Aaron and his sons.
(ESV Strong's)

It is obvious that the Aaronic priesthood is not in effect now. Read Hebrews.

ôlâm does not always mean "forever" but means something like "age-lasting".

At the same time, I have no issue with Abraham inheriting the entire world, as that is what Romans 4 says. His spiritual descendants also inherit it through being joined to Jesus.
 

UnitedWithChrist

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I disagree, everlasting means everlasting, it NEVER ENDS.

The problem with EG's logic is that he thinks Abraham's SEED are the physical descendants of Abraham.... IT IS NOT!

Gal_3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

The seed of Genesis 7 is that seed in Galatians 3:29... Abraham was the father of MANY NATIONS and has many different SEEDS. And the uncircumcised of the heart, Jesus hating Jews ARE NOT the ones of Genesis 7. Those rebellious God hating Jews are the enemy of the gospel. :)

Exodus 29:9 9 and you shall gird Aaron and his sons with sashes and bind caps on them. And the priesthood shall be theirs by a statute forever. Thus you shall ordain Aaron and his sons.
(ESV Strong's)

It is obvious that the Aaronic priesthood is not in effect now. Read Hebrews.

ôlâm does not always mean "forever" but means something like "age-lasting".

At the same time, I have no issue with Abraham inheriting the entire world, as that is what Romans 4 says. His spiritual descendants also inherit it through being joined to Jesus.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
I disagree, everlasting means everlasting, it NEVER ENDS.

The problem with EG's logic is that he thinks Abraham's SEED are the physical descendants of Abraham.... IT IS NOT!

Gal_3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

The seed of Genesis 7 is that seed in Galatians 3:29... Abraham was the father of MANY NATIONS and has many different SEEDS. And the uncircumcised of the heart, Jesus hating Jews ARE NOT the ones of Genesis 7. Those rebellious God hating Jews are the enemy of the gospel. :)
Another one :rolleyes:

EG believes Abraham's seed is many nations not just jew. He said many kings (nations) will come from him also, and though christ, we are adopted seeds which also are a part of him.

EG just also believes that through one seed (Issac and jacob/Israel) is the means by which all nations are blessed, (christ) and also recipiants of specific promises not given the the rest of his seed

Please if you want to judge EG at least attempt to figure out what he believes.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Exodus 29:9 9 and you shall gird Aaron and his sons with sashes and bind caps on them. And the priesthood shall be theirs by a statute forever. Thus you shall ordain Aaron and his sons.
(ESV Strong's)

It is obvious that the Aaronic priesthood is not in effect now. Read Hebrews.

ôlâm does not always mean "forever" but means something like "age-lasting".

At the same time, I have no issue with Abraham inheriting the entire world, as that is what Romans 4 says. His spiritual descendants also inherit it through being joined to Jesus.
please read what I posted. I never said it always means forever. My argument was that it can.

then I used other biblical proofs to show it is still in effect even today.

then I also said when this earth ceases to exist and we have a new heaven and earth, There is nothing left of that promise to continue (the land is gone, and all of Gods family is complete. there is no more people left to come throuogh christ to be adopted as children of Abraham)
 

TheDivineWatermark

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Firstly, the word is "everlasting". The Hebrew word is "ôlâm" and it basically means "age-lasting".
[…]
So, the word used in regards to "everlasting" doesn't necessarily mean eternal. It means to the end of a specified period. Additionally, the same word is used in regards to physical circumcision, which is not in effect anymore.
I've made a similar point before, in reference to what Hebrews 1:8 is conveying :

"[Unto the Son...the throne of you] … is unto the age [singular] of the age [singular], and the sceptre [/rod] of righteousness is the sceptre of you."

https://biblehub.com/text/hebrews/1-8.htm

...which we see Rev19:15b stating "and He SHALL [future] rule [/shepherd/feed] them [the nations] with a rod [sceptre] of iron [righteousness and strength]." (that is, future to that point in the chronology, same as in Daniel 7:27[25] and Daniel 2:35, etc... (see also Rev2:26-27 for the others whom this will involve too). [noting the thing I've stated b/f about how 1Cor15:24's "THEN the end" ['THEN'] in the Grk being a SEQUENCE word only, with no time-element attached to it--IOW, this word is not conveying "THEN [immediately] the end"]


[the phrase "unto the age [singular] of the age [singular]" ^ (connected with "earth-time/history") is not the same as the phrase "unto the ages [plural] of the ages [plural]"/"eternity"/"forever"/eternal state, etc]
 
Nov 23, 2013
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Another one :rolleyes:

EG believes Abraham's seed is many nations not just jew. He said many kings (nations) will come from him also, and though christ, we are adopted seeds which also are a part of him.

EG just also believes that through one seed (Issac and jacob/Israel) is the means by which all nations are blessed, (christ) and also recipiants of specific promises not given the the rest of his seed

Please if you want to judge EG at least attempt to figure out what he believes.
Gal_4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

We are IDENTICAL to Isaac, Isaac's fleshly heritage has nothing to do with him being a child of the promise.... God's elect.
 

UnitedWithChrist

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But what does scripture say?

We will be saved (spared) from wrath.
I am assuming we are talking about Romans 5:9.

Romans 5:9 9 Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God.

There's two ways this could be explained.

One, it is talking about the "wrath of God" in terms of eternal judgment. I don't think it's talking about a guarantee of exemption from the hardships of events relating to the end times.

Two, it is talking about the "wrath of God" in terms of the last bowl judgments.

Most of the events of Revelation, regardless of the time periods it is describing, are Satan's wrath against the people of God, for witnessing to the true gospel. The book clearly portrays the saints as crying out to God for vengeance against the evil followers of Satan who persecute them.

However, the last "bowl judgments" are God's direct punishment against the enemies of God. One could view these events as the "wrath of God" while realizing that the rest of the events are Satan's wrath.

God is ultimately sovereign over all, but he will allow the followers of Satan to molest the followers of God, and this continues to happen everyday.

However, he will not pour out his eschatological wrath upon believers, since they will have been resurrected by that time anyways.

I don't think there's any guarantee of exemption from hardship, suffering, and even martyrdom surrounding these events, though.

Somehow Americans remain oblivious to the plight of their brothers, even today, and think somehow that God is going to spare them from suffering.

By the way, there is a sense in which our ultimate salvation is a future event. Listed are some Scriptures in regards to this. There is an already, but not yet, aspect to salvation. Of course, believers are already justified, but salvation is, in one sense, a process that culminates in glorification.

Romans 5:9 5:9–10 Paul signals the importance of what he says here by saying it twice: God’s initial work in justifying sinful people and reconciling them to himself shows that he will surely complete his work by saving those same people from his wrath at the time of his judgment. shall we be saved . . . shall we be saved. Ultimate deliverance from temptation, sin, and death, as is often found in Paul’s letters (1:16; 13:11; 1 Cor 5:5; 2 Cor 1:6; Phil 1:19, 28; 2:12; 1 Thess 5:9; 1 Tim 2:15; 4:16; 2 Tim 4:18).
(NIV Biblical Theology Study Bible)
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Gal_4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

We are IDENTICAL to Isaac, Isaac's fleshly heritage has nothing to do with him being a child of the promise.... God's elect.
Yes we are, In christ

I NEVER DENIED THIS, so once again, please stop with the false accusations.

But there were specific promises given to ISSAC which were NEVER MET FOR ME or you, or any literal physical or spiritual descendant of abraham outside of Issac,

these are the things no one wants to talk about
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
I am assuming we are talking about Romans 5:9.

Romans 5:9 9 Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God.

There's two ways this could be explained.

One, it is talking about the "wrath of God" in terms of eternal judgment. I don't think it's talking about a guarantee of exemption from the hardships of events relating to the end times.

Two, it is talking about the "wrath of God" in terms of the last bowl judgments.

Most of the events of Revelation, regardless of the time periods it is describing, are Satan's wrath against the people of God, for witnessing to the true gospel. The book clearly portrays the saints as crying out to God for vengeance against the evil followers of Satan who persecute them.

However, the last "bowl judgments" are God's direct punishment against the enemies of God. One could view these events as the "wrath of God" while realizing that the rest of the events are Satan's wrath.

God is ultimately sovereign over all, but he will allow the followers of Satan to molest the followers of God, and this continues to happen everyday.

However, he will not pour out his eschatological wrath upon believers, since they will have been resurrected by that time anyways.

I don't think there's any guarantee of exemption from hardship, suffering, and even martyrdom surrounding these events, though.

Somehow Americans remain oblivious to the plight of their brothers, even today, and think somehow that God is going to spare them from suffering.

By the way, there is a sense in which our ultimate salvation is a future event. Listed are some Scriptures in regards to this. There is an already, but not yet, aspect to salvation. Of course, believers are already justified, but salvation is, in one sense, a process that culminates in glorification.

Romans 5:9 5:9–10 Paul signals the importance of what he says here by saying it twice: God’s initial work in justifying sinful people and reconciling them to himself shows that he will surely complete his work by saving those same people from his wrath at the time of his judgment. shall we be saved . . . shall we be saved. Ultimate deliverance from temptation, sin, and death, as is often found in Paul’s letters (1:16; 13:11; 1 Cor 5:5; 2 Cor 1:6; Phil 1:19, 28; 2:12; 1 Thess 5:9; 1 Tim 2:15; 4:16; 2 Tim 4:18).
(NIV Biblical Theology Study Bible)
All judgments which are opened by Christ in rev (the seals, the bowls everything) are a part of Gods wrath.

I am not saying I am pre-trib,( I used to be, but now I am not sure) I just show people who try to say it must be this, there are flaws in their logic, and what they think is NOT set in stone.
 

UnitedWithChrist

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I've made a similar point before, in reference to what Hebrews 1:8 is conveying :

"[Unto the Son...the throne of you] … is unto the age [singular] of the age [singular], and the sceptre [/rod] of righteousness is the sceptre of you."

https://biblehub.com/text/hebrews/1-8.htm

...which we see Rev19:15b stating "and He SHALL [future] rule [/shepherd/feed] them [the nations] with a rod [sceptre] of iron [righteousness and strength]." (that is, future to that point in the chronology, same as in Daniel 7:27[25] and Daniel 2:35, etc... (see also Rev2:26-27 for the others whom this will involve too). [noting the thing I've stated b/f about how 1Cor15:24's "THEN the end" ['THEN'] in the Grk being a SEQUENCE word only, with no time-element attached to it--IOW, this word is not conveying "THEN [immediately] the end"]


[the phrase "unto the age [singular] of the age [singular]" ^ (connected with "earth-time/history") is not the same as the phrase "unto the ages [plural] of the ages [plural]"/"eternity"/"forever"/eternal state, etc]
I"m sorry...on this particular topic it is hard to follow your logic. I wish I could though :)
 

TheDivineWatermark

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Two, it is talking about the "wrath of God" in terms of the last bowl judgments.
Most of the events of Revelation, regardless of the time periods it is describing, are Satan's wrath against the people of God, for witnessing to the true gospel. The book clearly portrays the saints as crying out to God for vengeance against the evil followers of Satan who persecute them.
However, the last "bowl judgments" are God's direct punishment against the enemies of God. One could view these events as the "wrath of God" while realizing that the rest of the events are Satan's wrath.
I've given reason b/f on why I see all of the "Seals/Trumpets/Vials" as His wrath (not to mention some of the events of 70ad called "wrath" also (per Lk21:23,20 and Matt22:7), so I won't go into all that here...

but re: the VIALS/BOWLS, it says of them, "the seven LAST plagues" and "for IN THEM the wrath of God is COMPLETED" (I take that [cpl'd with the other quote ^ ] to mean, it is not when His wrath is STARTED).


Besides that, 1Th1:10 is just saying, "the One delivering US out from THE WRATH COMING" (it doesn't specify only the "God's" wrath aspect... though, as I just stated, I believe the entire trib ["S/T/V"] are His wrath... so you could say, even the aspect of when Satan's "having great wrath" point in time, is INCLUDED in what all 1Th1:10 is conveying)
 
Nov 23, 2013
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Yes we are, In christ

I NEVER DENIED THIS, so once again, please stop with the false accusations.

But there were specific promises given to ISSAC which were NEVER MET FOR ME or you, or any literal physical or spiritual descendant of abraham outside of Issac,

these are the things no one wants to talk about
Those promises were to Abraham’s seed, which seed? Physical seed, those who HATE God and are lost and unsaved, or those seed that are in Christ and yes Isaac was in Christ.

Which seed were the promises made to?

I’m not trying to be confrontational, I’m trying to help you see that God didn’t promise ANYTHING to the God hating unsaved Jews.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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Christ was in the CHURCH in the wilderness, they DRANK from that spiritual rock which was Christ. The Old Testament saints were saved just like us, they were Christians, in Christ, saved by grace through fairh BEFORE Christ came.

They are part of the church just like we are. They are heirs through Christ just like we are.

The church IS NOT NEW, it’s been around from the beginning.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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Flesh descendants of Abraham are not, never have been and never will be Gods chosen people UNLESS they come to Christ.
 

TheDivineWatermark

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EDIT (to my last post): I've pointed out how there are also "wrath" words in Ezek38:18-19[39:7], and that I believe this particular war is a PART of the "SEAL 2 WARS" (parallel Matt24:4-8, etc) early in the trib years (parallel Joseph's Gen45:1 thing, when there were "yet five years" remaining in his seven year famine [see also Gen46:2])
 
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Why is it a problem to believe that the Lord will literally come back to earth physically and visibly to set up His eternal Kingdom on earth? The Bible evidence is overwhelming. He is presently in Heaven in His glorified body, and all the saints will receive similar bodies at the Resurrection/Rapture.
We walk by faith... the unseen eternal as it is written.

I would offer there was not two promises of Isiah 53 as a outward demonstration of the pouring out of the Holy Spirt on all flesh all nations.. God is not a man (creation) as us and neither is there a flesh and blood mediator that stands between God and man .(daysman) (Job 9:32-33)

One is our Holy Father and infallible teacher as Master in heaven . We are to call no man infallible teacher master (Pope) on earth this is to include Jesus who had the same father working with him as we do, in Christ.

The word good is assigned as the seal or fingerprint of the father not seen not the Son of man seen . No such thing as holiness of the corrupted flesh. Men for some reason trying to make God into a man which he declares he is not. . . never was never could be a creation rather than the good Creator. as the Son of God . Not as the Son of man a creation

Matthew 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

When we would look to our living hope of a new body as informed in Hebrews all die not receiving the new incorruptible . . . Not these bodies of death. But a body that no one has seen, Those that will appear in the new heavens and earth, not made up of the corrupted rudiments of this world .The whole corrupted creation cries out as the wrath of God revealed from heaven

The incorruptible it would seem does not cloth the corruptible (dead). Like a wolf in sheep's wool. The new will not be of corrupted flesh and blood, neither male nor female, Jew nor gentile. called the bride. We are clothed with his righteousness as the hidden glory .
I would offer. . we have the power of His glory in us but is not of us. The glory that will be revealed.

2 Thessalonians 2:14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

I think that will be revealed on the last day when the term "under the sun" no longer holds any value .The glory is revealed no need for the temporal time clock that began on day four and as it would seem his presence provided the source of light.

And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it. And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.Revelation21

The body that the Son of man dwelt in must of met the same requirements of our bodies of death. This in order to do what the law that kills could not do .Create anew, as a unseen law of faith .. . . together as one. . . perfect.The Just and the justifier of our new born again faith..

Romans 8:2-4 King James Version (KJV)For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.


It must of been true corrupted flesh and blood . Previously, Christ was represented by a theophany or a vision (Melchezedek) but not of flesh and bone made from the corrupted clay of the field..

The Son of man Jesus in the likeness man see.And not in the likeness of God not seen. the holy place of faith. Jesus said; it as flesh and blood profits for nothing.

It would seem to turn the attention to representation of the unseen work of the father and Son. The promise spoken of in Isaiah 53.
The father a loving authority having the greater position not seen the Holy place. The Son performing the labor of love or work of faith the suffering of Christ, trusting the will and strengthen of the father . . . one work.... one faith . the peace of God that surpasses our limited understanding. Creating in us a living abiding hope, again the peace of God that surpasses out limited understanding. .

No Father, no Son. .No Son, no Father . Have one have none. The government of God.

God is not a man as us, never was never could be. Jesus as the Son of man is not living in a two thousand year body as some would suggest. That was Peter's hope when he started a oral tradition of the fathers That Johns body became incorruptible. .Christ rebuked him . The Catholic use that to make Mary queen of heaven .Queen of the legion for we are many.

Jesus said of his own flesh and blood declaring it did not profit. His body was kept from corruption for those three days.

Some did known him after what they eyes see even though he did not receive worship in respect to the things seen. He called men faithless (no God in their hearts) when they did seek the glory of God after his corrupted flesh ...

Giving that good glory to the unseen father who worked with Christ in the Son of man to finish the "demonstration" of the lamb who was slain from the foundation of the world. When he was working. He rested from all his works on the 7th day .

Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. 2 Corinthians 5:16
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Those promises were to Abraham’s seed, which seed? Physical seed, those who HATE God and are lost and unsaved, or those seed that are in Christ and yes Isaac was in Christ.

Which seed were the promises made to?

I’m not trying to be confrontational, I’m trying to help you see that God didn’t promise ANYTHING to the God hating unsaved Jews.

Yes,

Lev 26 shows what will happen if Isreal dosobeys, and God kept his word

Lev 26 also shows, that even after the events of 70 AD, if they repent, he will remember the promises, and remember the land.

OT prophesies, along with Rom 11 shows that

1. The promises of God are irrevocable
2. Israel will repent
3. God will restore them BECAUSE they will repent

I am not trying to be confrontational either. I am just showing what the bible says, that yes, Israel is Gods enemy today (paul said this in ROM 11 also so he agrees with you) but also that if they repent, God will never forget his promise to THEM, Because his GIFTS and PROMISES are irrevocable
 

TheDivineWatermark

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I"m sorry...on this particular topic it is hard to follow your logic. I wish I could though :)
That may be because I didn't take time to spell out each reference I listed to make my points... I am a very slow typist (my apologies), and ppl rarely read very long posts so I try to keep it short, and also I expect the interested reader to examine the scriptures I include as support to what point or points I am endeavoring to communicate.

If you're not interested, it's perfectly fine by me. :)
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Christ was in the CHURCH in the wilderness, they DRANK from that spiritual rock which was Christ. The Old Testament saints were saved just like us, they were Christians, in Christ, saved by grace through fairh BEFORE Christ came.

They are part of the church just like we are. They are heirs through Christ just like we are.

The church IS NOT NEW, it’s been around from the beginning.
Amen I agree

but that is not what we are discussing.

We are discussing specific promises given to one of abrahams children (Issac) and one of his children (Jacob) and all 12 of his children and all of their descendants forever, as an everlasting gift to them.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Flesh descendants of Abraham are not, never have been and never will be Gods chosen people UNLESS they come to Christ.
yet they still have an inheritance. Because it is not them God gave it to, It was their father.

Their ability to enjoy that gift, or not, lies in Lev 26. That is still binding even today