Not By Works

When was Moses saved?

Listen Bud!! The Bible is very clear. To The one who does not work, but believes, his faith is counted for righteousness. Bearing fruit has nothing to do with salvation!!!

Man!! You’re really beating the tar out of that strawman

How do all these prove that a period of growth and maturity is REQUIRED before one bears anything, which was the way you put it?

1,001 excuses to say “a period of growth and maturity is REQUIRED before one can bear anything

And according to you, a period of growth and maturity is REQUIREDcbefore a believer can bear anything. Which would include these

I thank you, the My heart leapt for joy! , was very encouraging to me. You have all no idea how I had to abbreviate my testimony from the last week of 1977, up to the here and now. But somehow I hope I gave you the Encouragement you needed. He will reveal what HE wants you to do, and YOU CAN TRUST HIM TOTALLY to do it through you, and or give you the ability.

When had to Preach for the first time, IT was TOTALLY UNEXPECTED, because a Guest Pastor forgot it was his turn to deliver the message at the Prison Chapel. My knees turned to Jello, as I went in the Chaplains Office, shut the door, got down on my KNEES, and PRAYED. "Lord I cannot do this on my own, YOU HAVE TO FILL MY WITH YOUR SPIRIT, AND YOU HAVE TO PREACH THE SERMON, and I will TRUST YOU." In the Back of my BIBLE I had Written my Favorite Salvation Verses, there was the verses for a Sermon. I led the singing of a few hymns, and as I went to the Pulpit, I remembered a PRAYER, that Dr. Ed Young, used every Sunday on his TV program. "FATHER, I thank you for your HOLY WORD, that you gave thru the Prophets of old, and the Apostles of the New Testament. LORD, Let me get out of the way, YOU SPEAK, so that it will be as pure and true, as way you gave Your Word to us. In Jesus Name I pray."

All I had was just a few Salvation Verses, and HE PREACHED THRU ME. It was 40 minutes to be exact, the Words just FLOWED out of my MOUTH. I was FILLED with the SPIRIT THE WHOLE TIME.

The Head Chaplain asked me to take over that Service. My Grandfather used to say, "If it works, DON'T TRY TO FIX IT." So I trusted HIM to bring in my life a Subject that I needed to teach on Sunday. I would gather the VERSES, made sure I knew what they meant, AND TRUST HIM TO GIVE ME WHAT HE WANTED SAID about those VERSES. IT WORKED EVERY SUNDAY, I had to preach. I would Preach Filled with the SPIRIT every time, TOTALLY Trusting in HIM to give me the Words. Most of my sermons lasted about 50 minutes. After I got a Computer, I would print up nice looking Sermon Notes to give to the Inmates:




Never did I even write out one SERMON.

I now go to a Community Church, that is conservative evangelical in style. Still learning, and will never stop REALLY listening to the Sermons. I was born and raised Lutheran, but they only had 10 min. Sermons, a STARVATION DIET of the WORD, in my opinion. The Senior Pastor here teaches for an hour, every Sunday. I got old, 70 now, and in the last 4 years, I have had 7 strokes, two major, and 5 minis.
It runs in the family. I hope to see the Rapture, but HE has to BE QUICK ABOUT IT.

Last Post on this subject HERE.

I went thru the Original 1611 KJV PREFACE for the 4th time. IT STILL SCRABBLES MY BRAIN in places. PLUS he as severe problems with run on sentences. However, I picked up a couples of JEWELS:

QUOTE:

. . . This is the translation of the Seventy Interpreters, com- monly so called, which prepared the way for our Saviour among the Gen- tiles by written preaching . . . It is certain, that that Translation was not so sound and so perfect, but it needed in many places correc- tion; . . . { KNOWN ERRORS in the Septuagint }
. . . that the Seventy were Interpreters, they were not Prophets; they did many things well, as learned men; but yet as men they stumbled and fell, one while through oversight, another while through ignorance, yea, sometimes they may be noted to add to the Original, and sometimes to take from it; which made the Apostles to leave them many times, when they left the Hebrew, and to deliver the sense thereof according to the truth of the word, as the spirit gave them utterance. This may suffice touching the Greek Translations of the Old Testament. . . .

. . . But now the Latin Translations were too many to be all good, for they were infinite (Latini Interprets nullo modo numerari possunt, saith S. Augustine.) [S. Augustin. de doctr. Christ. lib 2 cap II]. Again they were not out of the Hebrew fountain (we speak of the Latin Translations of the Old Testament) but out of the Greek stream, therefore the Greek being not altogether clear, the Latin derived from it must needs be muddy. . . . 🖜

Was Moses ENGRAFTED in Jesus? When was he saved?

Ummmm...let me see...ummm... no, actually it doesn't say anything about men throwing them into the fire.

Where do you see a word for "man" here?

15:6 ἐὰν μή τις μένῃ ἐν ἐμοί ἐβλήθη ἔξω ὡς τὸ κλῆμα καὶ ἐξηράνθη καὶ συνάγουσιν αὐτὰ καὶ εἰς τὸ πῦρ βάλλουσιν καὶ καίεται

The strawman came to me and asked me to ask you to stop beating him up. Can you please leave the poor strawman alone? What did he ever do to you?

I feel I am on a similar path, as I was called to read all about Isaiah, amongst other scripture. There is also one strict condition I have put on me which sometimes I disobey. Did you ever get second looks from total strangers, or people would sit and talk to you and tell there life stories? I have also had others move away when I am at the mall etc. All I am doing is eating my McDonalds for goodness sake. This has been happening to me since late Primary school.

I haven't been following this closely so I don't know what the argument is here but bearing fruit is a RESULT of salvation. The bible even tells us what kind of fruit we bear.

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

I know. I am using the kind of rhetoric on DC that he always uses on me. I am DC'ing DC.

That was me doing my best DC impersonation. Just look at the post without thinking about who wrote it. Who does it sound, or more accurately read, like?

I agree that fruit is the result and fruit of salvation, not the cause or the root. But I am constantly accused of stating the latter.

No argument there. You can feed the poor all day and not have life in you.

To fail to be perfect in doing good, is not going to disqualify you from inheriting the kingdom. However, the sins listed in Galatians 5:19-21, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 will.

That is the argument.

Grammatically and biblically that is impossible (the underlined)......David spoke of HIS salvation in the PRESENT tense, JOHN said RIGHT NOW are we he SONS of GOD.....and the bible speaks of salvation in ALL three tenses......it also uses PERFECT and AORIST verb tenses.....

NO offence but the underline = a complete lack of textual honesty.....

No by works of righteousness which we have done but according to his mercy has he saved us <---PAST tense

In the grace we are, having BEEN SAVED through faith.....<--PAST TENSE

He that believes on the SON IS HAVING everlasting LIFE <---PRESENT TENSE

The One having saved us and having called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, having been given us in Christ Jesus before time eternal <-----PAST TENSE and GIVEN before TIME ETERNAL

Jesus said to him, “Today salvation has come to this house, because this man, too, is a son of Abraham.”

ACTS-->No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.

I tell you the truth, he who believes has everlasting life.

I can go on and on and on quoting verses that PROVE salvation is a present current possession and NOT something we GET at the end.....it is contextually dishonest to say or believe that we do not currently possess it....It is spoken of in ALL three tenses, and NOT one verse in context = the loss of it......the reason it is spoken of in ALL three tenses is because of the VERB tenses applied by the GREEK....A perfect TENSE GREEK VERB = a present continuing result from a past COMPLETED ACTION.....

WAS SAVED
AM SAVED
CONTINUING to BE SAVED......

NOT hardly........!!

Where sin abounds --->GRACE ABOUNDS THE MORE.....written to believers BECAUSE EVERY SIN WE HAVE EVER COMMITTED OR WILL COMMIT is covered by the BLOOD....but go ahead and keep believing you can be disqualified by your sin and MUST do something to maintain your salvation.....MY bible does not teach that....

I love the suggestion that if the Bible does not record it, no fruit has been produced. Moses did not produce a single fruit worthy of repentance before he started leading Israel

Faith worketh by love, God pours out love to our hearts, and it manifests righteousness. Its not just a positional standing with God but in conduct you remain the same, some "Protestants" teach it today but they are misinformed on the "Faith alone" held by Luther himself. Luther did not argue for a faith that produces nothing.

By faith we have these precious promises of God. We can do all things through Christ.

Outward sins are the measure of the state of the inward heart. If a person struggles for a time with a certain sin, it does not mean they lose their salvation. God will give them progressive victory over sin as they grow

But if someone says "I'm under grace, so the things in the texts you mentioned are permissable for me", they do not know Grace.

I'm not even sure at what point Moses came to know God. Does the Bible even say?

What text indicates that he knew God before the Burning Bush episode?

I disagree with the part of not having salvation till we meet him in the air.

We who believe have eternal life, present tense. (1 John 5:13)

...and the one's who overcome are the one's who believe. 1 John 5:5

ALL who believe are overcomers. ( 1 John :4)

...and all who overcome, inherit all things. Revelation 21:7

These four verses together teach the wholesome doctrine of perserverance of the Saints through the Preservation of God.