Is unconditional election biblical?
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Ephesians 1:3-14 3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, 4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love 5 he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. 7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, 8 which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight 9 making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ 10 as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.
11 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, 12 so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. 13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory. (ESV)
Anyone reading it can see it pertains to BOTH. Election conveys blessings which are mentioned.
And, for those claiming that predestination is only to be in Christ, and because they are in Christ, they enjoy the blessings...sections like 1 Cor 1:26ff refutes this. God chose particular individuals with particular characteristics give these blessings to.
He chose weak people so their salvation would be to HIS GLORY:
1 Corinthians 1:26-31 26 For consider your calling, brothers: not many of you were wise according to worldly standards, not many were powerful, not many were of noble birth. 27 But God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise; God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong; 28 God chose what is low and despised in the world, even things that are not, to bring to nothing things that are, 29 so that no human being might boast in the presence of God. 30 And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption, 31 so that, as it is written, “Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord.” (ESV)
The views of free-willers in this regard are simply indefensible. Additionally, God did these things for HIS glory. No one will be sitting in heaven bragging about some noble characteristic of theirs that contributed to their salvation.
Understand the concept of soli Deo gloria folks
11 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, 12 so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. 13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory. (ESV)
Anyone reading it can see it pertains to BOTH. Election conveys blessings which are mentioned.
And, for those claiming that predestination is only to be in Christ, and because they are in Christ, they enjoy the blessings...sections like 1 Cor 1:26ff refutes this. God chose particular individuals with particular characteristics give these blessings to.
He chose weak people so their salvation would be to HIS GLORY:
1 Corinthians 1:26-31 26 For consider your calling, brothers: not many of you were wise according to worldly standards, not many were powerful, not many were of noble birth. 27 But God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise; God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong; 28 God chose what is low and despised in the world, even things that are not, to bring to nothing things that are, 29 so that no human being might boast in the presence of God. 30 And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption, 31 so that, as it is written, “Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord.” (ESV)
The views of free-willers in this regard are simply indefensible. Additionally, God did these things for HIS glory. No one will be sitting in heaven bragging about some noble characteristic of theirs that contributed to their salvation.
Understand the concept of soli Deo gloria folks
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We must be careful in trying to determine who is going to hell and who is not. King David got into serious trouble with God for numbering Israel and as his punishment God took the lives of thousands of the nation of Israel. Yes All Israel is not of Israel. There is a nation of Israel and there is Jacob's Israel. God changed Jacob's name to be no more called Jacob, but to be called Israel, and Jacob is representative of God's elect.
I would think the choice would be on His part. He who is of one mind always does whatsoever his soul pleases .He perform that appointed to us he can make our hearts soft ( Job 23)
He desires no approval from the clay he forms Christ in as if he was served by the clay .
The elect, as many as the father gave to the Son are not saved without anyone's "work of faith" (let there be and there was). Faith without works is dead. Just as in the same way as a body without the unseen spirit essence of life.. . the breath of life. Without it a dead decaying body has nothing to offer..
But we are saved by the work of His faith as a labor of His love. He worked that out in Abel. Purified Abel's heart by a work of His faith.
No dispensations .The same work of faith working in us works in any generation.
Acts 15:8-10 King James Version (KJV) And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
He desires no approval from the clay he forms Christ in as if he was served by the clay .
The elect, as many as the father gave to the Son are not saved without anyone's "work of faith" (let there be and there was). Faith without works is dead. Just as in the same way as a body without the unseen spirit essence of life.. . the breath of life. Without it a dead decaying body has nothing to offer..
But we are saved by the work of His faith as a labor of His love. He worked that out in Abel. Purified Abel's heart by a work of His faith.
No dispensations .The same work of faith working in us works in any generation.
Acts 15:8-10 King James Version (KJV) And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
The Holy Spirit keeps all of those who belong to Jesus. Read John 6. They have been given a new nature that wants to please and obey God, so, yes, it is by their choice, but it also involves the intercession of Jesus their Savior on their behalf. No, there are none of the elect who do not persevere. Do you think God elects individuals, yet they fail to persevere? Is he some dummy god who loses sheep that belong to him? I think not.
Regarding the love of many growing cold due to the wickedness of society, it could be talking about professing believers who are not really saved, and time proves the fact that they are professors, not possessors, of real faith. It could be talking about believers whose love grows cold but is not extinguished. I cannot answer that question. However, I know that all of the elect will endure, and will be saved. That much is sure.
Concerning 2 Tim 2:13:
2 Timothy 2:13 2:13 he remains faithful. Paul could speak from the experience of opposing Christ but then receiving God’s grace, faith, and love (1 Tim 1:13–14). See Deut 7:9; Ps 31:5; 1 Cor 1:9; 10:13; 2 Cor 1:18. Human unbelief does not nullify God’s utter and eternal faithfulness (Rom 3:3–4). (NIV Biblical Theology Study Bible)
Regarding the love of many growing cold due to the wickedness of society, it could be talking about professing believers who are not really saved, and time proves the fact that they are professors, not possessors, of real faith. It could be talking about believers whose love grows cold but is not extinguished. I cannot answer that question. However, I know that all of the elect will endure, and will be saved. That much is sure.
Concerning 2 Tim 2:13:
2 Timothy 2:13 2:13 he remains faithful. Paul could speak from the experience of opposing Christ but then receiving God’s grace, faith, and love (1 Tim 1:13–14). See Deut 7:9; Ps 31:5; 1 Cor 1:9; 10:13; 2 Cor 1:18. Human unbelief does not nullify God’s utter and eternal faithfulness (Rom 3:3–4). (NIV Biblical Theology Study Bible)
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well you pull a verse out of a Psalm because you think it serves you, but it does not
Psalm 53 (very similar to Psalm 14)
The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.
2 God looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, that did seek God.
3 Every one of them is gone back: they are altogether become filthy; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
4 Have the workers of iniquity no knowledge? who eat up my people as they eat bread: they have not called upon God.
5 There were they in great fear, where no fear was: for God hath scattered the bones of him that encampeth against thee: thou hast put them to shame, because God hath despised them.
6 Oh that the salvation of Israel were come out of Zion! When God bringeth back the captivity of his people, Jacob shall rejoice, and Israel shall be glad.
the Psalm is talking about unbelievers...not the entire planet. if you were correct, which you are not, in stating no one ever sought God in the history of the world, then the Bible has some interesting fables going on
Psalm 53 (very similar to Psalm 14)
The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.
2 God looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, that did seek God.
3 Every one of them is gone back: they are altogether become filthy; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
4 Have the workers of iniquity no knowledge? who eat up my people as they eat bread: they have not called upon God.
5 There were they in great fear, where no fear was: for God hath scattered the bones of him that encampeth against thee: thou hast put them to shame, because God hath despised them.
6 Oh that the salvation of Israel were come out of Zion! When God bringeth back the captivity of his people, Jacob shall rejoice, and Israel shall be glad.
the Psalm is talking about unbelievers...not the entire planet. if you were correct, which you are not, in stating no one ever sought God in the history of the world, then the Bible has some interesting fables going on
So, according to your personal beliefs, on what basis does God choose who will be saved and who won't? Is it based on a whim, is it based on something good that He finds in the ones He chooses or is it because He is a capricious deity that uses people to either save and condemn to wind up in the garbage dumpster of the universe (hell)?
Am I better than God because my heart breaks for the poor bastards that were chosen to be lost in hell forever simply because God did not deem them worthy of the blood of Jesus?
Think before you respond, please.
Am I better than God because my heart breaks for the poor bastards that were chosen to be lost in hell forever simply because God did not deem them worthy of the blood of Jesus?
Think before you respond, please.
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So then, do you agree that God is a capricious deity that discards the very people He created because they are not worth a second look in His "holy" sight?
How would John 3:16 read to you if we changed it to fit your Calvinistic beliefs? "For God so loved the ELECT that He gave His only begotten Son to that ONLY THE ELECT would believe in Him and not perish"?
How would John 3:16 read to you if we changed it to fit your Calvinistic beliefs? "For God so loved the ELECT that He gave His only begotten Son to that ONLY THE ELECT would believe in Him and not perish"?
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God chooses based totally upon grace. In fact, he would be more likely to choose those who are lowly so that his glory can be shown more powerfully through them.
See 1 Cor 1:26ff.
Read Romans 9. He has a right to do with his creation as he pleases.
No one is worthy of the blood of Christ. He shows grace to those who he elects.
My point is, you can't create your theology based on what you think is right. God's thoughts are higher than our thoughts.
By the way, if I was going to be a wishy-washy, touchy-feely sort of guy, I would also somehow ignore the doctrine that hell is everlasting punishment. I wouldn't just stop at election. I would correct God on all points that seem unfair from a human perspective.
But I know that God is God and I am NOT. I am a human and I don't have his perspective. He does what he wants with his creation. Whether I like it or not.
And, to be honest, I think most free-willers are attempting to correct the Bible so that it suits their presuppositions.
See 1 Cor 1:26ff.
Read Romans 9. He has a right to do with his creation as he pleases.
No one is worthy of the blood of Christ. He shows grace to those who he elects.
My point is, you can't create your theology based on what you think is right. God's thoughts are higher than our thoughts.
By the way, if I was going to be a wishy-washy, touchy-feely sort of guy, I would also somehow ignore the doctrine that hell is everlasting punishment. I wouldn't just stop at election. I would correct God on all points that seem unfair from a human perspective.
But I know that God is God and I am NOT. I am a human and I don't have his perspective. He does what he wants with his creation. Whether I like it or not.
And, to be honest, I think most free-willers are attempting to correct the Bible so that it suits their presuppositions.
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Not sure if you are talking to me, but Scripture said that he "went to his place" (Acts 1:25) and he was the "son of perdition".
Pretty easy to figure out.
By the way, that's an indication that hell, indeed, has place for humans.
https://www.gotquestions.org/son-of-perdition.html
Pretty easy to figure out.
By the way, that's an indication that hell, indeed, has place for humans.
https://www.gotquestions.org/son-of-perdition.html
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Gotquestions.org said that God could have given Judas a heart of repentance, but he didn't. Matt 27:3-5 says he repented himself and confesses that he had betrayed the innocent blood, so do we really know for sure? I thought you said you relied upon the scriptures and did not consider other men's interpretations. Isn't gotquestions.org Pentecostal based?