Not By Works

I appreciate the questions.

I've got a Bible Study to do tonight at church, so I'll reply only briefly here for now...

Regarding the "thrones"... we are actually not "vying' for these. Remember Jesus said, "to sit on My right hand and on My left is not Mine to give, but it is for those for whom it is prepared.” (Mark 10:40)
I do believe the Scripture bears out that there is a specific number of those who will "rule" with Christ over the saved of the nations in Eternity.

One Truth that has helped me tremendously in understanding the Scripture, and the plan and purpose of God, is that being "saved" is the beginning, not the end, of our Journey. I'm currently doing an in-depth Bible Study on this from 1Cor 10:1-12, where Paul, by the Spirit, teaches that Israel being "saved" from bondage, baptized, partaking of Christ in the wilderness and having the Spirit to follow is the "type" that represents our salvation experience and testing to see if we will be among those who "serve God with a whole heart" and are found worthy to receive an "inheritance" in that "city that is to come." - 1Corinthians 10 Bible Study: Our Journey

So... God has ordained "thrones" from the foundation of the earth. And as with Esther, who God ordained to be the one to bring about "deliverance" to the Jews, she was told "if you remain completely silent at this time, relief and deliverance will arise for the Jews from another place, but you and your father’s house will perish. Yet who knows whether you have come to the kingdom for such a time as this?” (Esther 4:14), if God has destined any one of us to "sit with Him on His throne, ruling the nations" then we must do our part, or God will find another, who was worthy.

Our modern theologies of a 'Heaven or Hell' destiny, 'saved or lost' and we are all 'equal', are foreign to the canon of Scripture, and even to the Apocrypha and early Church writings.

Man, there is a lot that can be discussed on this and other topics. But if you or any are interested, I have explained a little of my understanding of the "royal priesthood" who will inherit Creation as Christ Jesus' "co-heir" and minister Life and healing to the saved of the nations in God's Kingdom; in a video that has resulted in my banishment from a couple other "Christian" forums. Although it is entirely backed by Scripture, so many refuse to accept what the Word says on this that we delve into in Psalm 132

Peace & Blessings, Wisdom & Understanding to all who walk with Jesus.
Michael

The “female” species has always been a great mystery....yes, indeed!

Sorry guys, we keep confusing y’all! Lol!

Oh gosh, just kidding! Couldn’t resist making that joke! Lol!

• it's Mordecai speaking, not God
• Mordecai is sure that deliverance for the Jews will come
• Mordecai says if it's not Esther, it will be later, and she & her family will perish in the meanwhile
• Mordecai suggests that perhaps God has ordained her to be His instrument for deliverance - specifically and personally - because that perhaps the situation which has come to be, is, for this specific purpose.
  
  

interesting passage
thanks. i'll get back tomorrow

Definitely not the same guy!! I was involved with Robert Thompson's church for 20 years, and this guy you mention above died many years before I was born!

No Robert Bentley Thompson was a Pastor at Mt Zion Fellowship in Poway from 1976 until he retired at the age of 93 last year. A solid man of God who preached Truth.
Much of what he taught I honestly didn't fully grasp unto the Lord moved me up to Hemet and began to speak to me and led me to write, and then teach at another Foursquare Church. The understanding that i have has come solely by the guidance of the Holy Spirit and the written Word alone.

What's Hemet?

It's a city in southern California.

Can I take a moment to talk about PROGRAM and STRUCTURE?

As brother VCO probably knows from doing prison ministry and many of us know from doing ministry now and prison before : STRUCTURE is really important to recovering addicts or people who have gone through tough times.

I always stress the importance of PROGRAM and STRUCTURE; never miss your daily program.

But recently I have had some people (Who are not convicts, ex-convicts but just regular people) tell me that by telling people to stick to a PROGRAM im putting extra-biblical RULES and REGULATIONS on them.

What do you guys think about this? Im not putting no rules on nobody, im just saying if you want to SUCCEED you cannot cannot cannot skip your daily routines of work, worship, workout <- thats it. the Triple W.
Why do I say that? Because I have seen and know first hand that once you slip ONCE, you slip a SECOND TIME and after that you are back on the same path you was in previously. TRUST ME thats how it goes. Im just trying to help people not put pharisee level of yoke on them.


What do you guys think? Is it WRONG for me to make people follow a certain PROGRAM/STRUCTURE in their life, people who got saved in prison or people who are in that lifestyle and are RECOVERING?
I STILL stick to what I believe is right and say I am NOT WRONG in doing so. Biblically speaking I know this has no merit, but experience-wise I know if you DONT work, worship and workout YOU WILL slip back to your habits. I have seen it NO LIE probably a thousand times!

Jesus said, "I will lose nothing the Father has given me, but raise it up the last day."

Jesus said, "He that believes on the Son is having everlasting life."

Jesus said, "He that believes on the Son is not condemned."

Do not let the deceivers, working for Christ devaluers lead you astray. The bible is clear, do not be removed from the simplicity found in Christ.

It pleased God, by the foolishness of preaching to SAVE THEM THAT BELIEVE <---NO WORKS, RELIGIOUS HOOP JUMPING, SACRAMENTS, CHURCH AFFILIATION, GETTING WET, and or any other religious rigmarole required.

God saves eternally by faith and JESUS, THE SON OF GOD AND GOD IN THE FLESH IS THE SOURCE OF SAID SAVING FAITH.

He that hath begun a good work of faith in you will FINISH IT and COMPLETE IT!

THE GIFTS AND CALLING OF GOD ARE IRREVOCABLE!!

I appreciate the like @dcontroversal but could you weigh in with an opinion bro?

I agree with your premise.....kind of like working out at a gym....as long as you stick to the schedule results will happen.....slack off and skip a day here and there it gets easier to skip more days and before long you are no longer working out......BUT there must be balance and the correct motivation behind the routine......when it comes to spirituality, one does not want to fall into a religious routine that leads to a religious rut that in turn makes your practice like organized religion where one just goes through the motions.......Within biblical Christianity.....MOTIVE is the key to blessing and success......

This sure sounds certain and specific, personal and individual predestination - "those for whom it is prepared"
So, a certain definite number because certain, definite people ordained beforehand according to His purpose?

I don't think that passage in Esther is saying what you think it is saying. I think what Mordecai is expressing is (1) his faith that God will deliver the Jews, one way or another, in the way that God has ordained and (2) his inclination that Esther may be in fact the specific person chosen and raised up by God specifically for that purpose. I don't think it's legitimate to make a doctrine of God juat having a slot open for whoever happens to come along and fill it out of what Mordecai says in encouragement to her.
Consider Samson - before he was born the Lord told his parents that he would begin to deliver Israel. Does that sound like Samson filled a generic open position or like God specifically, individually foreordained him?
My God does all His will.

For sure, we were saved unto good works which God prepared for us beforehand - by His hand - and we must take up what is before us in Him to do, and do it. If God has indeed prepared these things, He will also prepare and strengthen us to do them - in the same way that He said, take no thought ahead of time for what you will say when they drag you before the magistrates, because the Spirit will give you the words at that time.

So.......exercise is a TRAP!

Whew! Thanks for the warning! lol!

I do VERY MUCH like STRUCTURE but, with FLEXIBILITY. Learning how to bend with life's highs and lows, without breaking.

Some people are "high achievers" very results oriented, nothing wrong with this - God made us and wired all of us a little different. I'd say, each of us needs to find our balance and function in it - we'll be the most productive if we do.

Simply, enjoy how God created us individually.

Right on! Great post, dc.

Let's look at a few verses here...

“whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.” - Rom 10:13

"he who endures to the end shall be saved." - Matt 24:13

"He who believes and is baptized will be saved" - Mark 16:16

"how shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation" - Heb 2:3

"work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" - Phil 2:12

"He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him" - Heb 5:9

"If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved" - John 10:9

"I want to remind you, though you once knew this, that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe." - Jude 1:5

Every use of "saved" & "salvation" in these verses is from the same Greek word -

σώζω sṓzō - save, i.e. deliver or protect (literally or figuratively):
—heal, preserve, save (self), do well, be (make) whole.

My question to those who insist they are "saved" because of their professed belief, is "why are these verses, and many others, in the Bible?" We know all the letters and epistles were written only and directly to those who had been "saved", so what is all this "enduring", "working it out", "obeying" and being "baptized" talking about. Sounds like we haven't yet attained. Or has something changed and God is more lenient than He was with the disciples and Apostles?

"Not that I have already attained, or am already perfected; but I press on, that I may lay hold of that for which Christ Jesus has also laid hold of me. 13 Brethren, I do not count myself to have apprehended; but one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind and reaching forward to those things which are ahead, 14 I press toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.
15 Therefore let us, as many as are mature, have this mind; and if in anything you think otherwise, God will reveal even this to you."
- Phil 3:12-15

Oh yes, I believe all reading this have been "saved." But what are we doing with our "salvation"?
Will we be among those who "attain" and to whom "an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ." (2Pet 1:11); or will we "be destroyed" because we refused to "believe all that Jesus taught." ?

Truthfully, for us who have been "saved", the choice is ours. We are determining our eternal destiny daily by our behavior.

"Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. 8 For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life. " - Gal 6:7-8

Let us be counted among those who choose wisely.

"Then those who feared the Lord spoke to one another,
And the Lord listened and heard them;
So a book of remembrance was written before Him
For those who fear the Lord
And who meditate on His name.
17 “They shall be Mine,” says the Lord of hosts,
“On the day that I make them My jewels.
And I will spare them
As a man spares his own son who serves him.”
18 Then you shall again discern
Between the righteous and the wicked,
Between one who serves God
And one who does not serve Him."
- Mal 3:16-18

Amen.

On the flip side working out can be an obsession and addictive, always wanting to push a little harder and lift a little more.. been there too!






So maybe, the spiritual application on the flip side would be remembering to rest.

Hoping some day to lift like my son ..... a bragging moment for me

The Holy Spirit bears witness to those that are saved. There's no denying or doubting one's salvation when the Holy Spirit - the Spirit of Truth witnesses to you that you are saved. It's as true as when the Holy Spirit gives us understanding of salvation being only through believing in Yeshua/Jesus Christ - the gospel message.

The Holy Spirit seals, baptizes and fills us. We are set apart for God and God alone.

We do not go around being busy with doing works to keep our salvation, rather we get busy about the Kingdom of God - growing and maturing in the Word and being continually filled with the Holy Spirit.

We rejoice over the GIFT of Salvation and simply tell others, get busy about the Kingdom of God, and joyfully await the Return of Christ. We now get to enjoy a beautiful intimate relationship with the Father, Son and Holy Spirit - sin no longer separates us.

In the Letter to the Church at Ephesus - Yeshua/Jesus warned them that they had left their FIRST LOVE and got TOO BUSY BY FOCUSING ON GOOD WORKS.

I really CANNOT believe you actually said this: We are determining our eternal destiny daily by our behavior.

You are saying our "behavior" which is a cover up word for "works" determines our eternal destiny. THIS IS ABSOLUTELY NOT TRUE.

After we are saved, our "works/behavior" do NOT determine our eternal destiny.

ONLY by believing by faith and loving the Truth given to us by the Holy Spirit that the Blood and Body of Yeshua/Jesus Christ saves us, and confessing with our mouths this Truth that we believe in our hearts, are we saved.


ALL works necessary for salvation have been accomplished by Yeshua/Jesus Christ for us. The works we do now are for the Kingdom of God and we will be rewarded for these works - these works will be judged and we will reap accordingly in the Kingdom of God but, we will NEVER lose our salvation.

The gospel you're preaching is twisted. I pray with our hearts we believe and love the Truth and do not follow after man made doctrine that leads us into works for maintaining salvation.

After we are saved, the Word of God and the Holy Spirit of God lead us into works for the Kingdom of God, NOT works for salvation.

You will understand scripture correctly when you accept that "saved" is not always a reference to spiritual salvation.

Context and always starting from the point of eternal security...... by grace through faith in the completed work of Christ Jesus, is the only way to rightly divide.

^ I agree, UnderGrace.

I could address a number of the other verses you listed, but will stick to just one (otherwise this post could be way longer than it already will be ).

I made a post some time back, on this particular passage, so I will simply repost here:


[quoting excerpts from that post]

Regarding Philippians 3:8-14 [keeping its context of "the Christlike MIND" in the section of Scripture bracketed by 2:2,3,5 on one end, and 3:15,16,19 on the other end (re: 'mind/minded')]:

..."all of us who are mature should take such a view of things. And if on some point you think differently, that too God will make clear to you.Only let us live up to what we have already attained. Philippians 3:15-16

[quoting from Sir Robert Anderson's book "Forgotten Truths"]

"Appendix 4 - Philippians 3:8-14 [for CONTEXT]

"PHILIPPIANS 3:8-141 NOTE CHAPTER 7

"IF the commonly received exegesis of Philippians 3:8-14 be correct, we are faced by the astounding fact that the author of the Epistle to the Romans and of the 15th chapter of 1 Corinthians -- the Apostle who was in a peculiar sense entrusted with the supreme revelation of grace -- announced when nearing the close of his ministry that the resurrection was not, as he had been used to teach, a blessing which Divine grace assured to all believers in Christ, but a prize to be won by the sustained efforts of a life of wholly exceptional saintship.
"Nor is this all. In the same Epistle he has already said, "To me to live is Christ, and to have died is gain"; whereas, ex hypothesi, it now appears that his chief aim in life was to earn a right to the resurrection; and that death, instead of bringing gain, would have cut him off before he had reached the standard of saintship needed to secure that prize! For his words are explicit, "not as though I had already attained."

[...<snip>...]

" "Our citizenship is in heaven" here is the clew to the teaching of the whole passage. The truth to which his words refer is more clearly stated in Ephesians 2:6 - God has "quickened us together with Christ, and raised us up with Him, and made us sit with Him in the heavenly places in Christ." More clearly still is it given in Colossians 3:1-3: "If then ye were raised together with Christ, seek the things that are above, where Christ is seated on the right hand of God. Set your mind on the things that are above, not on the things that are on earth. For ye died, and your life is hid with Christ in God."
"Ephesians and Colossians, be it remembered, were written at the same period of his ministry as Philippians; and in the light of these Scriptures we can read this chapter aright. To "win Christ" (ver. 8), or to apprehend, or lay hold of, that for which he had been laid hold of, or apprehended (ver. 12); or in other words, to realize practically in his life on earth what was true of him doctrinally as to his standing before God in heaven -- this is what he was reaching toward, and what, he says, he had not "already attained."

[...<snip>...]

"One word more. If the Apostle Paul, after such a life of saintship and service, was in doubt as to his part in the resurrection, no one of us, unless he be the proudest of Pharisees or the blindest of fools, will dream of attaining it. In fact we shall dismiss the subject from our minds."

--Sir Robert Anderson, Forgotten Truths, Appendix 4, pgs 145-147

http://articles.ochristian.com/article12455.shtml [more at link]

[end quoting Sir Rob't Anderson; bold, underline, and brackets mine]

____________

So, Philippians 3:8-14 (esp vv.11-14,15) is referring to (as he says), "to realize practically in his life on earth what was true of him doctrinally as to his standing before God in heaven"... (that is, "in the here and now")

[end quoting the excerpts from that post]