Not By Works

And God deals with both according to His will... if they are saved they are saved.

I will indeed!

I have read enough post by @dcontroversal to not know better >>>

As I understand it, apostasy is when a Christian leaves the true way, but still thinks they are on it.

What about the following people described by this verse in ROMANS

But to the one that does not WORK, but BELIEVES on him that justifies the ungodly HIS FAITH is credited as RIGHTEOUS

Who produces the fruit...US or CHRIST?

Does the ROOT produce the FRUIT or the BRANCHES?

The root "JESUS" produces the FRUIT, the branches "SAVED" but bear the fruit that HE produces in us as a LIVING sacrifice...

ALL glory goes to GOD....NONE to US!

Or a professing Christian?

Like I said, WE conservative evangelical do not agree with all the points of the Calvinist TULIP. So here is my personal objections:

Basically, Calvinism is known by an acronym: T.U.L.I.P.

These five categories do not comprise Calvinism in totality. They simply represent some of its main points.

Here are the TWO that I disagree with and why?

Unconditional Election:
God does not base His election on anything He sees in the individual. He chooses the elect according to the kind intention of His will (Eph. 1:4-8; Rom. 9:11) without any consideration of merit within the individual. Nor does God look into the future to see who would pick Him. Also, as some are elected into salvation, others are not (Rom. 9:15, 21).

Limited Atonement:
Jesus died only for the elect. Though Jesus’ sacrifice was sufficient for all, it was not efficacious for all. Jesus only bore the sins of the elect. Support for this position is drawn from such scriptures as Matt. 26:28 where Jesus died for ‘many'; John 10:11, 15 which say that Jesus died for the sheep (not the goats, per Matt. 25:32-33); John 17:9 where Jesus in prayer interceded for the ones given Him, not those of the entire world; Acts 20:28 and Eph. 5:25-27 which state that the Church was purchased by Christ, not all people; and Isaiah 53:12 which is a prophecy of Jesus’ crucifixion where he would bore the sins of many (not all).

In the section on Unconditional Election, I object to the idea that GOD chooses us without regard of our choice, and their statement:
Nor does God look into the future to see who would pick Him. Their concept of God randomly choosing without regard of us Choosing whom we will Serve, not only disregards the following verse, but also makes the STATEMENT that Joshua said, totally irrelevant.

Joshua 24:14-16 (NKJV)
14 "Now therefore, fear the LORD, serve Him in sincerity and in truth, and put away the gods which your fathers served on the other side of the River and in Egypt. Serve the LORD!
15 And if it seems evil to you to serve the LORD, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD."
16 So the people answered and said: "Far be it from us that we should forsake the LORD to serve other gods;

And it contradicts these VERSES in in Romans say:

Romans 10:8-10 (NASB)
8 But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART"—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching,
9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

The other issue is their insistance that GOD does not look down thru time, to see who might choose HIM; HOW DO THEY KNOW? Besides I personally have a POSSIBILITY that I think it is entirely Possible, so hold on to your hat. I DO NOT THINK YOU HAVE HEARD THIS THEORY BEFORE: HE CALLS HIMSELF THEE I AM! Not the I Was, I AM, I Will Be. I AM is His NAME that HE told Moses to Tell the People. I think that is a REFERENCE that GOD EXISTS OUT SIDE OF TIME ITSELF, and in fact HE IS THE CREATOR OF TIME as we know it to be. It says HE declares the END FROM THE BEGINNING, BECAUSE HE IS ALREADY SIMULTANEOUSLY EXISTS in EVERY TIME FRAME THAT WE TRAVEL THROUGH. HE is not a created being traveling Through time as we Know it. HE IS THE I AM! IF TIME IS ONLY FOR US BEINGS INSIDE OF IT, WHAT CONSTITUTES TIME FOR AN ETERNAL, ALL POWERFUL BEING, SUCH AS GOD. He can write our names in the book of life before the foundation of the earth, because HE is present at each and every believer's conversion, all at the same instant as went HE wrote our names in the book of life. Omnipresent does not ONLY REFER TO EVERY SQUARE INCH OF THE UNIVERSE AND HEAVEN AT THE SAME TIME, I THINK IT REFERS TO EVERY SECOND OF TIME SIMULTANEOUSLY, and LITERALLY. Now think about that theory, and watch how much bigger GOD really is to you personally, and how TOTALLY WE THEN WE CAN ASSUME HE ACTUALLY IS. GOD IS ALL POWERFUL, HE IS ALL KNOWING, HE IS THE CREATOR OF TIME ITSELF, HE THE ONE THAT NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR HIM, Etc., Etc., Etc. That is my personal Theory, but it KEEPS me in AWE of GOD.

Limited Atonement: is another one of the Five Points of Calvinism that I do not think they are Absolutely Correct. However not as much as Unconditional Election. In Limited Atonement, they made the FIRST COMMENT, that I think it is totally in Error, which is: Jesus died only for the elect. That statement Contradicts what HE has said in the BIBLE.

1 John 2:2 (NIV)
2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.


That means the ONLY SIN THAT WAS NOT PAID FOR ON THE CROSS IS "BLASPHEMING THE HOLY SPIRIT" My understanding of what is Blaspheming the Holy Spirit" actually is, to Blaspheme HIS work of Getting us to Believe our Sins were bought and paid for on the CROSS, THUS THOSE PEOPLE ARE IN UNBELIEF. And Yes it says to those who came to the conclusion that HE did those miracles by the power of Devil, they had that SAME KIND OF UNBELIEF. Therefore UNBELIEF is blaspheming the Holy Spirit, because it is the Holy Spirit who empowers us to BELIEVE. Every other SIN was Paid for on the CROSS of JESUS. Therefore I believe that the ONLY SIN Not Paid for on the CROSS is UNBELIEF. However, some people think that Head Knowledge is enough to be SAVED, but the Bible says in Rom. 10:8-10 above, IT MUST BE HEART (Human Spirit) Knowledge.

Yes I agree with this....this is how we are saved-by faith in Him.

True. Apostasy is also addressed in 1 Timothy 4 starting in verse 1

Yep...and still directed at believers that stand off or apart from the truth which is what the word means......

Those that give heed to false doctrines are standing off or apart from the truth

MOST so called believers have embraced an embellished salvation which is false and not biblical

A professing Christian could be faithful or apostate (have left the true way), as I understand. I'm not sure I know what you mean by this question...

Christ produces the fruit in us, but we do yield to Christ...we pray, we read the Word, we walk in the Spirit...and we see the fruit of His Spirit in us.
He is the true Vine, we are the branches-He tells us to remain in Him, we cannot bear fruit without doing so👌

Yep...and still directed at believers that stand off or apart from the truth which is what the word means......

Those that give heed to false doctrines are standing off or apart from the truth

MOST so called believers have embraced an embellished salvation which is false and not biblical

But is it referring to them as believers?

The context is false teachers standing off from the truth peddling the lies found in verse 3 with a direct contradiction between them and THOSE which believe and KNOW the truth.

In 1 Tim if some fall away from the faith then...

Yep...and still directed at believers that stand off or apart from the truth which is what the word means......

Those that give heed to false doctrines are standing off or apart from the truth

MOST so called believers have embraced an embellished salvation which is false and not biblical

I predict Limited Atonement and irresistible grace are the ones you don’t agree with.

Christ produces the fruit in us, but we do yield to Christ...we pray, we read the Word, we walk in the Spirit...and we see the fruit of His Spirit in us.


He is the true Vine, we are the branches-He tells us to remain in Him, we cannot bear fruit without doing so👌

If a person worries about losing salvation then I suggest they have not lost it.

If they leave the faith as you suggest then they would not worry because they have lost nothing.

A lot of believers are trusting in Jesus yet are so worried they will lose their salvation.
Why do you think that is?

What would you say to a person who expressed this to you?