So, What Do You Do For A Living?

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Nov 17, 2019
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New Mexico, USA
#1
A new town, a new church

Danny and his wife Mia had just moved from a large city to a small, affluent suburban town. Danny had just received a promotion to warehouse manager, but agreed to move to a new city and state in order to accept the job. Mia acquiesced to the idea of finishing her teaching degree at a new university. Both her and Danny were Christians and grew up together in the church.

They decided one Sunday to visit a well-known church in their new town. Everything was pristine. The building was well maintained. The parking lot had no oil stains. The carpets were spotless. The prayer request cards were stacked perfectly in a little pouch behind each chair. The worship team had their microphones and instruments perfectly polished. The people in the congregation were well dressed, with not one hair out of place. It was truly an establishment created for YouTube!

So Danny, what is it you do?

After the service, one of the elders introduced himself to the young couple. He asked them if they would like to meet the pastor (as if that would have been one of the greatest privileges of their lives). Danny agreed and they made their way to the front of the sanctuary. The pastor was sitting on the stage with an entourage of elders standing around him; not unlike a king’s court sprinkled with jesters seeking despotic approval.

When Danny and Mia were introduced, the first words out of the mouth of the pastor were, “So Danny, what is it you do for a living?” Not only was the question offensive to Danny, but it was downright tacky and elitist. Whenever someone (especially a pastor) asks such an insensitive question, it leaves the recipient uneasy and defensive. There is just no good answer short of “BRAIN SURGEON.”

The members were not much better at edification

After narrowly escaping the pastor’s full-blown interrogation-- complete with FBI investigation, fingerprints and a credit report-- the wary couple made their way back to the coffee and donuts. There they found a perfectly manicured, middle-aged woman scarfing down a custard filled eclair. After she introduced herself, she asked, “So what do you do, Danny?” He politely explained all over again about what now seemed in his mind a very meaningless job. Midway into his second sentence, the lady posed the same question to Mia. Danny’s young wife politely justified her college career and what her future plans were going forward. The older lady feigned excitement as she bragged about her own daughter finishing medical school. It was all they heard about for the next fifteen minutes.

Jesus thwarting the money-changers didn't do much good

Just as they were getting ready to make their escape, Danny’s new co-worker caught him. “Hey, man!” The husky warehouse worker was really the only friendly face he saw that day. “I heard the boss is already at your throat,” he continued in excitement. “Listen, in order to get on his good side you have to get those PDS reports in on time. He doesn’t really like it when the numbers aren’t in on his desk right when he wants em. The only way to get your bonus is to play the game, man. If you ask me he’s a real @#$%!. ..” And so the conversation continued ad nauseam.

Unfortunately, this scenario plays out every Sunday in most churches. Our preoccupation with money and status in the U.S. has crept into the lives of Christ followers; even into our “ holy sanctuaries!” In the next post, I will attempt to shine a light on how the Apostle Paul conversed with the early churches at Corinth, Galatia, Philippi, and Colosse; and how he used God’s words to build up and edify, instead of tear down and humiliate.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,177
113
#2
the US is a shrine to capitalism. Sorry USAers. But that is what you get when you live in a meritocracy.
They will ask you what you do and then maybe ask how much your bank balance is if they dare. If its unpaid work then it just doesnt even count.

In other countries they will judge you in what class, or caste you are. or whether you are native or immigrant. or single or married. or how tall or short you are.

Nobody seems to see people the way God sees people, who does not look on outward appearance, but the heart.
 
Nov 17, 2019
366
201
43
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New Mexico, USA
#3
the US is a shrine to capitalism.
I am actually for capitalism. It beats the socialist alternative, which by the way, history has proven does not work. The U.S. is the world's best economy for a reason. To have the third largest population in the world coupled with the sixth highest income per capita speaks volumes about our democracy; it is an absolute miracle from God!

But that is what you get when you live in a meritocracy.
I don't even mind a meritocracy, either. I am happy when they tell me I can't win a trophy unless I'm the best athlete. I am happy that the hospital won't allow people to perform brain surgery unless they went to school. This may surprise you, but I am also grateful for pastors who took the time to get their PhD's in Theology.

My point is, I do not think those two ideals, capitalism and meritocracy, belong in the church. I think that's been my point all along. What I am asking the current church hierarchy to do is by all measure impossible. I want the church to go back to being a benevolent body of believers, not only giving out of our modern excesses to feed the poor, but to give of our time and talents. And for too many extremely right-leaning U.S. pastors, that invariably smacks of communism.

I could write a whole book on the subject (maybe I will), but for now, please don't mistake my desire for the church to go back to the vision Jesus had for it as a covetousness for government-run socialism. On the other hand, if the churches in America stay on their current trajectory, that's exactly what will happen.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,177
113
#4
Please write the book anyway.
It is interesting to hear from americans who actually dont think their country is the greatest in the entire universe, I have always thought that was a bit of hyperbole and spin americans put out to everyone else.

Prosperity gospel did come from america. Its a very peculiar brand of christianity.

dont worry, there are still christians that believe in the gospel and defend the faith once delivered to the saints. Dont be sucked into the hype that theres a new improved formula with fancy packaging that says you too can be as rich as Judas was.
 
Feb 28, 2016
11,311
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113
#5
We serve God and Keep His Commandments, for this is the 'whole duty of man'...
 
Nov 17, 2019
366
201
43
60
New Mexico, USA
#6
It is interesting to hear from americans who actually dont think their country is the greatest in the entire universe, I have always thought that was a bit of hyperbole and spin americans put out to everyone else.
I do love the United States of America. After all, it has been my home for over 56 years! And I'm sure you love your country too; as you should.

Prosperity gospel did come from america. Its a very peculiar brand of christianity.
Yeah, I agree. However, I don't think we can wrap it all up in such a neat little package. The dynamics of the problem are complex, at best. We just have to rely on God's word.

Speaking of the prosperity gospel movement, you may find interesting this post I wrote a few weeks ago:

https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/the-300-million-church.188909/
 
M

morefaithrequired

Guest
#7
who me? i scrub toilet bowls. someone's gotta do it.
 
M

morefaithrequired

Guest
#8
Politics and religion are inseparable it seems. Especially in America.
 
Feb 28, 2016
11,311
2,972
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#9
religion IS politics in every country of the world, an not especially in America...
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,177
113
#10
yes well, home is home.
If I didnt love my country, I probably would have left for greener pastures ages ago. I cant understand why Kiwis would want to leave to go live in Australia lol.

Our national anthem asks God to defend our country so we dont have to go to war lol.
 

ArtsieSteph

Senior Member
Apr 1, 2014
6,194
1,319
113
33
Arizona
#11
Currently I myself and working for a non profit as an intake specialist. I help siphon calls and inquiries about getting into the program, which is to help families (specifically with minor children) deal with homelessness. It’s a bit exhausting mentally at times, but God has led me to it so I know it’s for His will.
 
Nov 17, 2019
366
201
43
60
New Mexico, USA
#12
Currently I myself and working for a non profit as an intake specialist. I help siphon calls and inquiries about getting into the program, which is to help families (specifically with minor children) deal with homelessness. It’s a bit exhausting mentally at times, but God has led me to it so I know it’s for His will.
I am very proud of you, sister. Keep up the good work.
 
L

Locoponydirtman

Guest
#13
I don't call this living.
It's slowly dying
 
Nov 30, 2019
26
45
13
New England
#14
Currently, I'm employed as a paraeducator in a low-income elementary school. I work mainly with young children who've experienced trauma from abuse, homelessness, their parents' opiate addictions, and poverty. These children are violent, disrespectful, and challenging to say the least. However, the reward I feel when one of these kids "get it" is well worth the hard work and tears I've shed for them. I'm also going for my Bachelor's degree in Elementary Education in order to obtain my teaching license.
 

KhedetOrthos

Active member
Dec 13, 2019
284
158
43
#15
A new town, a new church

Danny and his wife Mia had just moved from a large city to a small, affluent suburban town. Danny had just received a promotion to warehouse manager, but agreed to move to a new city and state in order to accept the job. Mia acquiesced to the idea of finishing her teaching degree at a new university. Both her and Danny were Christians and grew up together in the church.

They decided one Sunday to visit a well-known church in their new town. Everything was pristine. The building was well maintained. The parking lot had no oil stains. The carpets were spotless. The prayer request cards were stacked perfectly in a little pouch behind each chair. The worship team had their microphones and instruments perfectly polished. The people in the congregation were well dressed, with not one hair out of place. It was truly an establishment created for YouTube!

So Danny, what is it you do?

After the service, one of the elders introduced himself to the young couple. He asked them if they would like to meet the pastor (as if that would have been one of the greatest privileges of their lives). Danny agreed and they made their way to the front of the sanctuary. The pastor was sitting on the stage with an entourage of elders standing around him; not unlike a king’s court sprinkled with jesters seeking despotic approval.

When Danny and Mia were introduced, the first words out of the mouth of the pastor were, “So Danny, what is it you do for a living?” Not only was the question offensive to Danny, but it was downright tacky and elitist. Whenever someone (especially a pastor) asks such an insensitive question, it leaves the recipient uneasy and defensive. There is just no good answer short of “BRAIN SURGEON.”
.
If you were to have a chat with that church‘s banker, you might find out just how millions of dollars in debt many such churches are. Which then accounts for the question. It also accounts for a lot of other things, the style of worship music, the way certain inconvenient verses are skipped over. Churches like this often run as a business complete with franchises at various locations around town (campuses).
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
41,320
16,306
113
69
Tennessee
#16
yes well, home is home.
If I didnt love my country, I probably would have left for greener pastures ages ago. I cant understand why Kiwis would want to leave to go live in Australia lol.

Our national anthem asks God to defend our country so we dont have to go to war lol.
In such an event such as war God will provide the warriors to defend NZ. Most of them will be wearing a US flag shoulder patch and carrying an M16 automatic rifle. There will be boots on the ground.
 
Nov 17, 2019
366
201
43
60
New Mexico, USA
#17
If you were to have a chat with that church‘s banker, you might find out just how millions of dollars in debt many such churches are. Which then accounts for the question. It also accounts for a lot of other things, the style of worship music, the way certain inconvenient verses are skipped over. Churches like this often run as a business complete with franchises at various locations around town (campuses).
I agree. But I would take your argument a step further to suggest that even for the smaller churches, this is too often the norm. For example, you could argue that a church denomination is a type of franchise. I mean no disrespect here. After all, denominations are by far the best solution we have been able to come up with so far in regard to pastoral accountability.

However, as the current church model transitions from one pastor, one building, one hierarchy, the leadership will have to decide if they want to go down with a sinking ship, or join the rest of us in transitioning into the church body Christ envisioned 2000 years ago.