What is your BEST PROOF for a pre-trib Rapture?

What I think you mean by the bold ^ , is that the following took place BEFORE 70ad:

"24a They will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive into all the nations."

...and that that is what you mean by your ^ underlined sentence, above (meaning, that v.24a was "done" BEFORE 70ad)... Am I reading you right?

Here is the correct sequence:

1. Persecution of Christians begins with the stoning of Stephen approx 3 years after the Cross. This persecution, largely at the hands of disbelieving Jews, continues through the reign of Nero (the Beast from the Sea). This event marked the beginning of a great persecution of Christians in Jerusalem. In the words of Eusebius:

First they [the Jews] stoned Stephen to death; then James the son of Zebedee and the brother of John was beheaded; and finally James, the first after our Saviour’s Ascension to be raised to the bishop’s throne there, lost his life in the way described, while the remaining apostles, in constant danger from murderous plots, were driven out of Judaea.

The second wave of persecution broke out in Rome in A.D. 64. At this time some Christians were arrested, “then on their information a very large multitude was convicted.” “At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other. . . .” These Christians who were betrayed by their brethren were draped in animal skins and ripped apart by dogs or crucified in a major public spectacle. And at night, these people were burned as torches to light the streets of Rome. According to church tradition, it was during this massacre that Peter was crucified and Paul, beheaded. This same tradition teaches that nearly all of the disciples were martyred. Matthew was killed by a sword in Ethiopia. Mark was dragged by horses through the streets of Alexandria. Luke was hanged in Greece. Bartholomew was flogged to death. Andrew was crucified. Thomas was stabbed with a spear in India. Jude was pierced with arrows. Matthias was stoned then beheaded, and Barnabas was stoned in Salonica.

“Augustus’ inauguration of an Age of Peace at the Ludi Saeculares in 17 B.C. (Horace Carmen saeculare) was not an empty gesture. In the Roman Empire proper, this period of peace remained comparatively undisturbed until the time of Nero.” During Nero’s reign Rome went to war with the Parthians, there was a war in Britain and various other rebellious disturbances across the empire. All these uprisings and wars immediately preceded the Jewish War.

The Israelites of the first century had largely turned their backs on God. In Matthew 12:39, Jesus calls His contemporaries “a wicked and adulterous generation.” The wickedness predicted in v. 12 and mentioned in Matthew 12:39 is echoed in Josephus’ own words in his history of the Jewish War with Rome: “[N]either did any other city [Jerusalem] ever suffer such miseries, nor did any age ever breed a generation more fruitful in wickedness that this was, from the beginning of the world.”

2. Beginnings of Sorrows starts around 45 AD and continues to 66 AD. During this period, in the 4th year of Caesar Claudius, a great famine broke out throughout the Roman Empire. One example of the earthquakes is the earthquake that struck Laodicea sometime between A.D. 60 and A.D. 64 during the reign of Nero. It is interesting to note that one of the churches addressed by John in the Book of Revelation was a church in this city (Revelation 3:14-22). Prior to A.D. 70 there were also earthquakes in Crete, Smyrna, Miletus, Chios, Samos, Hierapolis, Colossae, Campania, Rome and Judea.

3. In the middle of Iyyar of A.D. 66, the Procurator Gessius Florus entered the holy city with the Roman army and killed 3,600 people in the Upper Marketplace of Jerusalem. This slaughter occurred just a couple days before the miraculous army was seen in the clouds on the 21st of Iyyar of A.D. 66. The next occasion was during the Feast of Tabernacles of A.D. 66 when Cestius briefly besieged Jerusalem with the 12th Legion before mysteriously departing shortly thereafter. The final time in which the Roman army surrounded Jerusalem during the Jewish War was in A.D. 70 just before the fall of the city under Caesar Titus.

^ Okay, what I am asking is, when do you believe the following [events in this] sentence took place?:

"24a They will fall by the edge of the sword and be led [/led away] captive into all the nations."






[what *I* am saying is that the SEQUENCE/CHRONOLOGY of several passages ALIGN with what *I* have been saying... 1) Matt22:7-8, where v.7 is the 70ad events, parallel to Lk21:23,20 and parallel with Jesus' words on Palm Sun [/end of the 69 Wks total], in Lk19:42-44; 2)____ (events that come AFTER that [not going into that here])]

Here's how I see the bold ^ :

G1357 diorthosis - (per Heb9:10)

"2. of acts and institutions, reformation: καιρός διορθώσεως a season of reformation, or the perfecting of things, referring to the times of the Messiah, Hebrews 9:10."

[and]

"From a compound of dia and a derivative of orthos, meaning to straighten thoroughly; rectification, i.e. (specially) the Messianic restauration -- reformation."

[by "restauration," I think is meant "restoration" like as we see in Acts 3:21 "Whom heaven must receive UNTIL the times of the restoration OF ALL THINGS OF WHICH GOD SPAKE BY the mouths of His holy prophets from the age [meaning, the OT prophets and their prophecies, esp. pertaining to their promised AND PROPHESIED *EARTHLY* Millennial Kingdom]"--"the Messianic restauration/restoration," whereas the Dan9:26a prophecy has His "rejection/trials/Cross" taking place "And AFTER 62 Weeks [69 Wks total/completed on Palm Sunday] shall Messiah BE CUT OFF and HAVE NOTHING"... which is what Peter is making a point to say, in Acts 3; that they had overlooked/bypassed His "Suffering Servant" aspects [prophecies concerning His first advent, as being SEPARATE to the others concerning His "conquering KING" aspects they DID see], thus themselves having a hand in fulfilling those very things! (His "rejection"/"arrest"/"trials"/"death on the Cross" [which came "AFTER" the 62 Wks/69 Wks total--not that this is the sum total of the "70 Weeks prophecy" all told! ("KING" is used only 2x in all of the epistles, and BOTH are "FUTURE," for example... Just like Rev19:15b says "SHALL shepherd [the nations]" yet future to THAT point in the chronology, even!)])]

As I see it, the passage states, "the first tabernacle [the one in the wilderness, per context] yet having A STANDING [G4714 - stasin/stasis]; Which is a parable FOR THE PRESENT TIME"... I already made posts on this, so won't go into that here.

Exactly its what reformations do. Restore the government of God as promised in Joel. Sending prophets from all nations of the world men, like Samson and women like, Deborah alike. . two by two to represent the witness of God.

God had given over the pagan Jews that gathered themselves together to oppose the faith of the Bible. They wanted nothing to do with Bible thumpers like Samael . They walked by sight as in out of sight out of mind. . In their jealousy of the surrounding pagan nation .They revealed their unbelief. They would not follow after a invisible King with a hidden glory . But demanded that God give them a king to glory in his flesh like the pagan kingdoms of this world. God removed that abomination of desolation which is a created thing standing in the unseen holy place of faith as a idol image .Therefore revealing the wrath of God.

Third temple???

We are the earthen temple.

In the new heaven and earth God is the temple of His bride Christ our husband our stronghold redeemer .

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

This began from 66 AD and continued until the final fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD. Once Jerusalem was surrounded people would sneak out of the city. During the early days of the War many were able to escape. Some went back to Egypt, others fled to modern day Jordan and throughout the empire.

However, after the siege of Titus, this verse became more obvious. Many Jews who escaped were sold into slavery and taken to Egypt, back from whence they once came. The vast majority will killed by the sword of their brethren but after Titus broke through and destroyed the temple, he captured 96,000 Jews, the rest he ordered to be killed. Which they were, by the sword. The 96,000 were led away back to Rome. 15,000 were killed along the way.

I would offer. The first tabernacle was designed as mobil or temporal to represent the movement of God people it ended in Judges when the pagan Jews who had become jealous of the surrounding Pagan nations demanded one made with human hands as a way of glorying in the flesh the things seen the temporal. . Today we are considered that temple as believers . God moving us with the gospel. . our new born again tongue.

The stone as hewn with human hands temple came in opposition it depended on a law that they Jews broke after David.. The last to sit on the throne in that way . David, God's choice. Not Saul the choice of the unbelieving Jew.

The tabernacle in the wilderness was used as a parable for the time of movement in the wilderness. The time of testing 40. The Tabernacle rested in the promised land at Shiloh where the land was portioned between the tribes need to spread out the as gospel seed. I think you could say Shiloh meaning the peaceful city denotes its founder the Messiah, "the peaceful one, the prince of the peace " of that city of Zion the residents of that city are named by God, Christians. The new name he named his bride in Acts . It would seems the word in Genesis 49 signifies as a parallel we are the temple dispersed to different kingdoms or sects as a government bringing the gospel seed. .

Judah, thou art he whom thy brethren shall praise: thy hand shall be in the neck of thine enemies; thy father's children shall bow down before thee.Judah is a lion's whelp: from the prey, my son, thou art gone up: he stooped down, he couched as a lion, and as an old lion; who shall rouse him up? The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be. Binding his foal unto the vine, and his ass's colt unto the choice vine; he washed his garments in wine, and his clothes in the blood of grapes: His eyes shall be red with wine, and his teeth white with milk.Zebulun shall dwell at the haven of the sea; and he shall be for an haven of ships; and his border shall be unto Zidon. Genesis 49: 8- 13

It would appear the reformation came nearly 2000 years ago.

It would represent the sign of the times. . . things continuing as before. . . wars and rumors of wars just like today kingdoms falling and other building up . No sign was given as to the day hour month or year. He will come on the last day as a thief in the night just as in the days of Noah. We walk by faith the unseen not by sight after the temporal.

The reformation came when Jesus said "it is finished" And of his own volition offered up the suffering of his spirit life to the father and the father kept his corruptible body from dying for three days to do what letter of the law could not do. .

The "law of faith as a labor of Christ love" working with the letter the judgement ...together as one made the law perfect as the gospel Appeasing the wrath of the law. .

It was the last day of Jerusalem and Israel in focus. There is nothing dealing with our time. No modern technology, no Hitler. Nothing from our age is in focus.

I am so glad that I will not be a part of your "chopping-block Rapture". Kind of defeats the whole purpose of the Rapture in the first place (which is to deliver us from that dark hour.)

None of us need to be delivered from 70 AD Jerusalem's dark hour.

I agree No modern technology like electronic "666 chips" , No modern technology, We walk by faith the unseen

All Israel is not born again Israel or the new name he named his bride, Christian denoting resident of the that city named after her husband Christ.

The earthly corrupted Jerusalem represents the heavenly purified as with gold . The city of Christ the bride. The new heavenly Jerusalem or Zion the eternal city.

Not the temporal corrupted according to what the eyes see .

But the beautiful. The city of beautiful feet shod with the gospel of peace. The city Spoken of in Isaiah. Lifting up the bride of Christ in Revelation 12 as the suffering mother of all. The freed woman in Galatians 4 . The virgin bride spoken of as Timothy as a parable under the surrogate mother as Paul working, water the gospel seed traveling in pain birth in hope till Christ is formed in Timothy the virgin bride.

Revelation 12 :1-2 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

Christian the beautiful city the mother of us all.

Galatians 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,

2 Corinthians 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

Isaiah 54:1-3 King James Version (KJV) Sing, O barren, thou that didst not bear; break forth into singing, and cry aloud, thou that didst not travail with child: for more are the children of the desolate than the children of the married wife, saith the Lord. Enlarge the place of thy tent, and let them stretch forth the curtains of thine habitations: spare not, lengthen thy cords, and strengthen thy stakes;For thou shalt break forth on the right hand and on the left; and thy seed shall inherit the Gentiles, and make the desolate cities to be inhabited.

Isaiah 62:5 For as a young man marrieth a virgin, so shall thy sons marry thee: and as the bridegroom rejoiceth over the bride, so shall thy God rejoice over thee.

The gospel revealed in parables with respect of his new kingdom of priest after manner of Melchedik representing Jesus from the tribe of Judah as the prince of peace the one with government on his shoulder our Emanuel. Our High Priest continually without beginning of spirit life or end thereof.as the Son of God not seen A new kingdom of priest as ambassadors sent from a foreign land according to the promise of Joel. In those parables he concealed it from natural man that has no faith to mix in what is heard and they do not hear the good news .

I would offer a parable called a proverb as a certain kind of parable as moral sayings. This is unlike parables that hold a literal historical accurate view as well as used as a parable using the signified tongue of God as prophecy to reveal the mysteries of faith again not hidden from the new priesthood .

Proverbs 251-3 These are also proverbs of Solomon, which the men of Hezekiah king of Judah copied out. It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.The heaven for height, and the earth for depth, and the heart of kings is unsearchable.

Unsearchable as in wicked beyond repair as it who could know it .Accusing one self one moment, and the next excusing .Natural man..... no faith need to see the eternal one .

I think we have been delivered from that dark hour .Christ sat in the judgement seat and was declared guilty , a dark place. For three days and nights as a living sacrifice.. No condemnation to those in Christ. No double jeopardy .The "belly of the Whale" as three days. Same three days as the other witness signified as "in the heart of a corrupted earth"..... once. The last day ,the day we receive our new incorruptible bodies. Christ our husband . . the head . . . . .our loving authority .

Nope that is indirect.
Deliverance is TO heaven,TO the groom.
It is like saying the ONLY point of Noah's trip up into the sky was to escape the flood.

Purpose. It goes to purpose.

And btw we see your loose termed principle in the word multiple times.

Those worthy vs not worthy.

What you mock is from heaven. It is in the bible,and you should embrace it,not mock it.

Crowns,for instance,go ONLY to those worthy ones.

Is that also mocked?

Yes because that was not the gt.

Show us the judgements of the gt that have already been fulfilled.

Historicist views are a grand canyon man made leap.

The events of 70 AD Jerusalem indeed was the great tribulation of Mat 24:21. Everything Jesus mentions happened. Mat 24 agrees with Dan 12. All things have been fulfilled. There is no world-wide tribulation mentioned. If the GT was a global event, how do we escape it by fleeing to the mountains of Judea?

1. The temple was destroyed.
2. Not one stone of Jerusalem was left standing.
3. There were wars and rumors of wars from 64-70 AD.
4. There were many false prophets claiming to be Messiah.
5. There were famines and many earthquakes.
6. The disciples were persecuted and killed.
7. The gospel was preached throughout the known world (i.e. Roman Empire)
8. Israel suffered the worst tribulation of any nation in history.
9. Nursing mothers ate their babies.
10. False prophets were used to deceive the people into staying inside the city.
11. A massive supernatural storm occurred darkening all celestial lights.
12. The sign of the Son of Man appeared. 6 of them.
13. This all happened to that generation.

What are we missing???

The Parable of the fig tree-not to happen for another 1900 plus years
SO, THERE HAS NEVER BEEN A "LAST GENERATION". LIKE THERE IS NOW.
Matthew 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree, When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh
Matthew 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

For sure future to then because
Satan was never kicked out of heaven.
Neither were there any fallen angels as in the days of Noah.
Neither was there a return of Christ or the New Age commenced, etc.


Ecclesiastes 1:9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done and there is no new thing under the sun.
Ecclesiastes 1:10 Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us.
(and if anyone could understand this, the rest of this would be easy)


this for sure has to come.
Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Daniel 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

Daniel 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.


That God gives us EXAMPLES of what is to COME in this, the end generation by what has gone on before, so that we are without excuse.

Our generation is nowhere near as sinful as the one Christ lived during. Christ Himself called them, "perverse" generation. Josephus called them the most wicked the world had ever known.

Wrong. Dan 12 makes clear at this time Michael stood up. Roman historian Tacticus and Josephus both recorded angels in armor fighting in the sky.

70 weeks = 490 years, right? How do you get to add 2,000???

Was Israel left desolate in 70 AD? How was Jerusalem destroyed? Consumed by fire, I think, LOL???

There is nothing left for our future. It was all about Israel.

Were they splicing genes and trying to replicate themselves? Making chemical weapons? Spreading killer viruses? Babies born on crack? Kids killing other kids everyday? People blowing themselves and others up in the middle of cities? Abominations to God made legal? Babies kidnapped sold as sex slaves? Those are just my first few thoughts...


Satan isn't kicked out of Heaven to "dual" in the sky. HE IS COMING TO DECEIVE THE WHOLE WORLD. It won't be a question as to whether a "supernatual" being is HERE ON EARTH WITH US or not. There will never be a time after when it will be questioned by anyone as "EVERY KNEE WILL BOW" when Christ returns for the beginning of the Lords Day.
If you think Satan and his angels were already here, WHERE ARE their progeny, THE GIANTS???


Yes, start there. Lots of prophecy study is needed. 1948. And NEVER before that year could the "last generation" have ever been.
NEVER.

Please describe the nature of what history records as being the sign of the Son of Man, as well as, the rest of what is described in Matthew 24:30-31.