Not By Works

"Your eyes saw my substance, being yet unformed. And in Your book they all were written, The days fashioned for me, When as yet there were none of them."

I assume we are looking at the word "unperfect". In Jeremiah 1:12 we are told that God watches over His word to perform and to do what He says He is going to do. "“for I am watching over My word to accomplish it.” To be perfect means to bear fruit. A tree that is not mature enough to produce fruit does not lack perfection. In Hebrew the word we are looking at is גָּלְמִ֤י. The first letter of this word is Gimel and this represents the camel. We see this when Jesus was born when the wise men brought gifts to Jesus and presented them to Him at the time and place where He was born and entered into this world. The next letter is Lamed and this represents a Staff. God watches over the gifts that He gives us the same way a shepherd watches over a flock of sheep. The next letter Mem represents water. This is the work of the Holy Spirit. We know that living water flows from the Throne of God in Heaven. The final letter is Yud. This letter is little more then the mark the pen makes when it first touches the paper. All of the Hebrew letters start with Yud. This is represented by the Big Bang when all of the Universe stared off smaller then mustard seed. It is at this point where infinity became finite.

So we can look at the Hebrew to understand the meaning of the word translated: "unperfect". Also clearly we are talking about a book here that is written at conception. The word "book" is used 12 times in Revelation. I am sure this is one of the books that we read about in Johns letter to the churches. 12 is a powerful number. There are 12 tribes of Israel, 12 months in a year, 12 hours in a day, 12 gates, 12 minor prophets and so on.

Deuteronomy 21
15 “If a man has two wives, one loved and the other [b]unloved, and both the loved and the unloved have born him sons, and the firstborn son belongs to the unloved wife, 16 then on the day when he wills his possessions to his sons, he cannot treat the son of his loved wife as firstborn in place of the son of the unloved wife—the [actual] firstborn.

2 Samuel 11
7 Then Nathan said to David, “You are the man! Thus says the Lord God of Israel: ‘I anointed you king over Israel, and I delivered you from the hand of Saul. 8 I gave you your master’s house and your master’s wives into your keeping, and gave you the house of Israel and Judah. And if that had been too little, I also would have given you much more! 9 Why have you despised the commandment of the Lord, to do evil in His sight?

Matthew 5
22 But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother [e]without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, ‘Raca!’[f] shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, [g]‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of [h]hell fire.

Deuteronomy 21
15 “If a man has two wives, one loved and the other [b]unloved, and both the loved and the unloved have born him sons, and the firstborn son belongs to the unloved wife, 16 then on the day when he wills his possessions to his sons, he cannot treat the son of his loved wife as firstborn in place of the son of the unloved wife—the [actual] firstborn.

2 Samuel 11
7 Then Nathan said to David, “You are the man! Thus says the Lord God of Israel: ‘I anointed you king over Israel, and I delivered you from the hand of Saul. 8 I gave you your master’s house and your master’s wives into your keeping, and gave you the house of Israel and Judah. And if that had been too little, I also would have given you much more! 9 Why have you despised the commandment of the Lord, to do evil in His sight?

Matthew 5
22 But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother [e]without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, ‘Raca!’[f] shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, [g]‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of [h]hell fire.

Very sad that the pastor says that.
Even sadder that you were in that church.

What church was it you went to that preached that?

Deuteronomy 21
15 “If a man has two wives, one loved and the other [b]unloved, and both the loved and the unloved have born him sons, and the firstborn son belongs to the unloved wife, 16 then on the day when he wills his possessions to his sons, he cannot treat the son of his loved wife as firstborn in place of the son of the unloved wife—the [actual] firstborn.

2 Samuel 11
7 Then Nathan said to David, “You are the man! Thus says the Lord God of Israel: ‘I anointed you king over Israel, and I delivered you from the hand of Saul. 8 I gave you your master’s house and your master’s wives into your keeping, and gave you the house of Israel and Judah. And if that had been too little, I also would have given you much more! 9 Why have you despised the commandment of the Lord, to do evil in His sight?

Matthew 5
22 But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother [e]without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, ‘Raca!’[f] shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, [g]‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of [h]hell fire.

Praise God you have been largely spared. Unfortunately I haven't. Our family left a church where, amongst other things, the pastor stood on the pulpit and said he could commit murder tomorrow and it would be ok. He was adamantly OSAS and still is. There are extremes in Christianity for certain and we must vehemently guard against the truth being twisted into something false. I think it's important to present a complete message, whether OSAS or NOSAS, and beware not to leave sloppy "loopholes" that confuse new believers. (I'm speaking in general and not referring to you in particular.) This is great training ground for that. God bless you in your walk and may you be filled with the knowledge of His will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding. (Colossians 1:9)

happy new year to everyone. mine will consist of loneliness, soberness and computer sitting. party party.

sober new years are so excit.... ......

Eternal security has no loopholes.

And what he stated is not false..... however one does have to use distorted reasoning to preach grace.

You are free to believe what you want.

Most of US, do believe the Bible is speaking LITERALLY, especially these verses:


1 Thessalonians 4:15-18 (NASB)
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and
so we shall always be with the Lord.
18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

Matthew 25:6 (ESV)
6 But at midnight there was a cry, ‘Here is the bridegroom! Come out to meet him.’


Revelation 19:7-9 (NASB)
7 "Let us rejoice and be glad and give the glory to Him, for the marriage of the Lamb has come and His bride has made herself ready."
8 It was given to her to clothe herself in fine linen, bright and clean; for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.
9 Then he *said to me, "Write, 'Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb.'" And he *said to me,
"These are true words of God."


All your post tells me, is YOU DID NOT GET THE INVITE, that has been written in your heart (human spirit).

Every single event of JEWISH Man choosing His Bride, was fulfilled BY CHRIST before He ascended, and the WEDDING CEREMONY is yet to come. He fulfilled every event, including the Mandatory, "I GO TO PREPARE A PLACE FOR YOU." I am fully confident, HE will fulfill the REST of the WEDDING OF THE LAMB, according to JEWISH TRADITIONS.

I do not like calling it the RAPTURE, because of how false prophets have perverted the meaning of the word Rapture, Raptus in LATIN.

I mean false prophets like Kenneth Copeland, and Harold Camping, etc. Therefore I choose to call it The Calling Out of the Bride.

Almost every single Evangelical Born Again Believer are genuinely believing in the Calling Out of the Bride,

Most of the Baptists are also believing in the Calling Out of the Bride,

An overwhelming part of the Pentecostals and Charismatics also do believe in the Calling Out of the Bride,

And a few other denominations also Believe in it.


I am a Conservative Evangelical type of Christian, and we believe in KEEPING READY FOR HIM.

SO WHAT ARE YOU ? ? ?

If this is the case you better be sinless otherwise, there is probably son sin you are in trouble with

good luck meeting that requirement,

we do not put people under a list based on certain sins, we claim all sinners are in danger apart from grace

ie, stop excusing your sin

THIS TAKES MAINTENANCE! Also, perceived as "WORKS" FOR, or the maintaining OF ones' Salvation!
I reckon, this is what happens when one strains at gnats, when swallowing illusions, eh?

That's WHAT I am!

Everyone, please read this in its entirety before and if you respond to it.

It is not a matter of sinless perfection, it is a matter of walk.

Suppose A man sees a really beautiful woman, and does the proverbial “second look”, a long one, and lusts after her in his heart. He has already committed adultery with her in his heart. The Holy Spirit convicts him. He knows he has sinned. He will either confess and renounce his lustful thoughts or he will continue to indulge, or may even pursue her.

It is not the same matter to look upon a woman with lust and then receive correction, and to do the same and yet. reject correction, and run headlong into the full consumation of the thought. This is the danger of saying “all sin is equal”. Falling into sin for a moment and continuous persistence in sin is not equal

Now a child of God may sin. He may lust. He may indulge in lustful thoughts. He may even act out his lustful thoughts. He may persist in this sin for a season. But he is going to come under severe chastening. He does not lose his salvation, he loses fellowship, he loses peace, he loses assurance, his spiritual life dries up, his bones get broken by the rod of correction, and generally it is a miserable condition

And if a person can live in persistent sin, in a state like this, and be at peace, untroubled, saying it’s ok, I’m saved, God forgives me, and not be grieved by his sin, be at peace with himself, and have no concern whatsoever, ( in other words, if the things listed in the former paragraph just before this one do not occur), that is a very dangerous place, and it is doubtful that person ever knew the Lord.

Now you and DC are being accused of promoting and teaching the possibility of the scenario just described in the last paragraph just before this one. I do not think you are promoting that at all. I think you are promoting that

1. A Christian is not sinless

2. The direction of a believers walk is toward God and away from sin.

3. A believer may lapse for a season from that walk.

4. But God restores that believer through chastisement and other means.

And lastly,

5. There are those who think they are believers, but deceive themselves.

I am a "grace-guy", but even I can see the dangerous possibility of some being lulled and deceived into thinking that the Atonement amounts to a free lifetime supply of RC indulgences. We must remember that it is by their fruits ye shall know them. Perhaps we get the concepts of fruits and works all mish-mash-mangled together?

@PS do you still have room on your heretic train? send me a message. would you say thats one of such instances you talked about in 2 samuel where God says i have given you your master's house and master's wives?

man thats crazy. i had to look it up in my own bible i didnt even believe at first its there, sounds like some ancient viking culture or today's middle-eastern madness of just going in and taking someone elses' wives and of course on God's authority. i cant deal with that verse at all i feel like it would contradict morality so much. what is this

If you’re going to take on the OT, take it all, don’t just pick and choose. And the Matthew verse is to the Jews. It is part of the rules Christ gave them to live by in their earthly kingdom. This is not Church doctrine. Jesus calls people fools. Paul called People fools. Is Jesus and Paul indanger of hell fire?

Matthew 23:17 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?

1 Corinthians 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

Now the Pharisees get a telling off for being false teachers. Best to read in full and a modern translation helps I feel. If there are any false teachers here, then take heed. A single verse can be read any number of ways.

God said it is UNLAWFUL for a man to hav more than one wife. He calls it adultry.

Now I said the things above post 119,651, I said in reference to someone talking about running off with another mans wife. But the things stated above can be applied to any sin.

Lying, cheating your employer, gossip, slander, evil speaking, coveting, pride, self righteousness, etc. in that sense all sin is equally destructive.

But a believer receives correction from the Holy Spirit, and though he may fall, he does not stay down. For God upholds him through gracious means

I’ll stick with the pure words of God as found in the KJV. I understand it quite well. The point is, Jesus called people fools and so did Paul, no denying this.