Not By Works

Discern · Dec 31, 2019

I am a "born from above" spiritual man inside this "shell of flesh", fighting the good fight! Having, by the grace of God, given an opportunity, of warring against "the adversary", which includes the "beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit!"
Fighting "fire with fire", one might say, in using the "same tools", f'rinstance, this thing called internet, in striving to "LESSEN THE VOID" caused by traditions and precepts of men, as opposed to "continually perpetuate" those traditions and precepts. In the "hopes", by my "standing?" That "others", like myself, can "see", they are not alone!

That they don't Have to "knuckle under", the "whack-a-mo" effect traditions and precepts of men have, and are continuing to do TO "the Word of God!" As a "result" of the "famine of the end times!"
Which is, as you SHOULD know is "NOT hearing the "word of God!"

Which, my "target audience", is NOT those who are not believers, who have not accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. But "those" who have! Whose "ears" and "eyes" are STILL "not hearing", and STILL "not seeing" the "word of God" that is "constantly" coming forth FROM God, as He pours out His Spirit onto ALL flesh! (just "like" the parable of the different "types" of ground) NOT from the "mouths of the pulpit!"
But the "word" that comes right in betweenst one's "ears!"
BUT?....THIS TAKES MAINTENANCE! Also, perceived as "WORKS" FOR, or the maintaining OF ones' Salvation!
Meaning, the further one "travels the strait and narrow?" (Heb. 6:1) the MORE "maintenance" is REQUIRED in the "traveling!" Which is "why" there are "so FEW" that "find" it!

The "one" instance Jesus stated, is "the way of the spurious messiah!"
The "other" instance Jesus stated is the "TRUE AND HOLY" way!
(Matthew 7:13&14)

Which is why people like myself are "in shock", when met with such a ferocious resistance, from those "supposed" members of the "body of Christ", from these "other" members of the "body" of Christ, who are "not the SAME part AS themselves!
Frankly Johnny? It's astonishingly sad!

But? I reckon, this is what happens when one strains at gnats, when swallowing illusions, eh?

That's WHAT I am!

I’m not a soul mechanic, so I get my scheduled maintanence from Jesus🙂
He takes good care of us.

Paid in full at the same time my justification was payed for.

Chris1975 · Dec 31, 2019

BillG said:

@Chris1975

You say the following

Not sure if you think I am the person you mentioned above.
I don't think so but just in case.
No, not you in this instance.

I am a person who believes that we repent at conversion.
We repent of the sin the that Holy Spirit came to convict us off.
That sin being the sin of unbelief in Jesus.
That I have stated in this thread.

I think it may be more than just unbelief in Jesus. I believe even the 10 commandments can be used to convict a sinner of the need for a saviour. For example the Ray Comfort method of using the law to show that we are all guilty under the law - this is quite a proven method of drawing people to seeing the need for a saviour. If a sinner can come to realise that they have broken many of the commandments, and that there is a righteous and holy God who will judge men on an appointed day, their eyes may open to the truth. At this point the message of Jesus Christ, and the cross does a wonderful work. So yes they previously are all in a situation of unbelief, but when they trust the message and call upon the Lord, then this faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of the Lord.

The basic of repent/repentance is

repent, change my mind, change the inner man (particularly with reference to acceptance of the will of God), repent.

turning away from our old direction as we turn to Christ.

Proverbs 28v13
He who covers his sins will not prosper,
But whoever confesses and forsakes them will have mercy.

- we find Adam and Eve making themselves fig leaves for covering and hiding in the garden. So too today we have those who believe they can hide their sins from God and others. God says those who cover their sins will not prosper. But to rather Confess and Forsake them. The Forsaking part necessarily is a behavioural change. And a behavioural change is the outcome of a change of mind and heart on the matter. The fruit of repentance.

Look at what Jesus says:

Matthew 3v8
8 Therefore bear fruits worthy of repentance, 9 and do not think to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I say to you that God is able to raise up children to Abraham from these stones. 10 And even now the ax is laid to the root of the trees. Therefore every tree which does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit [a]and fire. 12 His winnowing fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clean out His threshing floor, and gather His wheat into the barn; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”

In some respects we could substitute the word Abraham in this for Jesus and it would be just as applicable to the Church today. John was addressing the Pharisees and Sadducees of the day who were claiming that they were "A-OK" because they had Abraham as their father. They were purporting "Innocence by Association". And so too I suspect is the mindset today in the church of "Innocence By Association". Association with Jesus Christ. The above passage is as clear as daylight that Repentance is part and parcel of the walk with Christ, together with fruit bearing.

At conversion we receive the the Holy Spirit.
It is the Holy Spirit who reveals to us when we sin.
As a result we confess that sin. Agree we got it wrong and ask God for help.

Agreed

Is that how you understand repentance?

Yes, and more so. There will be fruit of repentance as shown above. NOt just a mental assent that what we did was wrong, but a putting to death the misdeeds of the body. This is the evidenciary fruit that the change of mind has occurred. Because we are no longer under total domination of the flesh, because we have the Holy Spirit.

To be perfectly honest I cannot see how to repent implies sinless perfection.

Paul says it best in my opinion in Philippians 3
12 Not that I have already attained,[c] or am already perfected; but I press on, that I may lay hold of that for which Christ Jesus has also laid hold of me. 13 Brethren, I do not count myself to have [d]apprehended; but one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind and reaching forward to those things which are ahead, 14 I press toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.

15 Therefore let us, as many as are mature, have this mind; and if in anything you think otherwise, God will reveal even this to you. 16 Nevertheless, to the degree that we have already [e]attained, let us walk by the same [f]rule, let us be of the same mind.

Because we know that we will not be sinless until we go home (but I have seen a few on here who claim to be sinless, even telling me they never sinned since conversion)
So I believe that Paul implies that even he (who walked so close to the Lord) has not already attained, or is already perfected. But look at his mindset. The follow-on verses above say it all.

So would be interested to know what you mean by repent after conversion.
Pretty much what is written above.

Hi Bill, no I am not alluding to you. Please see responses in Red above.

EleventhHour · Jan 1, 2020

May the Lord Bless and Keep us in this New Year and New Decade

Celebrating in style in chilly.... but beautiful downtown Toronto

Whispered · Jan 1, 2020

EleventhHour said:

And the dawn of a new decade! I visited Toronto once. I thought my hometown in the states got cold in winter! Lordy, not even close to the temps in Toronto.
Stay warm.

dcontroversal · Jan 1, 2020

EleventhHour said:

Nice hahahh

eternally-gratefull · Jan 1, 2020

Discern said:

I understand this

my point was about the eternal consequence of all sin, no matter how small we think it is. Not the perspective of how it affects us here on earth, we see that through the law. As some sins are so damaging to society God demanded a death sentence.

but all the same. The smallest sin you can ever commit, will earn hunger a trip to hell, yet people do not think this is true, they excuse those sins, and think they are ok. because they did not do the “big” sin. This was the problem with the pharisees, if you looked at them they on the outside were the most righteous people on earth, but what did jesus say about them?

thats what legalism does to a person. It stops them from looking in and seeing how evil they really are. And keeps them looking and comparing themselves with people who are worse than them, so they do not have to be confronted with the truth, It’s why they are so judgmental, and why they have no problem slandering others, it’s all about them,

EleventhHour · Jan 1, 2020

Whispered said:

Thanks... my Italian genes have adapted and I have become a hardy Canadian!

Not so cold this week ...3 degrees celcius ...but being right on the Lake Ontario does add a wind chill.

RebuildJesussChurch · Jan 1, 2020

dcontroversal said:

Formerly, my religion ended this statement by Isaiah at the word "wool":
"Come now, let us reason together," says the Lord. "Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be white as snow; though they are red as crimson, they shall be like wool. If you are willing and obedient, you will eat the best from the land; but if you resist and rebel, you will be devoured by the sword." For the mouth of the Lord has spoken. 1:18-20

My religion had also separated Psalm 103:11 from verse 12:
For as high as the heavens are above the earth, so great is His love for those who fear Him; as far as the east is from the west, so far has He removed our transgressions from us.

But now through faith in Jesus Christ, who has accomplished redemption (freedom from captivity by payment of ransom) for His people, his grace transforms us so that we can confess Psalm 101:

"I will sing of Your love and justice; to You, O Lord, I will sing praise. I will be careful to lead a blameless life - when will You come to me? I will walk in my house with blameless heart. I will set before my eyes no vile thing. The deeds of faithless men I hate; they will not cling to me. Men of perverse heart shall be far from me; I will have nothing to do with evil.

Whoever slanders his neighbor in secret, him will I put to silence; whoever has haughty eyes and a proud heart, him will I not endure. My eyes will be on the faithful in the land, that they may dwell with me; he whose walk is blameless will minister to me (Titus 1:7). No one who practices deceit will dwell in my house; no one who speaks falsely will stand in my presence. Morning by morning I will put to silence all the wicked in the land; I will cut off every evildoer from the city of the Lord(1 Cor.5:13; 1 Peter 4:17,18.)"

We have been brought from sin to righteousness; from the soul to the Spirit. We were in Egypt but now we are under God with Christ Jesus as our Head. We live by faith in the understanding that whatever is not from faith is sin. We live on the Word of God desiring it more than our daily bread, abiding in it as disciples of Christ Jesus. We are new creatures and understand that in every nation whoever fears Him and does what is right is accepted by Him. Acts 10:35. The fruit of righteousness is peace; the effect of righteousness is quietness and confidence forever.

May you press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of you in 2020!

Chris1975 · Jan 1, 2020

eternally-gratefull said:

Exodus 2
18 When they came to Reuel[c] their father, he said, “How is it that you have come so soon today?”
19 And they said, “An Egyptian delivered us from the hand of the shepherds, and he also drew enough water for us and watered the flock.”
20 So he said to his daughters, “And where is he? Why is it that you have left the man? Call him, that he may eat bread.”
21 Then Moses was content to live with the man, and he gave Zipporah his daughter to Moses.

Numbers 12 (years later)
12 Then Miriam and Aaron [a]spoke against Moses because of the [b]Ethiopian woman whom he had married; for he had married an Ethiopian woman. 2 So they said, “Has the Lord indeed spoken only through Moses? Has He not spoken through us also?” And the Lord heard it. 3 (Now the man Moses was very humble, more than all men who were on the face of the earth.)
4 Suddenly the Lord said to Moses, Aaron, and Miriam, “Come out, you three, to the tabernacle of meeting!” So the three came out. 5 Then the Lord came down in the pillar of cloud and stood in the door of the tabernacle, and called Aaron and Miriam. And they both went forward. 6 Then He said,

“Hear now My words:
If there is a prophet among you,
I, the Lord, make Myself known to him in a vision;
I speak to him in a dream.
7 Not so with My servant Moses;
He is faithful in all My house.
8 I speak with him face to face,
Even plainly,[c] and not in [d]dark sayings;
And he sees the form of the Lord.
Why then were you not afraid
To speak against My servant Moses?”

9 So the anger of the Lord was aroused against them, and He departed. 10 And when the cloud departed from above the tabernacle, suddenly Miriam became leprous, as white as snow. Then Aaron turned toward Miriam, and there she was, a leper. 11 So Aaron said to Moses, “Oh, my lord! Please do not lay [e]this sin on us, in which we have done foolishly and in which we have sinned.

>So was it unlawful for Moses to have a second wife?

EleventhHour · Jan 1, 2020

Chris1975 said:

Exodus 2
18 When they came to Reuel[c] their father, he said, “How is it that you have come so soon today?”
19 And they said, “An Egyptian delivered us from the hand of the shepherds, and he also drew enough water for us and watered the flock.”
20 So he said to his daughters, “And where is he? Why is it that you have left the man? Call him, that he may eat bread.”
21 Then Moses was content to live with the man, and he gave Zipporah his daughter to Moses.

Numbers 12 (years later)
12 Then Miriam and Aaron [a]spoke against Moses because of the [b]Ethiopian woman whom he had married; for he had married an Ethiopian woman. 2 So they said, “Has the Lord indeed spoken only through Moses? Has He not spoken through us also?” And the Lord heard it. 3 (Now the man Moses was very humble, more than all men who were on the face of the earth.)
4 Suddenly the Lord said to Moses, Aaron, and Miriam, “Come out, you three, to the tabernacle of meeting!” So the three came out. 5 Then the Lord came down in the pillar of cloud and stood in the door of the tabernacle, and called Aaron and Miriam. And they both went forward. 6 Then He said,

“Hear now My words:
If there is a prophet among you,
I, the Lord, make Myself known to him in a vision;
I speak to him in a dream.
7 Not so with My servant Moses;
He is faithful in all My house.
8 I speak with him face to face,
Even plainly,[c] and not in [d]dark sayings;
And he sees the form of the Lord.
Why then were you not afraid
To speak against My servant Moses?”

9 So the anger of the Lord was aroused against them, and He departed. 10 And when the cloud departed from above the tabernacle, suddenly Miriam became leprous, as white as snow. Then Aaron turned toward Miriam, and there she was, a leper. 11 So Aaron said to Moses, “Oh, my lord! Please do not lay [e]this sin on us, in which we have done foolishly and in which we have sinned.

>So was it unlawful for Moses to have a second wife?

Are you feeling agitated?

Chris1975 · Jan 1, 2020

EleventhHour said:

Fluff.

eternally-gratefull · Jan 1, 2020

Chris1975 said:

Exodus 2
18 When they came to Reuel[c] their father, he said, “How is it that you have come so soon today?”
19 And they said, “An Egyptian delivered us from the hand of the shepherds, and he also drew enough water for us and watered the flock.”
20 So he said to his daughters, “And where is he? Why is it that you have left the man? Call him, that he may eat bread.”
21 Then Moses was content to live with the man, and he gave Zipporah his daughter to Moses.

Numbers 12 (years later)
12 Then Miriam and Aaron [a]spoke against Moses because of the [b]Ethiopian woman whom he had married; for he had married an Ethiopian woman. 2 So they said, “Has the Lord indeed spoken only through Moses? Has He not spoken through us also?” And the Lord heard it. 3 (Now the man Moses was very humble, more than all men who were on the face of the earth.)
4 Suddenly the Lord said to Moses, Aaron, and Miriam, “Come out, you three, to the tabernacle of meeting!” So the three came out. 5 Then the Lord came down in the pillar of cloud and stood in the door of the tabernacle, and called Aaron and Miriam. And they both went forward. 6 Then He said,

“Hear now My words:
If there is a prophet among you,
I, the Lord, make Myself known to him in a vision;
I speak to him in a dream.
7 Not so with My servant Moses;
He is faithful in all My house.
8 I speak with him face to face,
Even plainly,[c] and not in [d]dark sayings;
And he sees the form of the Lord.
Why then were you not afraid
To speak against My servant Moses?”

9 So the anger of the Lord was aroused against them, and He departed. 10 And when the cloud departed from above the tabernacle, suddenly Miriam became leprous, as white as snow. Then Aaron turned toward Miriam, and there she was, a leper. 11 So Aaron said to Moses, “Oh, my lord! Please do not lay [e]this sin on us, in which we have done foolishly and in which we have sinned.

>So was it unlawful for Moses to have a second wife?

Yes.

stop excusing sin!

what we see in the law is a provision, God knew men would sin, so he made provisions to make sure the women were taken care of.

it does not mean God said it was ok to,commit adultry.

again, you do not understand marriage from God’s view!

gb9 · Jan 1, 2020

Chris1975 said:

Exodus 2
18 When they came to Reuel[c] their father, he said, “How is it that you have come so soon today?”
19 And they said, “An Egyptian delivered us from the hand of the shepherds, and he also drew enough water for us and watered the flock.”
20 So he said to his daughters, “And where is he? Why is it that you have left the man? Call him, that he may eat bread.”
21 Then Moses was content to live with the man, and he gave Zipporah his daughter to Moses.

Numbers 12 (years later)
12 Then Miriam and Aaron [a]spoke against Moses because of the [b]Ethiopian woman whom he had married; for he had married an Ethiopian woman. 2 So they said, “Has the Lord indeed spoken only through Moses? Has He not spoken through us also?” And the Lord heard it. 3 (Now the man Moses was very humble, more than all men who were on the face of the earth.)
4 Suddenly the Lord said to Moses, Aaron, and Miriam, “Come out, you three, to the tabernacle of meeting!” So the three came out. 5 Then the Lord came down in the pillar of cloud and stood in the door of the tabernacle, and called Aaron and Miriam. And they both went forward. 6 Then He said,

“Hear now My words:
If there is a prophet among you,
I, the Lord, make Myself known to him in a vision;
I speak to him in a dream.
7 Not so with My servant Moses;
He is faithful in all My house.
8 I speak with him face to face,
Even plainly,[c] and not in [d]dark sayings;
And he sees the form of the Lord.
Why then were you not afraid
To speak against My servant Moses?”

9 So the anger of the Lord was aroused against them, and He departed. 10 And when the cloud departed from above the tabernacle, suddenly Miriam became leprous, as white as snow. Then Aaron turned toward Miriam, and there she was, a leper. 11 So Aaron said to Moses, “Oh, my lord! Please do not lay [e]this sin on us, in which we have done foolishly and in which we have sinned.

>So was it unlawful for Moses to have a second wife?

so, now you are saying that polygamy is o.k in modern times?>?

Chris1975 · Jan 1, 2020

James 4 v3-8 (a must read)

3 You ask and do not receive, because you ask amiss, that you may spend it on your pleasures. 4 [d]Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.

>this passage is directed to the Church, His called out ones. Those ask but ask amiss because they ask for the wrong things – worldly things. Instead of praying according to the heart of God, for the things which will advance the kingdom on this earth, they pray for things which will advance “Self”. This passage is not addressed to the unbeliever and unregenerate, because they cannot validly ask in such an instance at all.

>God equates this worldly asking to Adultery. Adultery is breaking covenant with God. We are BETHROTHED to God whilst still on this earth, legally married but not yet at the wedding feast. He who has the sanctification process ongoing with the church calls those in pursuit of worldliness adulterers. You cannot be in adultery (or referred to as adulterers) if you are not ALREADY in covenant with the Lord. So we are not talking about unbelievers here.

>Friendship with the world (which is sin) is enmity with God. You are working AGAINST God’s purposes. You have set your face against him, not submitting to his plans but rather carrying out your own. Serving the flesh because it’s the flesh that demands worldly satisfaction.

5 Or do you think that the Scripture says in vain, “The Spirit who dwells in us yearns jealously”?

>Think about that. Think and meditate on this one line of scripture. The Spirit who dwells in us (believers) yearns jealously. Why? Because he doesn’t have all of your heart. You have not submitted yourself to His ways, but are rather in pursuit of your own. This is ALREADY after having given us the Holy Spirit. Think on that.

6 But He gives more grace.

>Thanks be to God that he is patient with us. Because all of us reading this have not given our hearts 100% to God since we have started our walk with Him. We have been led astray in our thoughts and minds, and have occupied our time with worldly pursuits. Therefore come to the realisation of what He is going to say NEXT….

Therefore He says:

“God resists the proud,
But gives grace to the humble.”

>The PROUD Heart will continue to follow in pursuit of SELF

>The Humble heart will REPENT. Acknowledge that we haven’t been fully serving the Lord as we should, humble ourselves and repent of our wayward thinking.

7 Therefore submit to God.

>To His Ways

Resist the devil and he will flee from you.

>Resist the temptations that the devil has authority to temp you with. If you SET YOUR MINDS against the devil and his wiles, He will flee from you. Getting into agreement on the other hand will result in a cosying up. Not what you want.

8 Draw near to God and He will draw near to you.

>The ball is actually in OUR COURT. It’s not something he will impose on us. We are to draw near to Him. Like the prodigal son who went his way but then had a change of mind and heart, he returned to the Father. And his father came running out to meet him.

Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded.

>Get with the sanctification process. Stop being lukewarm about these things and seek first the kingdom of God in your life. Stop being adulterers. You have only One Lord. Him you must seek and serve and love.

Chris1975 · Jan 1, 2020

gb9 said:

I don't promote polygamy. I am a married man with a wife from my youth and no plans to marry another. A solitary union of a man and one wife should be more than sufficient. What I do say is that there is no law against it.

When did we move into modern times, and was there a new law that came into effect in the modern times? What law is this the a man is only to have one wife? If you say that's the case, you, who kick back against the law, are now becoming a law keeper. If I were to take a second wife, what LAW would I be breaking?

You see, you cant have your cake and eat it, as the saying goes.

Hevosmies · Jan 1, 2020

Chris1975 said:

Of course not. But today we should only have one wife. Dont know how you guys figure this simple stuff out? I've always disagreed with EG's WEIRD view (straight up ODD) that somehow having multiple wives equals ADULTERY. I just never said a thing cause im such a nice guy but now that its brought up again I gotta say:

Adultery is having sex with someone elses' wife. Adultery is not having sex with your wife, and God allowed OT saints to have more than one wife, therefore it was not a sin. SIN IS A VIOLATION of the law. If the law says thou shalt not steal and you steal YOU'RE A SINNER. If the law does NOT SAY thou shalt not steal and you steal, YOU DID NOT SIN.

Dont know whats the problem of having multiple wives in the OT? It was normal in those times and no sin was taken place it was blessed by God many times in fact. THATS THE MOSAIC COVENANT. Now we live in the NEW COVENANT and Jesus said it was in the beginning ONE MAN ONE WIFE Adam and Eve and thats how it is in the New Covenant as well.

SO LETS RECAP so you can stop arguing about this easy topic, lets stop the retarded arguments on a SETTLED ISSUE ok?:

1. We are in the New Covenant and TODAY we are to be like Adam and Eve, one wife one husband. NO MULTIPLE WIVES Chris!
2. In the Mosaic Covenant you could have more than one wife and it was A-OK blessed by God.
3. Adultery means to have sex with someone elses' wife, NOT to have sex with your own wife..... No defending of sin or excusing

END OF DEBATE. I forbid anyone from debating this DEADHORSE issue again!

EleventhHour · Jan 1, 2020

Chris1975 said:

I don't promote polygamy. I am a married man with a wife from my youth and no plans to marry another. A solitary union of a man and one wife should be more than sufficient. What I do say is that there is no law against it.

When did we move into modern times, and was there a new law that came into effect in the modern times? What law is this the a man is only to have one wife? If you say that's the case, you, who kick back against the law, are now becoming a law keeper. If I were to take a second wife, what LAW would I be breaking?

You see, you cant have your cake and eat it, as the saying goes.

It is actually ..."you can't eat your cake and have it too"

EleventhHour · Jan 1, 2020

eternally-gratefull said:

I agree it was a provision.

Chris1975 · Jan 1, 2020

Chris1975 said:

Just realised I missed such a key opportunity to highlight a single word in the above...….and it is worth meditating on. Those with eyes to see may you see.

Chris1975 · Jan 1, 2020

EleventhHour said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You_can't_have_your_cake_and_eat_it

Maybe you can update the Wikipedia page then.

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