Not By Works

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Chris1975

Chris1975

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Matthew 3 (John the Baptist)
7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism, he said to them, “Brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 8 Therefore bear fruits worthy of repentance, 9 and do not think to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I say to you that God is able to raise up children to Abraham from these stones. 10 And even now the ax is laid to the root of the trees. Therefore every tree which does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.

- preparation for Christ (1) repentance (2) fruits worthy of repentance (action/behaviour/works)
- do not think you have salvation by association (in this case Abraham). Just as applicable today for those who call themselves Christians but have no fruit.
-every tree that does not bear fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Applicable then (pre Christ's first Advent), and just as applicable by Christs words to the church (John 15 account).

This is the true gospel. The gospel which denies holy living is the counterfeit (which is no gospel at all).
 
G

gb9

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Jan 18, 2011
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Chris1975 said:
Matthew 3 (John the Baptist)
7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism, he said to them, “Brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 8 Therefore bear fruits worthy of repentance, 9 and do not think to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I say to you that God is able to raise up children to Abraham from these stones. 10 And even now the ax is laid to the root of the trees. Therefore every tree which does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.

- preparation for Christ (1) repentance (2) fruits worthy of repentance (action/behaviour/works)
- do not think you have salvation by association (in this case Abraham). Just as applicable today for those who call themselves Christians but have no fruit.
-every tree that does not bear fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Applicable then (pre Christ's first Advent), and just as applicable by Christs words to the church (John 15 account).

This is the true gospel. The gospel which denies holy living is the counterfeit (which is no gospel at all).
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sigh*

when a person truly comes to Christ ( truly), then the person receives the Holy Sprit .

then that person will consistently ( not perfectly , no one is perfect, not you, not me, no one is) manifest the fruits of the Sprit.

if a person is manifesting this truth, then they are living a holy lifestyle.

it is a closed system, just as a apple tree bears apples because it is a apple tree, a believer manifests the fruits, because they believe.
not to maintain there salvation.

by the way, sin study?? stared yet?? learned anything yet??
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

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Judges1318 said:
How do you know that he did not mean that in the way Peter said it in Acts 2:40?

40And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. - Acts 2:40
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I know because I was in an extended conversation with him and he believes that one is not saved until AFTER they are water baptized. He also pointed to other works of obedience that he claims help keep us saved. He fought against salvation through faith in Jesus Christ alone and clearly taught salvation by faith + works, which was no surprise to me, since he mentioned that he attended the church of Christ. By choosing to repent and place their faith in Jesus Christ for salvation, in a sense, these people in Acts 2 would be saving themselves from that perverse generation, yet it was still Jesus who ultimately saved them eternally.

That's why we really need to stop passing judgment on them. God can make them realize they are wrong if they really think in their heart that their works are literally earning them salvation. We can share what we want to help that happen, but we surely have no right to pass judgment on them.
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You seem to be naive about when someone is teaching salvation by works. :cautious:

I know. And I appreciate you saying that. (y)
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;)

Even if they are confused, I understand why they might be confused.
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They are confused because they don't believe the gospel and the natural man cannot understand. Been there, done that, prior to my conversion while still attending the Roman Catholic church several years ago. I was previously confused just like that man because I trusted in works for salvation and not in Christ alone.

I sure would rather deal with people who are trying real hard to be obedient because they think that's how they are saved than the person who thinks their works don't matter, which, by the way, usually equates to them sorely lacking in the works department.
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Regardless, without faith it's impossible to please God or to be saved, whether such people are trying hard to be saved by works or they are sorely lacking in the works department.
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

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JohnW34 said:
God through His word and the Holy Spirit challenges me every day. I want to follow His way and His word.
Do you believe in the forgiveness of sins and its cleansing through Jesus?
Internally not just externally.
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I'm still waiting for you to answer my question:

What do YOU believe the gospel IS and what do YOU believe it means to BELIEVE the gospel? (Romans 1:16)
 
J

JohnW34

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mailmandan said:
I'm still waiting for you to answer my question:

What do YOU believe the gospel IS and what do YOU believe it means to BELIEVE the gospel? (Romans 1:16)
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Walking with Jesus.

1 John 1:7
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.

We all have issues, things we get wrong, but as we grow and walk on in the Spirit, so our way becomes clearer.
 
J

JohnW34

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gb9 said:
so, how is the sin study going?
have you learned anything about what the word " sin " means??
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We all will always find issues in our lives until we are like Jesus.

1 John 1:7
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.

Does not the above encouragement from John that walking in the light purifies us from all sin?
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

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#121,627
JohnW34 said:
Walking with Jesus.

1 John 1:7
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.

We all have issues, things we get wrong, but as we grow and walk on in the Spirit, so our way becomes clearer.
Click to expand...
Our walk begins with Jesus AFTER we believe the gospel and become saved. The gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone who BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16) To BELIEVE the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation.

In regards to 1 John 1:7, in verse 6, we read - If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. Walking in darkness is descriptive of children of the devil. Walking in the light is descriptive of children of God. *Only those who are saved/believers are in the light.

Acts 26:18 - to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.

2 Corinthians 6:14 - Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness?

Ephesians 5:8 - for you were formerly darkness, but now you are Light in the Lord; walk as children of Light. Children of the devil walk in darkness, not in the light. Children of God walk in the light, not in darkness. IF confirms these positions in verses 6 and 7. It's one or the other.

In 1 John 2:9, we read - He who says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness until now. In vs. 11 - But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.

*Compare with 1 John 3:10 - In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, (compare with 1 John 1:6 - does not practice the truth) nor is he who does not love his brother. (Compare with 1 John 2:11 - he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness).

*Notice that hates his brother/walks in darkness is connected with children of the devil. *Hermeneutics. (y)
 
G

gb9

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Jan 18, 2011
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#121,628
JohnW34 said:
We all will always find issues in our lives until we are like Jesus.

1 John 1:7
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.

Does not the above encouragement from John that walking in the light purifies us from all sin?
Click to expand...
what is sin? how is it Biblically defined?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

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#121,629
JohnW34 said:
God through His word and the Holy Spirit challenges me every day. I want to follow His way and His word.
Do you believe in the forgiveness of sins and its cleansing through Jesus?
Internally not just externally.
Click to expand...
It’s through Jesus. Accomplished by God Baptizing us into Christ and his death. Much like the children of Israel were baptized into Moses
 
J

JohnW34

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mailmandan said:
Our walk begins with Jesus AFTER we believe the gospel and become saved. The gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone who BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16) To BELIEVE the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation.

In regards to 1 John 1:7, in verse 6, we read - If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. Walking in darkness is descriptive of children of the devil. Walking in the light is descriptive of children of God. *Only those who are saved/believers are in the light.

Acts 26:18 - to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.

2 Corinthians 6:14 - Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness?

Ephesians 5:8 - for you were formerly darkness, but now you are Light in the Lord; walk as children of Light. Children of the devil walk in darkness, not in the light. Children of God walk in the light, not in darkness. IF confirms these positions in verses 6 and 7. It's one or the other.

In 1 John 2:9, we read - He who says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness until now. In vs. 11 - But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.

*Compare with 1 John 3:10 - In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, (compare with 1 John 1:6 - does not practice the truth) nor is he who does not love his brother. (Compare with 1 John 2:11 - he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness).

*Notice that hates his brother/walks in darkness is connected with children of the devil. *Hermeneutics. (y)
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Amen. God bless you brother, may you continue to walk with Jesus
 
Chris1975

Chris1975

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#121,632
JohnW34 said:
Walking with Jesus.

1 John 1:7
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.

We all have issues, things we get wrong, but as we grow and walk on in the Spirit, so our way becomes clearer.
Click to expand...
And the verse before should make it clear to those who kick against holiness.

1 John 1
6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth.
 
Chris1975

Chris1975

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JohnW34 said:
Interesting desire you have. John simply says the answer to your definition is walking in the light.
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Aaah...but they don't like the light

John 3
19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”
 
E

EleventhHour

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#121,634
JohnW34 said:
Walking with Jesus.

1 John 1:7
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.

We all have issues, things we get wrong, but as we grow and walk on in the Spirit, so our way becomes clearer.
Click to expand...
Walking with Jesus is not the Gospel.

You need to read @mailmandan response very carefully.
 
J

JohnW34

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eternally-gratefull said:
It’s through Jesus. Accomplished by God Baptizing us into Christ and his death. Much like the children of Israel were baptized into Moses
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Amen. Everything is through Jesus, "I am the way, the truth and the life"

Some experience this as a reality internally in their lives, while others practise a belief system, keeping themselves intact, untouched and safe.

Philippians 3:8-9
What is more, I consider everything a loss compared to the surpassing greatness of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them rubbish, that I may gain Christ and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ--the righteousness that comes from God and is by faith.

The seed of God gives us this passion and desire.
 
E

EleventhHour

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Chris1975 said:
And the verse before should make it clear to those who kick against holiness.

1 John 1
6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth.
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You mean those of us who know that only Jesus is Holy.... meaning He is the only one wholly consecrated to what is pure.

We manifest His Holiness....we are not self righteous.

Therefore once again you make a false accusation.
 
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