Does I Corinthians 13 teach certain gifts ceased with the closing of the canon?

Paul wrote the gifts edify the body of Christ. The body of Christ still needs edifying. The body of Christ still needs knowledge, exhortation, comfort, and edification. The body still needs to grow to the full measure of the stature of Christ.

If this were not the case, conversations like the ones on this thread would not exist. This thread proves my point.

That would be the same Paul who wrote that three gifts would end. Not all the gifts just three that would no longer operate as they did with the apostles. The same apostles who had only the OT from which to preach Christ. With the NT all of the church could preach Christ to a lost and dying world.

Noble sentiments are not the same as biblical truth. It is the preaching that brings men to a knowledge of Christ because God has chosen preaching to accomplish that mission.

1 John 4:
7Beloved, let us love one another, because love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. 8Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.

9This is how God’s love was revealed among us: God sent His one and onlyc Son into the world, so that we might live through Him. 10And love consists in this: not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son as the atoning sacrificed for our sins.

11Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. 12No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God remains in us, and His love is perfected in us. 13By this we know that we remain in Him, and He in us: He has given us of His Spirit. 14And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent His Son to be the Savior of the world.

15If anyone confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God. 16And we have come to know and believe the love that God has for us. God is love; whoever abides in love abides in God, and God in him. 17In this way, love has been perfected among us, so that we may have confidence on the day of judgment; for in this world we are just like Him.

18There is no fear in love, but perfect love drives out fear, because fear involves punishment. The one who fears has not been perfected in love. 19We lovee because He first loved us.

Q. When will these things (love) being spoken of above come to pass? If these love only comes at the very end then the gifts have not ceased but if we love now, then all gifts ceased. Why is it that difficult for you to see.

Where there's love prophesy will cease/ knowledge will stop- if we still have prophesy and these gifts, then love has not been perfected in us which also means that we don't know God at all because God is not in us (1 John 4). And if God is not in us then we are not saved at all, nobody has since the 1st century.

The passage deals with partial knowledge being replaced by complete knowledge, not a book from which we get knowledge being complete. Knowledge is still incomplete, and many Christians have not attained the knowledge Paul had when he wrote the epistle.

Until when?

Eph 4:
11And it was He who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, 12to equip the saints for works of ministry, to build up the body of Christ, 13until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God, as we mature to the full measure of the stature of Christ.

14Then we will no longer be infants, tossed about by the waves and carried around by every wind of teaching and by the clever cunning of men in their deceitful scheming. 15Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into Christ Himself, who is the head. 16From Him the whole body, fitted and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love through the work of each individual part.

It is 'difficult to see' because the scriptures do not teach your theory.

I Corinthians 13 speaks of knowing fully as we are fully known. Now we now in part, so the perfect Paul writes of in that context has not happened yet.

If we go with a typical understanding of when books of scripture were written,
John wrote,
17In this way, love has been perfected among us, so that we may have confidence on the day of judgment; for in this world we are just like Him.

and then he wrote on to write a book of prophecy....oh yeah prophecy is a spiritual gift. The book predicted that others would prophesy and do certain miracles. If love were perfected among the saints before John wrote revelation, then spiritual gifts were still active after love was perfected, disproving your theory....a theory that does not fit the context of I Corinthians either. Love was abiding when Paul gave instructions on the gifts. In Ephesians 4, the operating of the gifts is connected to the body building itself up in love. Spiritual gifts are to be used in love and with love. Love does not replace them.

Do you believe the church has reached the full measure of the stature of Christ? Paul also writes, '
So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:'

Paul and John were addressing 'infants' then. When i say infants i don't mean individuals but the church as a whole. Unity in love was what was to bring them to maturity.

1 John 4 clearly says these perfect love means we know God, if we don't love one another we don't know God and God is not in us.

If God only comes in us at the end of age then no one is saved from 1st century.

1 Cor 13:8Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be restrained; where there is knowledge, it will be dismissed. 9For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10but when the perfect comes, the partial passes away.

It is clear that love was not perfected in the early church and Paul is saying when it is perfected then the partial disappears. The partial here refers to the gifts whose purpose was to edify members of the church to bring about that perfection. So the gifts were working against themselves because they were partial/temporary.

It is not possible that the church is still in its infancy.

The two witnesses do not come back to life and continue prophesying, they prophesy for 3.5 years (not literal time but figurative) after which they are killed. Satan also takes reign from for 3.5 years (figurative).
Resurrection is not bodily but spiritual. Paul and Peter resurrected as shown in 2 Cor 4 and 2 Pet 1.

What does this mean?

Col 1:
20and through Him to reconcile to Himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through the blood of His cross.

21Once you were alienated from God and were hostile in your minds because of your evil deeds. 22But now He has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy, unblemished, and blameless in His presence— 23if indeed you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope of the gospel you heard, which has been proclaimed to every creaturee under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.

Are you saying that neither Paul nor the Corinthians knew God when Paul wrote I Corinthians? Paul wrote about knowing in part versus knowing fully. Paul knew God... but he knew in part, as we all do now.

Like us, believers in the first century were saved, were being saved and will be saved.

Partial knowledge will be replaced with complete knowledge. John says that we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. We still await the salvation from heaven when Christ returns.

If our knowledge is complete, why do you disagree with basic historical doctrines of the church regarding Christ's return and the resurrection of the dead? Either the knowledge of the church is incomplete or your knowledge is incomplete.

Are you thinking God does nothing and you just proved he is strictly abstract?

So Paul and Peter figurativelly resurect and figurativelly prophecy?

When this figurative thing happen?

And what is this figurative thing realy mean?

In the bible some time Jesus Use parable

Matt 13


13 Later that same day Jesus left the house and sat beside the lake. 2 A large crowd soon gathered around him, so he got into a boat. Then he sat there and taught as the people stood on the shore. 3 He told many stories in the form of parables, such as this one:
“Listen! A farmer went out to plant some seeds. 4 As he scattered them across his field, some seeds fell on a footpath, and the birds came and ate them. 5 Other seeds fell on shallow soil with underlying rock. The seeds sprouted quickly because the soil was shallow. 6 But the plants soon wilted under the hot sun, and since they didn’t have deep roots, they died. 7 Other seeds fell among thorns that grew up and choked out the tender plants. 8 Still other seeds fell on fertile soil, and they produced a crop that was thirty, sixty, and even a hundred times as much as had been planted! 9 Anyone with ears to hear should listen and understand.”

Soil in this parable is not real soil It is figurative of human

You say prophecy in rev 11 is figurative.

What is the real meaning of prophecy in rev 11

No, only the time 3.5 years is figurative IMO, not the prophesy.

Cessationism is the belief that gifts of the Spirit, or certain gifts, ceased in the first century or at some later time. One theory is that I Corinthians 13 teaches this idea. Many cessationists reject the idea that 'that which is perfect' in the passage refers to the completed canon.

John Calvin's commentary on the chapter argued that the idea that the perfect referred to the 'intervening time' between either resurrection or death as 'stupid' or 'foolish' depending on your translation. While the idea that 'that which is perfect' seems to be out of favor with the more academic cessationists who study Greek, it still retains some popularity among the rank and file.

Is there any hint in I Corinthians that Paul discusses a completed canon of scripture? No. Does this assumption fit the context? No.

I Corinthians 13
10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

Paul compares his speech, thought, and understanding before the perfect came to that of a child, whereas that afterward would be as an adults.

Did Paul's speech, thought, and understanding change into that of an adult's when Revelation was written? No. He was asleep in Christ. Paul makes the passage personally about him. He will, however, experience the resurrection.

Suppose you want to 'stretch' this passage. Can you say that the speech, thought, and understanding of believers who lived after Revelation was so advanced compared to 1st century Paul's that his seemed like that of a child?

Not only does that position put the reader in a superior position to the apostles who wrote scripture, but it also is not true. Many of us read Paul's writings as believers, and years later gain a deeper understanding of them as we continue to read. The light bulb goes off and we get a new insight that Paul clearly had before us...an area where he was more 'perfect' than we were in our understanding.


It also does not make sense that if a group of kindergarteners write a book for infants, and if the infants gain a copy of the book or read it all, that they will suddenly grow up in their understanding to be like adults. Making yourself out to be an adult in understanding and the apostles to be children is not a good way too look at the scriptures, either.

Ephesians 3:4
Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

The New Testament is written so that we might attain to the level of the understanding the apostles had of the mystery of Christ. There is no guarantee in it that we will make their understanding like that of a child's in comparison by reading the scriptures.

I Corinthians 1
4 I thank my God always on your behalf, for the grace of God which is given you by Jesus Christ;
5 That in every thing ye are enriched by him, in all utterance, and in all knowledge;
6 Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you:
7 So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:
8 Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Here, as Paul starts out a letter in which he will address a number of themes, he hints at some of the topics he will address in chapters 12 through 15. Chapter 12 teaches on spiritual gifts, while chapters 13 through 14 and especially 14 focus on tongues and prophesying-- utterance gifts. Notice all utterance and all knowledge and compare to knowledge, tongues, and prophecy in chapter 13.

Chapter 15 teaches about the resurrection of the dead at the return of the Lord Jesus (at his coming.) Paul also refers to the 'end' in chapter 15 when he writes 'and then cometh the end'-- a grammatically inflected form of the same Greek word used here in 1:8 (Strong's G5056.)

Here in chapter 1, we see writes of the Corinthian church and believers everywhere coming behind in no spiritual gift waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. This is the 'lens' or 'exegetical key' we should use to interpret chapter 13. We should not read in some later theory or concept that is not even hinted at in the whole book, as those who argue that he is writing about the completed canon do.

So only 31/2 years is figurative

How about the ressurection of Oaul and Oeter like you say is that figurative?

You say prophecy that mention in rev 11 is real, not figurative, when that happen is that before Canon?

11 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

Yes 3.5 years is figurative

Peter and Paul resurrected long time ago IMO. I have given verses that suggest that, you needed to interrogate them.

Rev 11 is retrospective (talking back) to what had already happened that's why John is told to prophesy again just before Rev 11.

The passage deals with partial knowledge being replaced by complete knowledge, not a book from which we get knowledge being complete. Knowledge is still incomplete, and many Christians have not attained the knowledge Paul had when he wrote the epistle.

Yes 3.5 years is figurative

Peter and Paul resurrected long time ago IMO. I have given verses that suggest that, you needed to interrogate them.

Rev 11 is retrospective (talking back) to what had already happened that's why John is told to prophesy again just before Rev 11.

We are talking about unity in love, this is what makes up the church (Eph 4). If we are talking about unity in love then there's no way Paul would have segregated himself as much as he was laying the foundation, he was part of this church. That is the reason he said 'we'. If the 1st century church did not achieve achieve that unity in love then the apostles failed and God failed.

The partial is the gifts, the complete is the unity in love.

In 1 Cor 13:7, Paul is saying love beareth all things including faith, which means that once that unity is achieved in love, then knowledge (gift) ceases in the one who was edifying others through this knowledge but knowledge becomes complete in me who was being edified by the other person.

But it says when the perfect comes, the incomplete passes away.
John says loving others is knowing God. So, again, love bears all things including this knowledge that's the reason all partial disappears when love is perfected.

It simply means one or non of us is right. Which means one or non of us belongs to the church.