God In The Holocaust

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Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
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#1
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One has to ask, in point of fact there has been more than one rabbi ask:
How is it that so many of Moses' people were caught up in the Holocaust?
Where was God during all that? Why didn't He step in and do something to
protect His chosen people?

To find an answer to that question one need look no further than Ex 34:6-7,
Lev 26:3-38, Deut 27:15-26, and Deut 28:1-69. In other words: the Jews,
as a people, brought it on themselves in accordance with the covenant that
their ancestors agreed upon with God as per Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers,
and Deuteronomy.

A covenant is essentially a contract. Well; if God were to fail to fulfill His end
of the agreement; then He would be in breach of contract; which is not only
unethical, but also uncivil. Long story short: the covenant requires Him to
lower the boom on His people for failure to honor their end of the
agreement; and you can see the extent of the damage for yourself in the
scripture references in the above paragraph.

There are numerous blessings that God is contractually obligated to fulfill
too; so the covenant isn't all one-sided; viz: compliance with the covenant
accrues blessings; while breaching the covenant accrues curses. Anybody
who has read the Old Testament can attest that God came down on His own
people quite often for breaching the covenant; and just as often quite
cruelly. The curses that Lev 26:3-38, Deut 27:15-26, and Deut 28:1-69 list
are very disturbing; and when examining them, one cannot help but realize
they're reading a synopsis of the Jews' history.

The status of God's chosen people has its advantages; but also its
disadvantages; viz: the status of God's chosen people is not something to be
proud of; but rather, something to be afraid of because the covenant's God
is not the kind of judge influenced by favoritism. No; if anything, Moses'
people run the risk of being judged even more severely than Gentiles
because of their privileged position and the insider's knowledge they were
given of His likes and dislikes.

Amos 3:1-2 . . Hear this word that Yhvh has spoken against you, O
children of Israel, against the whole family which I brought up from the land
of Egypt, saying: You only have I known of all the families of the earth:
therefore I will punish you for all your iniquities.
_
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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#2
God poured out His wrath on the Jews in the first century. He does not continue pouring out His wrath for centuries, but only "to the third and fourth generation of those who hate Me". The Holocaust was indeed horrible, but it was the tragic outworking of satanic deceptions, as is all genocide since the first century (and most before).
 

Webers.Home

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May 28, 2018
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#3
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FAQ: Is the world supposed to believe it was the Jews' own fault that they
were rounded up like cattle, stripped of their dignity, their property, their
wealth, and their possessions, enslaved, starved, deprived of basic human
necessities, tortured, subjected to Frankenstein medical experiments,
worked to death, and gassed, shot, and incinerated by the millions?

A: If the covenant that Moses' people agreed upon with God is binding; then
yes; the Jews, as a people, are definitely at fault for what happened to
them. There's really no mystery to this: it's all laid out in black and white at
Lev 26:14-38, Deut 27:15-26, and Deut 28:15-69.

FAQ: God caused an event whose collateral damage led to the deaths of all
those other people too besides the Jews?

A: We're not saying God engineered the Holocaust. All we're saying is: He
stood by and did nothing to prevent a number of His own people being taken
in it. In other words: the essential thing that Moses' people brought upon
themselves was the loss of God's providence. I think God took advantage of
Hitler's agenda as an opportunity; viz: a convenient means of throwing His
people to the wolves like He did in the Old Testament with Nebuchadnezzar.

The covenant Moses' people agreed upon with God obligates Him to protect
them from misfortune when they're compliant with it; but the same time the
covenant also obligates God to lower the boom on them when they're not
compliant with it. If there is only one good thing to come out of the
Holocaust is that it proves to the world that God is reliable, viz: He can be
trusted to honor His commitments.
_
 
Jan 17, 2020
4,792
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#4
God would be unjust if bad happened and he is all powerful and can prevent it. The reason bad happens and he remains Just, is because all deserve the worst. Why do good things happen to bad people? That's the question.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,699
113
#5
1.) All have sinned and none is righteous. God is no respecter of persons.

2.) His 'Chosen People' are those who come to Jesus in humble surrender and accept His Atonement for their sins. We don't live in OT anymore. Jesus is the only way now.

3.) The Jews are not the only ones who went through tribulations in that war. America ran it's own concentration camps.

4.) None of us is exempt from trials and tribulations. See what they did to our Master. The Bible tells us that they will do the same to us.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,237
6,530
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#6
Beware of those who say they are Jews but are not. Theirs is a synagogue of Satan.

Just as is so-called Christian assemblies the Jews also have their own who are deceived. Learn how this is in the world.

I recall in the 1950's how two million Jews were killed by the Nazis and four million assorted other types of unexeptibles were exterminated. I do not see the dozens of holocausts museums built for them. Of course they were much oppressed by all ranks of society.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
24,733
13,400
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#7
God would be unjust if bad happened and he is all powerful and can prevent it. The reason bad happens and he remains Just, is because all deserve the worst. Why do good things happen to bad people? That's the question.
This implies that every "bad" thing that happens is God's direct will, which logically gives people a reason to reject Him. There is a better explanation that doesn't implicate God.
 

Aerials1978

Well-known member
Dec 10, 2019
1,707
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#8
The only thing I have to say with regards to this topic is:
11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small,standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books.13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. 14 Then death and Hadeswere thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

There is a time coming when everything will be made right!
 

Webers.Home

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May 28, 2018
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#9
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FAQ: Supposing we're right; that there is no one to blame for the loss of
Jewish life in the Holocaust but the Jews themselves? If so; then how many
of them would've had to breach the covenant to put them all in so much
danger?

A: It's surprising how few Jews it takes to ruin it for all the rest. For example
the incident at Ai in the 7th chapter of Joshua. The insubordination of one
insignificant Jewish man-- just one --caused God to stop assisting Joshua's
army in battle. As a result, 36 men were needlessly killed in action; and
ultimately capital punishment was inflicted upon not only the insubordinate
man himself, but also his sons and his daughters. God's accusation? "Israel
has sinned" (Josh 7:11)

See that? God didn't accuse the perpetrator; no; He accused Israel. In other
words: in that particular incident; the sin of just one Jew under Joshua's
command became the sin of all the Jews under his command; viz: the whole
kit and caboodle-- lock, stock, and barrel; and Israel could proceed no
further with its conquest of Canaan until the guilty man was executed.

And then there's this incident:

2Sam 21:1 . . Now there was a famine in the days of David for three
years, year after year; and David sought the presence of the Lord. And the
Lord said: It is for Saul and his bloody house, because he put the Gibeonites
to death.

Joshua agreed to a non-aggression pact with the Gibeonites during the
conquest of Canaan (Josh 9:3-16). Saul, when king, dishonored the pact. He
apparently got away with it; but not his countrymen, no; God slammed them
for what Saul did; and that posthumously.

In another Old Testament incident; God lowered the boom on 70,000 Jews.
What did they do to deserve it? Absolutely nothing. The insubordination of
just one Jewish man caused their deaths. King David breached the covenant
that Moses' people agreed upon with God by taking an unwarranted census.
As a result; those 70,000 Jews went to their deaths through no fault of their
own; it was all on David.

I can't imagine what just one Jew would have to do in order to bring about
the deaths of six million of his fellows; but if a whole bunch of them
throughout the world were breaching the covenant all at the same time, I
guess that could become a sort of force-multiplier.

That's pretty scary when you think about it because more than fifty percent
of the Jews living in the State of Israel right now today are hiloni (secular).
In my estimation, that's easily enough insubordinate Jews all in one place for
God to justify bringing down the whole country; and then if you combine
those with the number of insubordinate Jews around the rest of the world,
including the USA; now you can appreciate just how insecure Israel's future
really is.

Another possibility is that the generation caught by the Holocaust, was
caught not only due to their own breaches of the covenant, but also due to
breaches committed by generations preceding them.

Ex 34:6-7 . . Then Yhvh passed by in front of Moses and proclaimed: Yhvh,
Yhvh God, compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in
loving-kindness and truth; who keeps loving-kindness for thousands, who
forgives iniquity, transgression and sin; yet He will by no means leave the
guilty unpunished: visiting the iniquity of fathers on the children and on the
grandchildren to the third and fourth generations.

That statement is included in the covenant, so God is morally obligated to
honor it lest He be found in breach of contract. But it just goes to show that
sins have a way of snow-balling from one generation to the next till the
snowball is so big that it triggers an act of God; which is really scary because
it tells me that it's not impossible that the Jews of today are endangering the
Jews of tomorrow by their current breaches of the covenant-- breaches that
according to Ex 34:6-7, God will by no means sweep under the rug.

Wouldn't it be awful if the next Holocaust took place right inside the Jews'
own homeland? I sincerely believe that Saddam Hussein's SCUDS were a
wake-up call. Next time; incoming missiles just may contain nuclear
warheads instead of high explosives; and Jacob's people will be poisoned to
death with radiation instead of pesticide.

The upside to the Holocaust is its value as historical evidence for the
existence of the covenant's God. It is also valuable as historical evidence
that the covenant was still in force for Moses' people as recent as the middle
of the last century. True; the covenant is obsolete where Christians are
concerned; but that old dog can still bark.

I believe it's okay to pity the Jews as per Lam 1:12; but I do not believe it is
appropriate to let them get away with playing the victim all the time. That's
just a red herring diverting attention away from their own chronic failure to
honor the covenant in a manner consistent with God's requirements.
_
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,206
977
113
Oregon
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#10
.
FAQ: If true that the Jews, as a people, brought the Holocaust upon
themselves in accordance with the language of the covenant that their
ancestors agreed upon with God; then why don't they own up to it instead of
always going about playing the victim and acting so indignant?

A: Well; sad to say: the Jewish people, on the whole, are famous for their
obtuse attitudes; not only in the Bible; but in real life too. It's so common
and so chronic that we're forced to conclude that their attitudes are actually
quite systemic. Finding a Jew who will admit they are wrong-- wrong about
anything --is like searching for the Loch Ness monster and the lost city of
Atlantis.

The average John Q and Jane Doe Jew is so defensive, so reactive, so stiff
necked, so adamant, so self-righteous, so arrogant, and so infected with a
chosen-people superiority complex; that they simply cannot tolerate
criticism; not even criticism coming straight from the mouth of the very God
with whom they boast an elite association; for example:

Zech 7:11-12 . . But they refused to listen; and they turned a rebellious
shoulder; and they made their ears heavy, not to hear. And they made their
heart [as hard] as a shamir, [in order] not to listen to the Torah and to the
words that the Lord of Hosts sent, through His spirit by the earlier prophets.
And there was great anger from the Lord of Hosts.

Dan 9:5-6 . .We have sinned and have dealt iniquitously; we have dealt
wickedly and have rebelled, turning away from Your commandments and
from Your ordinances.

Dan 9:10-11 . .And we have not hearkened to the voice of the Lord our
God, to follow His teachings, which He placed before us by the hand of His
servants, the prophets. And all Israel have transgressed Your teaching,
turning away, not heeding Your voice, and the curse and the oath, which are
written in the Law of Moses, the servant of God, have befallen us, for we
have sinned against Him.

Jews have been playing the victim card for decades, and getting away with it
too; so it really riles them whenever somebody dares to suggest that the
misfortunes that have overtaken them down through the years, as well as
the problems that plague them now, are due to exactly what Daniel and
Zechariah said. For example:

The covenant that Moses' people agreed upon with God requires Him to
preserve peace in the land of Israel when His people are compliant. Well; the
land has been in a state of war since the day of its inception in 1948 and
nobody is safe over there; and were Israel not allied with the USA and
Britain, I fear the Arab world would crush it practically overnight.

The covenant also obligates God to restore Israel's borders when they are
compliant. Well; the State of Israel doesn't even have control over the
Temple Mount let alone its covenanted borders.

The covenant also obligates God to provide the State of Israel with abundant
rain when the people are compliant. Well; if not for ground water, Israel3
wouldn't have much of an agriculture. Alas, the historical Jordan River has
been reduced to a toxic trickle of its former self because so much water is
pumped out of it for irrigation.
_