The Doctrinal Belief of a Pre-Tribulation Resurrection. Is not spoken of in the Word of God. It was created by a sick and deranged woman

the kingdom of heaven is for all people. It went to the jew first. then sameria, then to the uttermost parts of the earth.

It's not something I want to fall out with someone over. Where you place the rapture isn't a salvation issue.

The problem is it's usually the pre-trib proponents who become emotional, inflexible and behave as if it's a heresy issue.
It's the pre-tribbers who are usually unwilling to study and discuss scripture without presupposing the ready-made narrative onto it.

I was taught a pre-trib rapture for years as a young believer. I couldn't see it in my own bible study. It doesn't add up to me.
When any attempt to question the theory is met with anger, insults and accusations of doubting the word of God it made me more suspicious that there is something wrong with the theory. It's not a supporting doctrine of the faith, it's not a salvation issue, yet it's jealously guarded with a near-fanaticism.

I tell pr-tribbers all the time that I hope they are right. But I'm not going to blindly follow them over a (proverbial) cliff when I can plainly see warning signs that the teaching doesn't stand up to scriptural scrutiny.

The kingdom of God is for all people. The kingdom of heaven is the promised earthly kingdom for the Jews. It's prophesied all throughout the OT. God has not forgotten. The kingdom of God is a spiritual kingdom in which lives inside the believer.

Don't. BelievePaul.

Wow, I mean wow, seriously?

your gonna compare a brother or sister in Christ who believes God may come and rapture, or “catch up” the church before the final 7 years of daniel with heretical false teaching non believers, who know nothing about Christ.

this is sad, and might I add, very disturbing.

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Yes I find it sad and disturbing that such a comparison can be made but not for the same reason you give. I am not saying that Pre Tribbers are not Christians. I am saying that they are deceived in this area Its also disturbing that I have written direct quotations from Paul and Jesus yet have no response. The thing you accuse me of is the same as I have received myself ie If you dont believe
the Pre Tribulation rapture your not a Christian.

My God job is to fight against false doctrinal teaching and the Pre-Trib Doctrine is in my opinion is a false doctrinal teaching and my opinion is base on the scriptural research I have done on the subject. I have never been influenced by any train of thought or Bible school or any denominational teaching. All of my conclusions come from strictly researching the Word Of God and it was God who gave me an unquenchable desire to research everything I can and every doctrinal belief to see if they align with scripture. Even the tiniest little nugget attracts me.
I am ok with God judging me on that. I don't feel a bit guilty about calling a person who teaches a false doctrine Deranged dead or alive. I am not dragging her name through the mud she drug her own name through the mud by teaching/preaching a false doctrine.
As far as I am concerned she falls into the same category as Adolf Hitler, Carl Marx, Bernie Sanders, Judas, Satan and anybody else who teaches a false doctrine and causes believers to follow that false teaching. It makes me angry when I see it and my heart aches for those who follow a false doctrinal teaching.

Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that
trouble you. And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus
shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels. In flaming fire taking
vengeance on them that know not God and obey not the gospel of our Lord
Jesus Christ. Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the
presence of the Lord and from the glory of his power. When he shall come to
be glorified with his saints and to be admired in all them that believe (because
our testimony among you was believed) in that day. Now we beseech you brethren
by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and by our gathering together unto him. That
ye shall not be shaken in mind or be troubled neither by spirit, nor by word nor by
letter as from us as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any
means for that day shall not come except there come a falling away first and that
man of sin be revealed the son of perdition. Who opposeth and exalteth himself
above all that is called God or that is worshipped so that he as God so that he as God
sitteth in the temple of God shewing himself that he is God. Remember ye not that
when I was with you I told you these things? And now ye know what withholdeth
that he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work
only he who letteth will let until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that
wicked be revealed whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth and
shall destroy with the brightness of his coming.

2 Thess 1:6 - 2:8

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout with the voice of the Archangel and with the trump of God
and the dead in Christ shall rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together to meet the lord in the
air and so we shall ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words. But of the time and the seasons
brethren ye have no need that I write unto you. For you know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh like a thief in the
night For when they say peace and safety then sudden destruction cometh upon them as travail upon a woman with child and they shall not escape.

1 Thess 4: 16 - 5:3

For as in Adam all die even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order
Christ the first fruits afterword they that are christ's at his coming. Then cometh the end when
he shall have delivered up the kingdom of God even the Father when he shall have put down
all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign till he hath put all things under his feet.

1 Cor 15:22 -25


Well this is Paul. I notice in these passages his description of Christs coming there is not any mention of a secret silent one. It seems to be a very noisy affair and terrifyingly public. Its interesting to note that Paul talks about the day of the Lord or the day of Christ
in the context of Christs coming no mention of two comings there.


I pray that thou shouldest take them out of the world but though shouldest keep them from evil'

John 17:15

Jesus prayed this to the Father. It is obvious that Jesus wasn't in favour of a Pre Trib rapture idea. His advice to the disciples was to flee to the mountains. Lets face it you couldn't find anyone more evil than the Antichrist. You would expect Jesus to have mentioned the Pre Trib alterative.

According to Pre Trib teaching The Hebrews in Egypt, Noah and the Ark and Lot with his Daughters were all types of the Pre Trib rapture. I agree that all are examples of God protecting his own from his wrath but none of them were zapped off into the air.
The only examples of people leaving the earth apart from Jesus are Elijah, Enoch and Phillip in Acts. None are mentioned having had transformed bodies.Some Jewish traditions believe that Elijah was transported somewhere else on Earth. No mention of Enochs
whereabouts though his book has him going all sorts of places. Philip ended up in Azotus and from there headed to Caesarea.


Yes I find it sad and disturbing that such a comparison can be made but not for the same reason you give. I am not saying that Pre Tribbers are not Christians. I am saying that they are deceived in this area Its also disturbing that I have written direct quotations from Paul and Jesus yet have no response. The thing you accuse me of is the same as I have received myself ie If you dont believe
the Pre Tribulation rapture your not a Christian.

I agree

Wrong
the kingdom future will have all nations in their land all rules by king messiah.

No the church doesn't suffer God's wrath.

A pre-trib rapture isn't needed though for that. No other position believes the church suffer's God's wrath either. It's a false claim by the staunchest proponents of pre-trib that their's is the only possible way for God to protect the church.

From what I see it is the people who think we are already in the millennium and Jesus is ruling now that are the most prideful. (I have been told by many I am
Not saved because I reject their theory) can agree pretribbers can be prideful also. Some of them I can not even stand. And they Give Christ a bad name (both sides)

it’s sad though prophecy is my favorite subject along with history. But I can’t discuss it because of all the hate

The Church exits the scene in ch 4 (in heaven along with their lampstand praising God and the Lamb) before the seals ch6 and is not mentioned again until ch 22. Only Jews and genties remain. indisputable fact.

"indisputable fact"
When it doesn't say ANYTHING like that? John was invited to witness a scene in heaven, not the whole church.
We would't need a Revelation of Jesus Christ that's 20 chapters long if the Church was to leave in chapter 4.

That is your incorrect assumption. Those chapters exist for the benefit of Jews and gentiles who are destined to go THROUGH the GT so that they themselves may have an anchor for their hope and faith such that they persevere to the end and therebye be saved . Very obvious to me.

Is that what is referred to as the 'amillennialist' view? That we are currently in the 1000 year reign of Rev 20?
I find that more amusing than anything else. What a ridiculous notion.

God didn't promise to restore the kingdom of Israel?

The Church exits the scene in ch 4 (in heaven along with their lampstand praising God and the Lamb) before the seals ch6 and is not mentioned again until ch 22. Only Jews and genties remain. indisputable fact.

You have no room to accuse me of assumption when you are the one reading so much more into the verse than is written there.
The book was written for and to the Church as it states in Chapter One.