Not By Works

Ok, though it seems to me you're generalizing with your criticism. Those who speak of the need for obedience don't necessarily hold themselves faultless, especially in a discussion like this. If they were out yelling at people trapped in addiction to stop sinning, then yeah that's a problem. But they're not, they're confronting people who have appointed themselves teachers telling them to be wary of the unintended consequences of their message. When it comes down to Scriptural discussion on the matter its more often speaking past each other and each side citing verses and reading them through their paradigm. And when it comes down to brass tacks OSAS proponents fall into an often false humility accusing those who propose the modest proposition that God is not mocked aren't aware of their shortcomings/sins.
I do apologize for not being charitable with my reading of your statement.

Good night John Boy.... Good night!

If ever an oxymoron existed, it’s right there.

Nope, OSAS doesn't teach this

where did you come up with this nonsense?

So you believe "formerly forgiven" is an oxymoron?
1) The sanitized saints that return to the mire and the vomit
2) The once enlightened, God gift tasting, partakers of the Holy Spirit that fall away and crucify Jesus
3) The saints who fail to endure to the end b/c their agape turns cold and dead
4) The forgiven Unmerciful Servant's punishment reinstated
5) The former righteousness of the righteous man forgotten by God for his backsliding in Ezekiel 18
6) God telling Moses that anyone that sins against Him will have his name blotted out in Exodus 32
7) Paul's caution about preaching to others but not himself becoming a "castaway" (David says being "cast away" is having the Holy Spirit taken from us)
You right! It MUST
Does trusting in the pilot to get me down safely mean I can't up and choose to say "to heck with the wife, kids, job, mortgage" and just jump out the plane?

Doesn't OSAS say I can't choose to be lost once I choose to be saved?

Funny, ... I am sure @PennEd is rightly centered on the love of Jesus.

I’ve heard people on the NOSAS side say that OSAS is of the devil and accuse OSAS believers of promoting a license to sin and being blinded by the god of this world and being ignorant and stubborn and not understanding the depth of wickedness they dwell in

Yes. Your flippant attitude does indeed tip the scales. When you draw the ire of a real gentleman such as PennEd, all the while engaging in snarky conversations with others, the onus falls on you.

It’s fine by me; I’m the king of sarcasm, on screen and in person. I rejoice with with everyone who wants to rejoice, teach and learn from whoever wants to teach and learn, and I shake the dust off my feet when necessary. For me it’s just another day in the office. Personally, I’m glad you’re here and look forward to future conversations regarding God.

Pretty sure Jesus didn't employ insult, mockery, and hypocrisy as part of His ministry...unless we're talking about some false christ, that is.

Pretty sure Jesus didn't employ insult, mockery, and hypocrisy as part of His ministry...unless we're talking about some false christ, that is.

Hey haaay! My "intelligent" brawny friend has unwittingly answered my question!! Bravo Phoneman!

He has agreed that hypocrisy IS indeed a presumptive sin. So our sinless perfectionist claims wants to slice and dice sin into neat little packages, and say that these sins over here are paid for, but those sins over there are not covered by the Blood of Christ.
So I am guessing he also believes that PETER has lost his Salvation. Ya know, the same Peter that traveled with Jesus, and wrote 1 and 2 Peter. Peter ABSOLUTELY committed the presumptive sin of hypocrisy, and therefore, according to Phoneman, has lost his Salvation for committing this presumptive sin. None other than Paul himself told Peter to his face that he was committing hypocrisy.

Galatians 2:11-13 New King James Version (NKJV)
No Return to the Law
11 Now when [a]Peter had come to Antioch, I [b]withstood him to his face, because he was to be blamed; 12 for before certain men came from James, he would eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing [c]those who were of the circumcision. 13 And the rest of the Jews also played the hypocrite with him, so that even Barnabas was carried away with their hypocrisy.




Goodnight Johnboy!

I'm not interested in the opinions of a disrespectful provocateur who gives me no indication of having ever met the Jesus Christ of Scripture, thank you very much.

Well we can add lying to whatever other presumptive sins you've committed here my large and brave amigo!

would like you to Read my latest Post #131,395 . And tell me if I handled it RIGHT. It is YET another LIE about OSAS BELIEFS.

You mean I took the time to look up all those Biblical examples which prove the saints can fall from grace and you're still not convinced? I'll pray for ya, bro.

Look, pal, if you want a place where nobody ever disagrees over doctrine, please step on over to the OSAS Safe Space. You can borrow a crayon and a teddy bear and show the rest of us where the disagreements hurt you.

Hmmm... One of my favorite verses and quotes from Jesus is this:

Mark 2:17 New King James Version (NKJV)
17 When Jesus heard it, He said to them, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.”


You look pretty dang healthy to me! So much so, I bet you can't even see the sarcasm from Jesus here.

Ahh, so people have to give YOU proof they know Jesus.

Makes sense I guess. After all you don't ever commit any sins, er sorry, PRESUMPTIVE sins that is!

Speaking against licentiousness is Biblical, it's just that when people contest licentiousness on this thread it's misdirected. I have never seen an OSAS believer here promote or defend licentiousness. Not one. We are unanimous in rejecting licentiousness. OSAS and licentiousness might be preached together by some elsewhere, but they are not a package.

This is thread about giving full credit to God's grace for our salvation, contesting licentiousness here is only bringing all participants to frustration. It would be a WAY better effort to open separate threads addressing specific false teachers (and also that way their followers may find it when googling)...

We only differ in that we believe that salvation isn't something losable, in that case nobody can be called saved nor is there real safety, salvation can only be proclaimed upon death (when one can't mess it up anymore). Instead, we believe than that a person wanting to "live it up with the world" is still unregenerate and needs to be born again. It makes no sense that someone receives a new heart from God, and this new reformed heart wants to trample the blood of grace. People teaching such evils are unregenerates. The new heart doesn't rejoice in sin (which as we agree doesn't mean the person is immune from stumbling). God chastising us and providing correction when we stumble proves we are His children.

Salvation loss theology is as dangerous as licentiousness. This instills doubts into the less mature who are being drawn to God still but don't yet know Him, making a person believe that God abandoned them and that they are damned if they stumble. In fact, this had kept me away from God for many years before I was born again. Instead of turning to God and pressing on until the obstacle is overcame, they might lose heart, needlessly staying in a spiritual limbo and suffering, or rebelling against God for a long time. They will look at other Christians to compare themselves and since some claim how they never sin anymore, they may start thinking they'll never make it, become atheists or maybe get deceived by licentious teachers...

It's that narrow middle way, not to the right, or to the left.

Apology accepted, and thanks for allowing me to clarify