This Corona virus pandemic could be the weapon that takes our liberties away , all in the name of saving lives?

And, this virus thing is just a repeat -- different method and scenario, but same pattern...

There's a concept called the hierarchy of needs....after you've got food and clothing you start to worry about things like love and finding a partner, check that box off and you start to want to acquire things to express who you are....after that you might worry about what they call self actualization.

But before any of that , in my opinion (I differ with Maslow here) is safety.....a person will run naked into the snow from a warm home full of food to escape danger. Fear is a primary motivator.....and this virus has people scared...very very scared. And its my view that for some, considerations about concepts like individual liberties and freedom have been abandoned because this primary need for safety has been threatened.

This kind of reporting can be used many ways.....imagine if deaths from the flu were reported in this manner every year.

Or how about the 600,000 people who die in the United States from cancer in a year. Don't take my word for it:

In 2018, an estimated 1,735,350 new cases of cancer will be diagnosed in the United States and 609,640 people will die from the disease.

600,000 comes to 1,643 deaths per day on average. People are already scared of contracting this very lethal disease....imagine if every night the evening news started with....."CANCER, THE CARNAGE CONTINUES, ALMOST 1,800 DEATHS TODAY".

Ahhh ahhh I hear some saying, BUT CANCER ISN'T CONTAGIOUS!!! True.....its not contagious, just deadly, and more people die of Cancer in the United States than any other disease except one, Heart Disease, also not contagious.

Right now everything possible is being done to stop the Coronavirus in order to save lives. Even if it destroys the economy....it doesn't matter, this is a crisis. 100+ thousand Americans could die, maybe even 200K+.

But what about those people who are dying from Cancer? Could nothing be done? Nothing at all?

I can think of a way....and you wouldn't have to destroy the economy and risk driving people to suicide to do it. It wouldn't cause spikes in domestic violence and homicides that coincide with economic hardship.

Just ban smoking....make the consumption, possession, selling and distribution of tobacco products punishable with at least the same fines that some jurisdictions are enforcing for people who opt to have a back yard party with the lockdown rules. It wouldn't save everyone from cancer of course.....but check out what the CDC says:

Cigarette smoking is responsible for more than 480,000 deaths per year in the United States, including more than 41,000 deaths resulting from secondhand smoke exposure. This is about one in five deaths annually, or 1,300 deaths every day. On average, smokers die 10 years earlier than nonsmokers.Nov 28, 2018

If this is really about saving lives....then why has this never been done, or even seriously debated. If governments around the world are willing to sacrifice their national economies to save lives, why not sacrifice one small industry and reap a huge benefit...I bet you'd save more lives by banning tobacco products than lockdown measures will with lockdowns.

And I say this as a smoker....and guess what, cigarettes are still being sold during these extreme measures, which means they're somehow essential.

Massive lie.. like the Flu?

Doctors do not die like this during flu season

Sixty-one doctors and other healthcare professionals have died of COVID-19 in Italy, which has been the country worst hit by the coronavirus pandemic so far, with 11,591 deaths as of March 30, according to the Johns Hopkins coronavirus resource center.

Source

I don't to listen to You tube, I can use Excel make a spread sheet put in my own formulas and track the data.

It is clearly an exponential growth curve, even with the most conservative real time data posted all around the internet.

Lisa is a fake, not a truther, this has been known for years.

I would love to see the stats for how many Doctors die during from influenze during a flu season....I've never seen it reported, please share a link.

I would love to see the stats for how many Doctors die during from influenze during a flu season....I've never seen it reported, please share a link.

No one knows how many die from the flu ... those counts you read are numbers churned out by computers and models. There are no body counts.

Some models count every death in a hospital with lung problem as a flu death
Those numbers really do not tell us much.

I am thinking the only solid numbers for this virus would be South Korea because they have tested so many people with this virus and knowing that culture, a bit, they strive for accuracy.

Wait, if one is going to say something like "deaths like this are never seen like this from the flu".....then unless you have actual data to back it up, then you're talking out of your nether regions.

You are rude.
Do your own research, not my job
There are plenty of open access journals
Seasonal flu numbers are not counted and tallied.... they are computer generated models based on a variety of different data sources.

I'm not being rude...you're the one who once exhorted me to PROVE IT with respect to the ICollege report and I did.

I'm sorry if you were offended, but if you're going to make a statement I merely ask you to back it up with facts. I'm sorry if that hurt your feelings, it was not my intent.

Well there is no proof here there is only information/data that has to be gathered and analysed.

Up to us to cross check and figure out what the assumptions and biases are.
I do not regard this as a debate forum, I am only sharing information that I feel is most reliable
My nephew is presently working on his PhD at McGill University, works out of the hospital there and is on a task force looking at this pandemic doing data analysis. I trust him and what he tells me, he is seeing it first hand and is dealing with the numbers.

This is not the seasonal flu.
And it is a mess until they find a treatment because obviously we cannot have a world economy grind to halt
The projections for the economy were just as dire if the government had done no containment or mitigation.
Unchecked epidemics have crushed countries before.
That is all I been trying to state... it is a complicated virus and the ramifications are extensive.

So those people, NOT you, are saying there is no "virus" need to give their head a shake and put their feet back on the ground.

Agreed, its not the seasonal flu....we have antibodies and vaccines to protect us from the flu every year, and even with those defenses ~600,000 people can die due to influenza in a bad year. https://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=208914

When this is all said and done we'll see if its worse, the same, or not as bad.

Italy, the country I'm looking at as the proverbial canary in the coal mine, the reported numbers are currently 17,000+ as I type this, so it still has a way to go to reach the 25,000 that died during the 2016/2017 flu season. How many were doctors is basically meaningless to me because there was no reporting on the number of doctors who died from flu that year....without context its impossible to judge something.

Okay, you still do not get it, the seasonal flu is not a pandemic.
Seasonal flu is seasonal and goes from country to country with the changes in seasons.

If front line workers were dying from a seasonal flu it would be a pandemic and actual would not be a seasonal flu.
Not interested in going round in circles anymore.

Broadly speaking we have two competing narratives going on here.

On the one hand you have those who believe the pandemic is incredibly serious and that, if anything, not enough is being done.....that lock down measures should perhaps be enforced even more. They see anyone disagreeing as being woefully uninformed and perhaps naive or too conspiratorial minded.

On the other hand you have those who think everything is being overblown and that the measures being taken are far too extreme. This group sees anyone disagreeing as definitely being extremely naive and unaware of some ulterior motive, be it 5G a new vaccine, or whatever.

I hope both camps are wrong.

I want to thank you for this. I used come to this site for hope and encouragement. Now it gives me anxiety and fear, just what we all need right?👍

Well there is no proof here there is only information/data that has to be gathered and analysed.

Up to us to cross check and figure out what the assumptions and biases are.
I do not regard this as a debate forum, I am only sharing information that I feel is most reliable
My nephew is presently working on his PhD at McGill University, works out of the hospital there and is on a task force looking at this pandemic doing data analysis. I trust him and what he tells me, he is seeing it first hand and is dealing with the numbers.

This is not the seasonal flu.
And it is a mess until they find a treatment because obviously we cannot have a world economy grind to halt
The projections for the economy were just as dire if the government had done no containment or mitigation.
Unchecked epidemics have crushed countries before.
That is all I been trying to state... it is a complicated virus and the ramifications are extensive.

So those people, NOT you, are saying there is no "virus" need to give their head a shake and put their feet back on the ground.

Don't believe everything you read