Not By Works

I think if we do what Christ said, use him as our example. we will by practice live obedient lives, and as such, will be seen as commandment keepers. not breakers.

Does this make sense?

Yeah, it does. Though I think we've got to be careful to ensure it is the Christ of the Bible an not the Christ pop culture paints. Part of that is being familiar with the examples He used from the law to see the new light He shed on it.

here we go back to law again. I thought we just agreed that was dangerous and not the way it should be

would it not be better yet to use examples Christ showed us in his own life, The examples of other men and women of God in the OT, Examples and teaching of the NT authors. and their congregations?

It's not back to law because it's not to follow the prescriptions of the law but to understand the words of Jesus to get an accurate picture. And yes that includes the examples of men and women of God from the OT as well as those from the NT. The law gives us the context for understanding both Jesus and the NT authors because they were steeped in it.

Paul said the law was a schoolmaster to lead us to Christ

we need to keep it in that context. anything outside of that context is using it beyond its purpose

If we want to use the law to learn more about history, and how deeply broken we really were. To review why we need Christ and What Christ did for us. I can see it.

Using the law as an example of what it looks like to be morally Good. Again, Thats like driving a car from new york to london.

It seems to depend on how you view it as a schoolmaster. From Paul's writings it seems his intent was to point out how we look to its righteousness and our failings. The law itself is still righteous and just, and when Paul wrote of not being under it he seemed to be refering to a specific aspect of it. Namely the diet, circumcision, and Sabbaths. In order to understand Jesus' words we often have to understand both the specific laws He speaks of and the circumstances under which they were given. An example of this is the temptation narratives in Luke and Matthew gain a new depth when we recognize that the quotes Jesus uses all come from the period in the wilderness when Israel failed to meet God's standard.

I would say if your FAITH is DEAD , you were never sAVED.. IT takes both, Faith is DEAD without WORKS , if your FAITH is DEAD, how can you be saved. No works would suggest it was jsut a thought process. so go back to the start , talk to GOD about it , dont debate the word. If it SAYS faith without works is DEAD, then talk to GOD if you have no works. Ignoring certain scritpures becasue it doesnt form part of the doctrine you choose is not a good start.

IF your faith is dead, were you ever saved to begin with, nothing to lose as your thoughts don't get you saved, Your FAITH does. and how do you know your faith is alive? By your works? by being DOERS of the word not just hearers.

I accept Pauls message the Salvation is via Faith , which is a gift of GOD. But you need to understand what FAITH means. IT is not jsut a feeling , it is the EVIDENCE of thigns hoped for, and the proof you have faith is that you have GOOD works.

Not one or the other. BUT it takes BOTH.. FAITH is what leads us to repentence and salvation. WORKS is how we know out FAITH is alive.

But i will move on now, as i am no gifted orator or debator, i just read the scripture and use all of them. Not jsut ones thst equal what i already beleive.


I would suggest you talk to GOD about what it means for you, not debate it on a website.

We are in good company with Paul who was accused of the same thing as per Romans 3:8. No one in the camp attacking will ever be accused of this as their gospel is tainted with self-effort, thus the element of grace is mitigated to the extent there is nothing to mock them over concerning abusing it. True Gospel preaching will always have a stigma and receive accusations of abusing grace as we see here.

Amen! in Jude 1:4, they are described as certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord. In verse 12, they are described as spots in your love feasts, while they feast with you without fear, serving only themselves. They are clouds without water, carried about by the winds; late autumn trees without fruit, twice dead, uprooted. *This is not descriptive of saved believers, so there is no loss of salvation here.

Jude is exhorting believers to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints (vs. 3) because certain ungodly men who have crept in unnoticed. Jude further describes these ungodly men as ones who cause divisions, worldly-minded, devoid of the Spirit (vs. 19) In contrast to those who are called, sanctified by God the Father, and PRESERVED in Jesus Christ (vs. 1). Psalm 37:28 - For the Lord loves justice, And does not forsake His saints; They are PRESERVED FOREVER, But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off.

Amen.

God is not to be mocked or is he fooled, or unaware of who and what we are. As David said, God knew us before we were conceived. He knew those people would do exactly what they are doing, or did or will do. And because of that Their condemnation was set in stone..All they did was prove God was right about them to begin with,

I am sorry man, But this is dangerous.

Jesus lived his life by doing what he told us to do. Love the lord His God. And then love all people as himself.

I would suggest we stop looking at something that has passed and faded away or the oldness of the letter. and look at something they did BEFORE the law was even given, and that Jesus both taught, practiced and perfected. or the newness of the spirit

Hebrews 8:13
In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Not to be argumentative, but where in scripture does it say this? Not Psalm 139.

If God knew david. Does he not also Know us?

God saw David’s substance in the womb before He was formed, before he was made perfect, complete. That’s Psalm 139.

15 My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.
16 Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.

Amen...not to mention as false as....

You must have missed the rest of the book.....To enjoy to fruits of one's labor is indeed from the HAND OF GOD according to Solomon!!

100% agree....he is as false as they come and his dogma straight from the pit!

You are a religious joke man.....

One of the many inept lines of bs he peddles!