Judas Iscariot will sit in throne and judge Israel?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Jun 10, 2019
4,304
1,659
113
#81
You're right...And praise God for his Grace upon Paul, the chief of sinners.
The risen Lord appeared even to Paul, the least of the apostles. This is not a reference to gradation within the apostolate, for elsewhere he can say, ‘I do not think I am in the least inferior to those “super-apostles” ’ (2 Cor. 11:5). In this spirit he could resist even Peter (Gal. 2:11). What Paul means is that his character as a persecutor had made him the least of them all; indeed, he was not worthy to be an apostle at all. Paul holds firmly to two things. The one is the high dignity attaching to his position as an apostle, as we see from several passages in his writings (chapter 9). The apostolate is the highest office in the church, and Paul is an apostle in the fullest sense, because Christ called him to it. The other is his profound sense of personal unworthiness. He is the chief of sinners (1 Tim. 1:15). He is not worthy to be an apostle, for he has persecuted that church that is the church of God.
Yup the 13th apostle
 
Jun 10, 2019
4,304
1,659
113
#82
You want to know something cool everyone?
When I was considering this subject (Matthias vs Paul as Jesus' replacement for Judas), I discovered something that could be profound. If I'm wrong about this, then I think the name "Matthias" is significant. In Hebrew his name is actually called "Methuselah" meaning "in his death it shall come" or "his death shall bring"....sounds like a good match for the situation at hand. Think about it, Judas' death brings about the need for a replacement. :)
Where did you discover that in Hebrew Matthias is called methuselah haven’t found any place that says that.

Methuselah, man of the javelin

Mathias,, a male given name from Hebrew, derived from the same source as Matthew.
 

Diakonos

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2019
1,381
434
83
31
Anacortes, WA
#84
Paul came to my thoughts as well. Paul actually did make the claim that everything he wrote, said, preached came directly to him from Jesus Himself. And since we always include Paul as being 1 of the 12 Apostles in the Book of Acts, makes sense to choose him as well. And like the first 12 Disciples, Jesus hand picked Saul/Paul to be a vessel like the other remaining 11.
Right. Which is one of the qualifications. You have to be chosen by the Lord.
 

Diakonos

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2019
1,381
434
83
31
Anacortes, WA
#86
Where did you discover that in Hebrew Matthias is called methuselah haven’t found any place that says that.

Methuselah, man of the javelin

Mathias,, a male given name from Hebrew, derived from the same source as Matthew.
Greek
Hebrew

Matthias is the Greek equivalent of Methuselah.
Just like how Jesus is the Greek equivalent of Yeshua, or how Hades is the Greek equivalent for Sheol, etc
 
Jun 10, 2019
4,304
1,659
113
#87
Greek
Hebrew

Matthias is the Greek equivalent of Methuselah.
Just like how Jesus is the Greek equivalent of Yeshua, or how Hades is the Greek equivalent for Sheol, etc
Show me the link, not wordage, everything I’ve read doesn’t say in Greek Mathias is equivalent to Methuselah.

Jesus in Greek is

Ιησούς
Iisoús
 

Diakonos

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2019
1,381
434
83
31
Anacortes, WA
#89
Show me the link, not wordage, everything I’ve read doesn’t say in Greek Mathias is equivalent to Methuselah.

Jesus in Greek is

Ιησούς
Iisoús
It was mentioned in a footnote of a cross reference in my BDAG lexicon at home. If I had the page open when i saw your comment, I could have given the page number.
But with what I have in front of me, I found this to illustrate the common root in their names:

1586906980855.png
 
Jun 10, 2019
4,304
1,659
113
#90
It was mentioned in a footnote of a cross reference in my BDAG lexicon at home. If I had the page open when i saw your comment, I could have given the page number.
But with what I have in front of me, I found this to illustrate the common root in their names:

View attachment 214516
Just post the link and I will look at it not circling Mat at the beginning.

I can see the numbers next them, 3417 and 5500 how you get those together
 
4

49

Guest
#91
I agree with everything here except "they weren't indwelt" They were born again in John 20:22, they just hadn't been baptized with the Holy Spirit yet. So they were born again, but they had no imparted power to witness and be led by the Holy Spirit yet
Can you expound a little on this? Thanks!
 

Nebuchadnezzer

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2019
1,134
205
63
#92
Matthias. Acts 1:21-26.
Wasn't Matthias chosen by the apostles before they rec'd the Holy Spirit thereby making Matthias a man-appointed apostle?

Isn't Paul, who was God-chosen, the twelve apostle? Or are we to think of Paul as the 13th apostle?
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
13,058
4,346
113
#93
Wasn't Matthias chosen by the apostles before they rec'd the Holy Spirit thereby making Matthias a man-appointed apostle?

Isn't Paul, who was God-chosen, the twelve apostle? Or are we to think of Paul as the 13th apostle?
wasn't Matthias there at the empowering of the Church in Acts 2?
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,474
13,785
113
#94
Wasn't Matthias chosen by the apostles before they rec'd the Holy Spirit thereby making Matthias a man-appointed apostle?

Isn't Paul, who was God-chosen, the twelve apostle? Or are we to think of Paul as the 13th apostle?
To me, it doesn't matter at all. That's God's to sort out. :)
 

Nebuchadnezzer

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2019
1,134
205
63
#95
Wasn't Matthias chosen by the apostles before they rec'd the Holy Spirit thereby making Matthias a man-appointed apostle?

Isn't Paul, who was God-chosen, the twelve apostle? Or are we to think of Paul as the 13th apostle?
wasn't Matthias there at the empowering of the Church in Acts 2?
Why not just answer my questions first?
 
Feb 1, 2020
725
225
43
35
#96
Wasn't Matthias chosen by the apostles before they rec'd the Holy Spirit thereby making Matthias a man-appointed apostle?

Isn't Paul, who was God-chosen, the twelve apostle? Or are we to think of Paul as the 13th apostle?
Yes Matthias was chosen before the Pentecost, but Matthias is not a man-appointed apostle because he was appointed when the Lord was inquired by the Eleven and also in fulfilment of scripture and also fulfilling the requirements of being present through Jesus' ministry from the baptism by John the Baptist to the Ascension.

Paul was indeed an apostle, but Paul is not one of the Twelve. Paul is much like his fellow apostles Barnabus and Silas whom were also apostles that Paul journeyed with, but they were not of the Twelve. Lol there is no thirteenth apostle, the Twelve are merely the Twelve, and the other apostles are merely other apostles. Apostle is merely an office of the Spirit like prophets, healers, preachers, and teachers. The Twelve are something a little grander, in that they serve as Patriarchs, or Fathers, of Israel in a spiritual sense alongside the Twelve physical Fathers of the race of Israel (ie: Judah, Levi, Isaachar, etc.)
 

Nebuchadnezzer

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2019
1,134
205
63
#97
Yes Matthias was chosen before the Pentecost, but Matthias is not a man-appointed apostle because he was appointed when the Lord was inquired by the Eleven and also in fulfilment of scripture and also fulfilling the requirements of being present through Jesus' ministry from the baptism by John the Baptist to the Ascension.

Paul was indeed an apostle, but Paul is not one of the Twelve. Paul is much like his fellow apostles Barnabus and Silas whom were also apostles that Paul journeyed with, but they were not of the Twelve. Lol there is no thirteenth apostle, the Twelve are merely the Twelve, and the other apostles are merely other apostles. Apostle is merely an office of the Spirit like prophets, healers, preachers, and teachers. The Twelve are something a little grander, in that they serve as Patriarchs, or Fathers, of Israel in a spiritual sense alongside the Twelve physical Fathers of the race of Israel (ie: Judah, Levi, Isaachar, etc.)
Got Questions gives an answer to this Question:
"Was Matthias or Paul God’s choice to replace Judas as the 12th apostle?"

https://www.gotquestions.org/Matthias-Judas-Paul.html

It's conclusion is this:
So, what name will be written on the 12th foundation in the heavenly Jerusalem (Revelation 21:14)? The Bible does not explicitly say, but it likely will be Matthias. Ultimately, though, we will have to wait to find out.
 
Feb 1, 2020
725
225
43
35
#98
Got Questions gives an answer to this Question:
"Was Matthias or Paul God’s choice to replace Judas as the 12th apostle?"

https://www.gotquestions.org/Matthias-Judas-Paul.html

It's conclusion is this:
So, what name will be written on the 12th foundation in the heavenly Jerusalem (Revelation 21:14)? The Bible does not explicitly say, but it likely will be Matthias. Ultimately, though, we will have to wait to find out.
Lol I suppose they got questions, but they don't got answers.

Yes, Matthias' name will be there for Matthias is one of the Twelve, by taking the place of the traitor Judas Iscariot, and because Matthias accompanied Jesus and the others from the start to the finish.
 

massorite

Junior Member
Jan 3, 2015
544
118
43
#99
Matthew 19:28: And Jesus said to them, "Truly I say to you, that you who have followed Me, in the regeneration when the Son of Man will sit on His glorious throne, you also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

So, Judas Iscariot is going to be one of them?
Matthew 19:28 was spoken before Judas betrayed Christ. Judas's decision to betray Christ and his suicide sent him to a bad place for ever so I don't think he will be judging anybody.
 

Nebuchadnezzer

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2019
1,134
205
63
Matthias was chosen by men. Paul was chosen by God.

View attachment 214454

The fact that he wrote 1/3 of the N.T. should be compelling enough.
Revelation 21:14 (KJV)
And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

The twelve apostles that Jesus had chosen include Paul, but not Matthias.

In this regard I would say Paul is one of the apostles of the Lamb.
I would then lean that Matthias, not chosen by Jesus, is not one of the apostles of the Lamb.

I realize that this is both interesting and worthy of our study and prayer. However, let us not tear each other down over such matters which are not critical for our salvation. Let us remember to build up one another.