Not By Works

A Gentile called out of the Ur of the Chaldees .....

Amen. The New Testament is indeed in the Old concealed. The Old Testament is in the New revealed. Luke 24:27 "And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, He explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning Himself."

Revelation the Lord began giving me 20 years ago:

Actually Paul had a great fear

A fear no one would listen to him because he did something that destroyed his reputation.

A fear his word would be lost because he was not a light to the lost

Many of us have fears.

In this passage, Paul tells us what to fear. He says we are lights in a wicked and perverse generation.

13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.

14 Do all things without [d]complaining and disputing,[e] 15 that you may become blameless and [f]harmless, children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world,


1. It is God who works in us. We should fear we prevent God from doing what he wants to do.
2. We should do all things without grumbling and complaining, Being blameless and harmless children
3. Why? See Above.. So our light does not go out. So we are not seen as hypocrites. as many are. And so God can work out what he has given us in us and through us

Somethign I will never worry or fear. Is God kicking me out of his family. For he has not given me a spirit of fear. But of sound mine, Whereby I can even enter in, and call him my Abba!

Luke 12 opens up in verse 1 with, "..Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy." 4 I tell you, My friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body and after that can do no more. 5 But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear the One who, after you have been killed, has authority to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear Him! So we are to fear Him who, after your body has been killed, has authority to throw you into hell in CONTRAST to those who kill the body and after that can do no more.

The Lord is not saying here that He will throw His saints/the righteous into hell. Instead, we read that His saints are preserved forever (Psalm 37:28) and the righteous will go into eternal life. (Matthew 25:46)

I certainly had a fear of hell when I came to realize that I was a sinner who was on his way to hell and could not save myself. (Romans 3:23; 6:23) As would anyone who came to the same realization, prior to choosing to repent and believe the gospel.

As Paul talked about righteousness, self-control and the judgment to come, Felix was afraid and said, “That’s enough for now! You may leave. When I find it convenient, I will send for you.” Verse 26 At the same time he was hoping that Paul would offer him a bribe, so he sent for him frequently and talked with him. Felix may have trembled at the words spoken by Paul, but that was it. Many may tremble at the word of God, yet are not changed by it. Many may be afraid of the consequences of sin, yet continue in the love and practice of sin instead of repenting and believing the gospel.

I don't see any scriptures that contradict (Psalm 37:28; John 5:24; 6:37; 10:27-29; Romans 8:30; 1 Corinthians 1:8; Ephesians 1:13-14; 4:40; Philippians 1:6 etc..). What's not to cherish about eternal security of the believer in Christ? Do you instead prefer to cherish fear and bondage to IN-security? Can you show me just one verse in the Bible that specifically says, "lose or lost salvation?" I've noticed that ALL false religions and cults teach salvation by works AND strongly oppose OSAS, which has always been a red flag for me and I've noticed that even professing believers who subscribe to NOSAS are quick to join hands with them and sing, "kumbaya" in unity over believing in NOSAS and attacking OSAS believers, which is truly something to behold.

Proverbs 14:6

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Proverbs 1:7 - The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge, but fools despise wisdom and instruction. Departing from evil/cleansing ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit/perfecting holiness in the fear of God is absolutely what the body of Christ is to strive for, yet someone may try to abuse these verses by saying anything short of sinless perfection means that we will not be saved and/or lose salvation. I've heard that argument before using these verses from 'sinless perfectionists.'

while I agree, We can and should study all of scripture. There is so much there to learn about Christ.

We should not use the law to show us how to live, Thats where we get into trouble. Trying to live by Law. Which was never designed to show us how to live.

But that doesn't mean we don't have to be willing, deciding, or choosing.
It simply means all your willingness and choosing and deciding isn't what saves you.

"16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness" - 1 Timothy 3:16

Everybody who is believing is secure in Christ.
That's why you should continue to do that.

Not all of them.
Some teach osas.
Like the Freegrace churches.

When are you going to start calling out the Freegrace religion?

I have continued to believe for over 20 years now. Praise the Lord! It’s not an extremely difficult burden to continue to believe. It all comes down to whether or not faith was firmly rooted and established in the first place.

They teach salvation by works AND OSAS together?

What is your definition of Freegrace religion?

Prov 22:6 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

I was once in a conversation with a Seventh Day Adventist who continually stressed, Gospel of the "Kingdom" and made sure that he always capitalized "Gospel" and he spent most of his time in the Old Testament and the 4 gospel accounts, yet had nothing to say about (Acts 15:7; Romans 1:16; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4; Galatians 1:11-12; Ephesians 1:13, 3:1-9 etc..).

According to him, the Gospel is Jesus and Jesus is the word of God and we are to believe in and live by every word of it, which implies works salvation. It was no coincidence that the "Gospel" this Seventh Day Adventist promoted, culminated in "salvation by grace plus law, faith plus works." (Galatians 1:6-9) It was him who made this statement below:

The counterfeit Gospel is out there. What is the other Gospel? It is a Gospel that tries to separate God's Law (10 commandments) from the Cross. It is a Gospel that tries to separate God's 10 commandments from the plan of salvation. God’s Law has always been part of the true Gospel of Christ. The counterfeit Gospel does not have it. God's forever Law (the 10 commandments) is the foundation of both the Old and the New Covenant and the very foundation and basis of the true Gospel of Christ.

He causes us to be willing; Psalm 110:3. This continues post conversion; Philippians 2:12-13.

I've already stated this.

So you condemn the Christian Church and Christians in general? So what is the Gospel that the Christian Church teaches that differs from the Gospel that Jesus taught? Are you talking about the Church, the body of Christ, or false religions and cults that "claim" to be Christian?

It is for some.
That's why we should not make light of it, just because it's easy for us.
Empathy is important in this matter of believing.
Some people have battles we know nothing about.

That is right.
Just because the word and believing is more deeply rooted in us doesn't mean it is in others.
Weak faith is not categorically false faith.
It's weak faith, that's all. But faith nonetheless.
Strong and weak are relative terms anyway.
What we consider strong faith in us may prove to be weak compared to someone else.
You know what Paul said...."if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don’t fall!" - 1 Corinthians 10:12
We are to be humble, not arrogant..."you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant" - Romans 11:20.

We have already discussed this numerous times. Faith is either firmly rooted and established and it continues or else it is not firmly rooted and established and it does not continue. Fall doesn't necessarily mean you never get back up (Proverbs 24:16) and Romans 11 is discussing collective ecclesiology and not individual soteriology. No loss of salvation here. - https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/not-by-works.146296/page-6465#post-4178082

A. Disagree.....we are to judge ALL things by the Word of God, especially false dogmas that disregard the truth, makes a mockery of the truth and tramples Jesus and his ETERNALLY GIVEN IRREVOCABLE gift under the feet of ALL that peddle a losable salvation, a salvation that may be forfeit and or a self maintained faith to stay saved.

B. Judas was never saved and then lost it....it is a NON-STARTER and erroneous to attempt to use it to peddle a losable salvation

1. A devil from the beginning
2. Never clean
3. The SON OF PERDITION
4. Chosen for express purpose to sell Jesus out
5. A thief holding the bag