1 Peter 3:19-20 and 1 Peter 4:6 different interpretations.

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May 29, 2018
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#21
1Pet 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

G2784 κηρύσσω kerusso (kee-rïs'-sō) v.
1. to proclaim or announce; to herald (as a public crier).
2. (especially, of the gospel) to proclaim or announce divine truth.
[of uncertain affinity]
KJV: preacher(-er), proclaim, publish

1Pet 4:6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

G2097 εὐαγγελίζω euaggelizo (ev-an-ğe-liy'-zō) v.
1. to bring good news.
2. “evangelize.”
3. (especially) to proclaim the good news of redemption through Jesus (i.e. the gospel).
[from G2095 and G32]
KJV: declare, bring (declare, show) glad (good) tidings, preach (the gospel)

different types of preaching.....

Yeshua Hamashia was not preaching His Gospel in 1 Pet 3:19
Victory!!!!
God Bless!!!
ALL the early church fathers believed most emphatically that Our Lord's soul stripped of its body (which was in the tomb, His spirit having returned to God), descended into Hades (the Abyss) and there having made atonement, He preached to the spirits in prison, the wicked and ignorant dead and the OT saints who had died in faith. Matt 12v40, 27v59,60, Luke 23v43 (with Eccl 12v7), Acts 2v23-32, Rom 10v7, Heb 2v14,15, 1Peter 3v18-20, 4v6.

1) Irenaeus says explicitly that the Lord “descended into the regions beneath the earth, preaching His advent there also, and there mission of sins ready for those who believe in Him,” and he also states that remission of sins was received by, “all who had hopes towards Him, who proclaimed His advent and submitted to His dispensations.” Irenaeus 4.27,2.

2) Justin accused the Jews of mutilating a prophecy of Jeremiah's, which had read, “The Lord God, the Holy One of Israel, remembered those His dead who slept in the dust of the grave, and descended to them to proclaim to them His salvation.”

3) Clement of Alexander preached that the souls of the Heathen as well as Jews benefited from the revelation of Christ to them in Hades. The Jews being in bonds to the burden of the Law, and the Heathen being “those in darkness,” received the proclamation of the truth of the Gospel from Jesus. This proclamation involved the offer of salvation, and the possibility of repentance and forgiveness of all the sins that a man had committed in ignorance, when not clearly knowing God.

4) Origen Clement's pupil, as we have already stated, believed that Jesus preached to the dead. A famous infidel named Celsus was speaking with Origen and ridiculed this widespread belief of the Church, he said, “I suppose Christ, when He failed to persuade the living, went down to Hades to persuade those who live there?” Origen answered him, “Whether it please Celsus or no, we of the Church assert that the soul of our Lord, stripped of its body, did there hold converse with other souls, that were in like manner stripped, that He might there convert those who were capable of instruction, or were otherwise in ways known to Him fit for it.” Origen c. Celsum, 2.43.

5) Tertullian also stated that the belief that Jesus descended into Hades and preached there, had been held in the Church since the days of the apostles, his testimony is of great value since Tertullian censured anything that was new.

6) Cyril of Jerusalem states, in beautiful picturesque language, that: “The holy prophets ran unto Him {Jesus}, and Moses the law giver, and Abraham and Isaac and Jacob; David also and Samuel, and Isaiah and John the Baptist, who bore witness when he asked, Art thou He that should come, or look we for another? All the just were ransomed whom death had devoured, for it behoved the King who had been heralded to become the redeemer of His noble heralds. Then each of the just said, O death where is thy sting? O grave where is thy victory? For the Conqueror hath redeemed us.” Cyril Hieros., Catech. 14.9,10.

7) Athanasius said that more than the Patriarchs and prophets were delivered from Hades, he extended the circle of those who Jesus delivered from Hades through His preaching, “and thinks of the souls of Adam as held fast under sentence of death, and crying to his Lord ever more, and of those who had pleased God, and had been justified by the law of nature, as mourning and crying with Him till the mercy of God revealed to them the mystery of redemption.”
 
Nov 17, 2017
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#22
What do these have to do with Greek grammar?

1Pet 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

G2784 κηρύσσω kerusso (kee-rïs'-sō) v.
1. to proclaim or announce; to herald (as a public crier).
2. (especially, of the gospel) to proclaim or announce divine truth.
[of uncertain affinity]
KJV: preacher(-er), proclaim, publish

1Pet 4:6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

G2097 εὐαγγελίζω euaggelizo (ev-an-ğe-liy'-zō) v.
1. to bring good news.
2. “evangelize.”
3. (especially) to proclaim the good news of redemption through Jesus (i.e. the gospel).
[from G2095 and G32]
KJV: declare, bring (declare, show) glad (good) tidings, preach (the gospel)

different types of preaching.....

The words are not the same....

1) Irenaeus 2) Justin3) Clement of Alexander4) Origen5) Tertullian 6) Cyril of Jerusalem7) Athanasius

Do know any of them, Not to be rude, dont care. They all died and none got up....
I know Christ Yeshua....

God Bless
 
May 29, 2018
577
19
18
#23
What do these have to do with Greek grammar?

1Pet 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

G2784 κηρύσσω kerusso (kee-rïs'-sō) v.
1. to proclaim or announce; to herald (as a public crier).
2. (especially, of the gospel) to proclaim or announce divine truth.
[of uncertain affinity]
KJV: preacher(-er), proclaim, publish

1Pet 4:6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

G2097 εὐαγγελίζω euaggelizo (ev-an-ğe-liy'-zō) v.
1. to bring good news.
2. “evangelize.”
3. (especially) to proclaim the good news of redemption through Jesus (i.e. the gospel).
[from G2095 and G32]
KJV: declare, bring (declare, show) glad (good) tidings, preach (the gospel)

different types of preaching.....

The words are not the same....

1) Irenaeus 2) Justin3) Clement of Alexander4) Origen5) Tertullian 6) Cyril of Jerusalem7) Athanasius

Do know any of them, Not to be rude, dont care. They all died and none got up....
I know Christ Yeshua....

God Bless
I more trust than the early writings of early fathers.
Can you show to me any early writings of what you believe?
 
Nov 17, 2017
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#26
Are the early writings of Trinitararians biblical? What do you think?
Trinitarians(?) Who are you referring to specifically?

Polycarp, Tertullian, etc.
or
Moses, King David, etc.

Ill choose the latter......

God Bless....
 
Nov 17, 2017
595
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#28
Polycarp, Tertullian, etc...
Biblical, none.
Its their commentary..as in any other, outside of the 66 books, there may be truths on all parts not to discredit
them...who am I...

Scripture is not private interpretation, though ..Like 1 peter 3:19 or any other verse..
Maybe try the word study of the entire verse in context.....?

Trust the Lord, the Greek is precise, Hebrew is picturesque..

God Bless...
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
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#29
Yes I agree there will be a general resurrection for the Saints in the last days, but why during the resurrection of Christ there were resurrected saints together with Him? See Matthew 27:52-53.

Why? I would think it opened the ressurection gate. It will be closed on the last day

The old testament saints fell asleep in the hope of the renting of the veil the glory revealed spoken of in 1 Peter 1 . The gospel through shadows.

We have no waiting period .To be absent of the body shows we have been present in the Lord , who lives in these bodies of death .Temples not made with human hands.

Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory: Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.1 Peter 1 :8-11
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
#30
Not exactly. There is no judgment of the saints, so that resurrection is for the *unjust* (the unsaved)

Those OT saints who were in Sheol/Hades were not resurrected, but their souls and spirits were taken to Heaven to be in the New Jerusalem (Heb 12:22-24) and will come with Christ at the Resurrection/Rapture to received immortal glorified bodies (1 Thess 4 and 1 Cor 15).
I se that a little differently.

Its appointed for all men to die once. This is because they are under the judgment of letter of the law death . On the last day death in respect to the letter of the law it power will be cast into the fiery judgement . That law of judgment as it is written will never rise again and condemn through corruption, dying, another entire creation .

There will be no double Jeopardy . The wage death was set in the garden .

Some say men will be given a spirit to rise and be judged again .

I am reminded of the Pope Formosa's Cadaver Synod trial (punishing bones).They would seem to think dead bones are cast into the fire not the letter of the law death and the the cause the letter of the law death.

The dead in Adam know nothing their flesh has returned to the dust and their temporal spirit that was subject to the letter. That spirit returns to the father. Dead spiritless bones have no power to rise,

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
588
113
#31
ALL the early church fathers believed most emphatically that Our Lord's soul stripped of its body (which was in the tomb, His spirit having returned to God), descended into Hades (the Abyss) and there having made atonement, He preached to the spirits in prison, the wicked and ignorant dead and the OT saints who had died in faith. Matt 12v40, 27v59,60, Luke 23v43 (with Eccl 12v7), Acts 2v23-32, Rom 10v7, Heb 2v14,15, 1Peter 3v18-20, 4v6.

1) Irenaeus says explicitly that the Lord “descended into the regions beneath the earth, preaching His advent there also, and there mission of sins ready for those who believe in Him,” and he also states that remission of sins was received by, “all who had hopes towards Him, who proclaimed His advent and submitted to His dispensations.” Irenaeus 4.27,2.

2) Justin accused the Jews of mutilating a prophecy of Jeremiah's, which had read, “The Lord God, the Holy One of Israel, remembered those His dead who slept in the dust of the grave, and descended to them to proclaim to them His salvation.”

3) Clement of Alexander preached that the souls of the Heathen as well as Jews benefited from the revelation of Christ to them in Hades. The Jews being in bonds to the burden of the Law, and the Heathen being “those in darkness,” received the proclamation of the truth of the Gospel from Jesus. This proclamation involved the offer of salvation, and the possibility of repentance and forgiveness of all the sins that a man had committed in ignorance, when not clearly knowing God.

4) Origen Clement's pupil, as we have already stated, believed that Jesus preached to the dead. A famous infidel named Celsus was speaking with Origen and ridiculed this widespread belief of the Church, he said, “I suppose Christ, when He failed to persuade the living, went down to Hades to persuade those who live there?” Origen answered him, “Whether it please Celsus or no, we of the Church assert that the soul of our Lord, stripped of its body, did there hold converse with other souls, that were in like manner stripped, that He might there convert those who were capable of instruction, or were otherwise in ways known to Him fit for it.” Origen c. Celsum, 2.43.

5) Tertullian also stated that the belief that Jesus descended into Hades and preached there, had been held in the Church since the days of the apostles, his testimony is of great value since Tertullian censured anything that was new.

6) Cyril of Jerusalem states, in beautiful picturesque language, that: “The holy prophets ran unto Him {Jesus}, and Moses the law giver, and Abraham and Isaac and Jacob; David also and Samuel, and Isaiah and John the Baptist, who bore witness when he asked, Art thou He that should come, or look we for another? All the just were ransomed whom death had devoured, for it behoved the King who had been heralded to become the redeemer of His noble heralds. Then each of the just said, O death where is thy sting? O grave where is thy victory? For the Conqueror hath redeemed us.” Cyril Hieros., Catech. 14.9,10.

7) Athanasius said that more than the Patriarchs and prophets were delivered from Hades, he extended the circle of those who Jesus delivered from Hades through His preaching, “and thinks of the souls of Adam as held fast under sentence of death, and crying to his Lord ever more, and of those who had pleased God, and had been justified by the law of nature, as mourning and crying with Him till the mercy of God revealed to them the mystery of redemption.”
Please explain this statement....which I highlighted in your above post.

I am confused by it.

Further, I don´t believe the Church fathers did emphatically believe this exactly as you have written it...
 
S

Scribe

Guest
#32
I do not know... Yet! :unsure:
 
S

Scribe

Guest
#33
As to 1 Peter 3:19-22

I do not know... Yet! :unsure:

However, Following the rule of context, which is about the death and resurrection of Christ the more natural interpretation would be that of what Christ did after he died and before the resurrection. Even the figure of baptism is explained to be the death and resurrection of Christ and our identity with that, which again gives creedance to the idea of Christ loosing of the righteous sons of god who died before the others fell away by marrying the ungodly until only Noah was left. This is a guess, but I think it as good a guess as any and better than some.

18For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 20Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. 21The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: 22Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.

As to 1 Peter 4:6 I also don't know.. Yet! However, it could be referring to those Christians who had died in faith in Peter's lifetime that received the gospel when they were alive but had been killed since then. I suppose it might also be a reference to what he had previously said in chapter 3. I will need to give that more thought.

. 6For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
588
113
#36
Just Truth, Please include Peter 3:18 next time. In this way, you would not have stated that His body was in the tomb and His Spirit went back to GOD...

Peter 3:18 -3:19

For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
588
113
#37
QUickened by the Spirit BY WHICH (also) HE went and preached unto the spirits in Prison...


By THE SPIRIT...His Spirit did NOT return to GOD because it is by THE SPIRIT HE went to preach to the spirits in prison..and it is by that same SPIRIT, after three days, that HIS body which lay in the tomb was raised up again...
 
May 29, 2018
577
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#38
Iḿ sorry, I don´t open up attachments. The words I highlighted in your post, are they your words...or someone from this attachment which you have just posted?
Not my words, from the attachment I posted.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
10,214
1,980
113
#39
Here's something I posted some time back, on that 1 Peter 3 passage:


[quoting Gaebelein on 1 Peter 3]

"The chief question is: Did our Lord go to Hades in a disembodied state? In fact, all depends on the question of what is the true meaning of the sentence, “quickened by the Spirit.” Now, according to the interpretations of the men who teach that the Lord visited Hades, the spirits in prison, during the interval between His death and the morning of the third day, He descended into these regions while His dead body was still in the grave. Therefore, these teachers claim that His human spirit was quickened, which necessitates that the spirit which the dying Christ commended into the Father’s hands had also died. This is not only incorrect doctrine, but it is an unsound and evil doctrine. Was the holy humanity of our Lord, body, soul and spirit dead? A thousands times No! Only His body died; that is the only part of Him which could die. The text makes this clear: “He was put to death in flesh,” that is, His body. There could be no quickening of His spirit, for His spirit was alive. Furthermore, the word quickening, as we learn from Ephesians 1:20 and Ephesians 2:5-6, by comparing the two passages, applies to His physical resurrection, it is the quickening of His body. To teach that the Lord Jesus was made alive before His resurrection is unscriptural. The “quickened by the Spirit” means the raising up of His body. His human spirit needed no quickening; it was His body and only His body. And the Spirit who did the quickening is not His own spirit, that is, His human spirit, but the Holy Spirit. Romans 8:11 speaks of the Spirit as raising Jesus from among the dead.

"We have shown that it was an impossibility that Christ was in any way quickened while His body was not yet raised, hence a visit to Hades is positively excluded between His death and resurrection. There is only another alternative. If it is true that He descended into these regions, then it must have been after His resurrection. But that is equally untenable. The so-called “Apostle’s Creed” puts the descent between His death and resurrection and all the other theorists follow this view. We have shown what the passage does not mean. It cannot mean a visit of the disembodied Christ to Hades, for it speaks of the quickening by the Spirit, and that means His physical resurrection.

"What, then, does the passage mean? It is very simple after all. He preached by the Spirit, or in the Spirit, that is, the same Spirit who raised Him from among the dead, the Holy Spirit of life and power, to the spirits who are now in prison. But when the preaching occurred they were not in prison. And who were they? All the wicked dead for 4,000 years? The text makes it clear that they are a special class of people. They were living in the days of Noah. It is incomprehensible how some of these teachers, misinterpreting this passage, can teach that it includes all the lost, or angels which fell, or the righteous dead. The Spirit of God preached to them, that is, the Spirit who quickened the body of Christ, the same Spirit preached to the generation of unbelievers in the days of Noah. The time of the preaching, then, did not occur between the death and resurrection of Christ, but it took place in Noah’s day. Christ was not personally, or corporeally present, just as He is not present in person in this age when the gospel is preached; His Spirit is here.

"So was He present by His Spirit in the days of Noah. It is written: “My Spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh; yet his days shall be one hundred and twenty years” (Genesis 6:3). His Spirit was then on the earth. In long-suffering God was waiting for one hundred and twenty years while the ark was preparing. His Spirit preached then. But He needed an instrument. The instrument was Noah; in him was the Spirit of Christ and as the preacher of righteousness (2Peter 2:5) he delivered the warning message of an impending judgment to those about him, who did not heed the message, passed on in disobedience, were swept away by the deluge and are now the spirits in prison. As the Spirit of Christ was in the prophets (1Peter 1:11) testifying beforehand of the suffering of Christ and the glory that should follow, so the Spirit of Christ preached through Noah. This is the meaning of this passage, and any other is faulty and unscriptural."

-- https://biblehub.com/commentaries/gaebelein/1_peter/3.htm

[end quoting; bold and underline mine]