My take on water baptism...
- Thread starter Peterlag
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
You are talking about the remnant of Israel being saved, which was stated in Romans 11
1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
Romans 11:25 made the nation's blindness clear right? You have an alternative interpretation of that verse?
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
Romans 11:25 made the nation's blindness clear right? You have an alternative interpretation of that verse?
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
-
1
- Show all
We were discussing water baptism, and I am trying to tell you that water baptism was a necessary requirement for Israel's program.
Without understanding how Israel has fallen in Acts and the rise of the gentiles thru that fall (Romans 11:11), it will be hard for you to understand why I see water baptism is no longer a requirement now.
But I do understand it may be hard for you to discuss with me in a constructive manner without personal remarks, after the history of our exchange in the CS1 thread previously.
Without understanding how Israel has fallen in Acts and the rise of the gentiles thru that fall (Romans 11:11), it will be hard for you to understand why I see water baptism is no longer a requirement now.
But I do understand it may be hard for you to discuss with me in a constructive manner without personal remarks, after the history of our exchange in the CS1 thread previously.
The 4 Gospels are still the OT since Jesus has not died yet. Only after Jesus arrived on Earth for Israel, then water baptism became a requirement since the Kingdom was at hand for all Israel.
After Israel put him on the cross, they were given a one year extension to accept him as their Messiah (Luke 13:9-6), so early Acts was still Judaism.
After Israel put him on the cross, they were given a one year extension to accept him as their Messiah (Luke 13:9-6), so early Acts was still Judaism.
I fully insist that the Bible be THE final in following Christ...not man made denominations or teachings can garner my attention.
In this case he is just wrong. End time prophecy validated...."in the end times great (not small) deceptions will abound"....OSAS, Hyper Grace, Universalism, etc...all new age religion teachings.
As someone on here said a few months ago...all new age religion teachings since the 1960's. No record of them being mentioned before that time frame. Coalesced....most all of the new age bibles have been written and published since that time frame also.
What a coincidence just as this society went through a major moral and civil decay process which has continued this day.
I don't think you are stupid.... please don't engage in asking stupid questions....
You know what he means.
God had specific rules and regulations that were for the Jews, and a sign of their covenant, which was circumcision. This is why baptism is compared to circumcision... it is a sign of our covenant (the NEW covenant) with God, as his chosen people. It doesn't matter if it is a Jew who becomes a Christian, or a gentile who becomes a Christian.... ALL Christians are under the new covenant, and our sign of the covenant is baptism. It is essential to Christians, just as circumcision was important to the Jews, before Jesus came.
You know what he means.
God had specific rules and regulations that were for the Jews, and a sign of their covenant, which was circumcision. This is why baptism is compared to circumcision... it is a sign of our covenant (the NEW covenant) with God, as his chosen people. It doesn't matter if it is a Jew who becomes a Christian, or a gentile who becomes a Christian.... ALL Christians are under the new covenant, and our sign of the covenant is baptism. It is essential to Christians, just as circumcision was important to the Jews, before Jesus came.
-
1
- Show all
I was just trying to point out the implications of his belief that "God and His word does not change" and showed that he don't really believe in that.
As for your 2nd point about the new covenant, if you are willing to understand Hebrews 8:8 as it is literally written, this is what you will conclude
For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
1) The new covenant promised by God is not here yet, it will be made in the future, in the age to come, when Israel as a nation finally accepts Jesus as their Messiah.
2) And even then, it will be made with the nation Israel, and not the Body of Christ.
As for your 2nd point about the new covenant, if you are willing to understand Hebrews 8:8 as it is literally written, this is what you will conclude
For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
1) The new covenant promised by God is not here yet, it will be made in the future, in the age to come, when Israel as a nation finally accepts Jesus as their Messiah.
2) And even then, it will be made with the nation Israel, and not the Body of Christ.
If you enjoy Andy Stanley then you do have a very serious problem, since he promotes false doctrines.
The Dangerous False Teaching of Andy Stanley
www.deliveredbygrace.com/the-dangerous-false-teaching-of-andy-stanley/
In fact, proclaiming the truth of God's Word actually elevates and exalts Him! AndyStanley is guilty of placing himself above God by teaching that Christians should separate themselves from the Bible. Stanley is the one guilty of blocking lost souls from Jesus and eternal life by teaching a false gospel.
The Andy Stanley Cornucopia of False Teaching, Fast ...
www.piratechristian.com/messedupchurch/2016/8/the-andy-stanley-cornucopia-of-false-teaching-postmodern-ambiguity-fast-talking
The Andy Stanley Cornucopia of False Teaching, Fast Talking & Postmodern Ambiguity September 22, 2016 / Steven Kozar Andy Stanley is one of America's top pastors; he is probably one of the top three most influential pastors in the U.S.A. today.
» Andy Stanley is a false teacher - Part I - Culture Warrior
https://www.culturewarrior.net/2018/11/30/andy-stanley-is-a-false-teacher-part-i/
This is blatant false teaching of the highest magnitude and fails on a number of levels. Donald Stamps explains why Stanley's teaching about the Old Testament is false. • In both the Old and New Testaments, keeping God's commands was a matter of trusting him, taking him as his word and loving him…
WATCH: Keith Darrell Dismantles Andy Stanley's False ...
https://blackchristiannews.com/2019...ian-faith-and-calls-his-preaching-anti-chris/
He said he was a volunteer, and so as the Bible said, or as Andy Stanley would say, Paul said in Galatians 2:4, "false brethren unawares [were] brought in", and as Peter said in 1 Peter 2:1, "there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be falseteachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even ...
Crisis at Andy Stanley's North Point Church - Berean Research
https://bereanresearch.org/crisis-andy-stanleys-north-point-church/
Exposing false teachers is not 'casting the first stone'. Warning others of heretics likeAndy Stanley is what we should do. Christ himself warned about the wolves. Point 2- Christ had the harshest of words for who? The 'religious' of his day. The Pharisees treatment of Christ has not one thing to do with exposing wolves.
Ken Ham Calls Andy Stanley a 'False Teacher'
https://www.christianheadlines.com/...n-ham-calls-andy-stanley-a-false-teacher.html
Ken Ham Calls Andy Stanley a 'False Teacher' by - Christian breaking news commentary. Answers in Genesis founder and president Ken Ham is calling Georgia pastor AndyStanley a "false teacher" for comments Stanley made in a recent sermon on the connection between Christianity and the Old Testament.
Apostate False Teacher Andy Stanley: 10 Commandments Don't ...
https://freedomoutpost.com/apostate...ley-10-commandments-dont-apply-to-christians/
If Stanley chucks the law, then he has no basis for calling sinners to repentance, because sin is transgressing God's law (1 John 3:4). Now, let's think about what Stanley wrote with regards to Jesus' commandment. Jesus was teaching them to love each other the way He loved them, in spite of their sin.
Top Ten False Teachers You'll Find in Evangelical Churches
https://reformationcharlotte.org/2019/03/26/false-teachers-evangelical-churches/
False teachers are everywhere — they're a dime a dozen. The Bible tells us that in the last days, many false prophets will arise and mislead many (Matthew 24:11), and we see this taking place right before our eyes. In fact, you can hardly swing a dead cat without hitting a false teacher. Just turn on TBN, you'll see endless amounts of them.
The dangerous new teachings of Andy Stanley. | Hillsong ...
https://hillsongchurchwatch.com/2015/02/20/the-dangerous-new-teachings-of-andy-stanley/
(EDIT 21/02/2015: Added new Andy Stanley's sermon review which was published on FFtF on the 16/02/2015 .) Chris Rosebrough has sounded the alarm for Christians to watch out for Andy Stanley's latest dangerous teachings. It appears that these newteachings from Stanley will be steering the dangerous Seeker Sensitive "Church" movement into greater apostasy.
Andy Stanley Bio - Affair, Divorce, Net Worth, Ethnicity ...
https://marriedbiography.com/andy-stanley-biography/
Andy Stanley was born on May 16, 1958, in Atlanta, Georgia, the United States to CharlesStanley, and Anna J. Stanley. His father is also a senior pastor. Andy grew up with his family in Georgia. Andy completed his graduation in journalism from Georgia State University. Later, he enrolled at Dallas Theological Seminary and gained his master's ...
More Results
The Dangerous False Teaching of Andy Stanley
In fact, proclaiming the truth of God's Word actually elevates and exalts Him! AndyStanley is guilty of placing himself above God by teaching that Christians should separate themselves from the Bible. Stanley is the one guilty of blocking lost souls from Jesus and eternal life by teaching a false gospel.
The Andy Stanley Cornucopia of False Teaching, Fast ...
The Andy Stanley Cornucopia of False Teaching, Fast Talking & Postmodern Ambiguity September 22, 2016 / Steven Kozar Andy Stanley is one of America's top pastors; he is probably one of the top three most influential pastors in the U.S.A. today.
» Andy Stanley is a false teacher - Part I - Culture Warrior
This is blatant false teaching of the highest magnitude and fails on a number of levels. Donald Stamps explains why Stanley's teaching about the Old Testament is false. • In both the Old and New Testaments, keeping God's commands was a matter of trusting him, taking him as his word and loving him…
WATCH: Keith Darrell Dismantles Andy Stanley's False ...
He said he was a volunteer, and so as the Bible said, or as Andy Stanley would say, Paul said in Galatians 2:4, "false brethren unawares [were] brought in", and as Peter said in 1 Peter 2:1, "there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be falseteachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even ...
Crisis at Andy Stanley's North Point Church - Berean Research
Exposing false teachers is not 'casting the first stone'. Warning others of heretics likeAndy Stanley is what we should do. Christ himself warned about the wolves. Point 2- Christ had the harshest of words for who? The 'religious' of his day. The Pharisees treatment of Christ has not one thing to do with exposing wolves.
Ken Ham Calls Andy Stanley a 'False Teacher'
Ken Ham Calls Andy Stanley a 'False Teacher' by - Christian breaking news commentary. Answers in Genesis founder and president Ken Ham is calling Georgia pastor AndyStanley a "false teacher" for comments Stanley made in a recent sermon on the connection between Christianity and the Old Testament.
Apostate False Teacher Andy Stanley: 10 Commandments Don't ...
If Stanley chucks the law, then he has no basis for calling sinners to repentance, because sin is transgressing God's law (1 John 3:4). Now, let's think about what Stanley wrote with regards to Jesus' commandment. Jesus was teaching them to love each other the way He loved them, in spite of their sin.
Top Ten False Teachers You'll Find in Evangelical Churches
False teachers are everywhere — they're a dime a dozen. The Bible tells us that in the last days, many false prophets will arise and mislead many (Matthew 24:11), and we see this taking place right before our eyes. In fact, you can hardly swing a dead cat without hitting a false teacher. Just turn on TBN, you'll see endless amounts of them.
The dangerous new teachings of Andy Stanley. | Hillsong ...
(EDIT 21/02/2015: Added new Andy Stanley's sermon review which was published on FFtF on the 16/02/2015 .) Chris Rosebrough has sounded the alarm for Christians to watch out for Andy Stanley's latest dangerous teachings. It appears that these newteachings from Stanley will be steering the dangerous Seeker Sensitive "Church" movement into greater apostasy.
Andy Stanley Bio - Affair, Divorce, Net Worth, Ethnicity ...
Andy Stanley was born on May 16, 1958, in Atlanta, Georgia, the United States to CharlesStanley, and Anna J. Stanley. His father is also a senior pastor. Andy grew up with his family in Georgia. Andy completed his graduation in journalism from Georgia State University. Later, he enrolled at Dallas Theological Seminary and gained his master's ...
More Results
- X
-
1
- Show all
Well I am sure there will be the critics of him on the Internet, so it really depends on what doctrine you already hold.
For me, the way he teaches how the OT and the NT connected has really enlightened me.
I now understand better, after Andy Stanley's presentation, what the nation Israel was expecting from their promised Messiah when he arrived on Earth, what Zechariah was really saying in Luke 1.
For us former Gentiles who grew up reading Paul's epistles, it can be very difficult for us to put ourselves in the shoes of Jews during the time of Jesus's earthly ministry.
None of the Jews then were expecting their Messiah to die for their sins. They had no expectations of heaven, and certainly weren't thinking of going to heaven when they die.
They were looking forward to Jesus bringing to kingdom of heaven down to earth, and saving them from Roman rule, whom they hated.
Luke 1 had Zacharias declaring what the Jews were expecting from their promised Messiah.
67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying,
68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,
69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;
70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:
71 That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;
72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;
73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,
74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,
75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.
It was said that, before Jesus was born, during the 400 so years of silence after Malachi, the Roman great general Pompey actually entered their temple's holy of holies, curious to see what their image of God was like. That must rank as one of the big insults to Israel.
So to them, Jesus being sent to them as their promised King, to deliver them from Roman rule, was THE GOSPEL
And that gospel is called the gospel of the kingdom.
For me, the way he teaches how the OT and the NT connected has really enlightened me.
I now understand better, after Andy Stanley's presentation, what the nation Israel was expecting from their promised Messiah when he arrived on Earth, what Zechariah was really saying in Luke 1.
For us former Gentiles who grew up reading Paul's epistles, it can be very difficult for us to put ourselves in the shoes of Jews during the time of Jesus's earthly ministry.
None of the Jews then were expecting their Messiah to die for their sins. They had no expectations of heaven, and certainly weren't thinking of going to heaven when they die.
They were looking forward to Jesus bringing to kingdom of heaven down to earth, and saving them from Roman rule, whom they hated.
Luke 1 had Zacharias declaring what the Jews were expecting from their promised Messiah.
67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying,
68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,
69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;
70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:
71 That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;
72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;
73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,
74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,
75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.
It was said that, before Jesus was born, during the 400 so years of silence after Malachi, the Roman great general Pompey actually entered their temple's holy of holies, curious to see what their image of God was like. That must rank as one of the big insults to Israel.
So to them, Jesus being sent to them as their promised King, to deliver them from Roman rule, was THE GOSPEL
And that gospel is called the gospel of the kingdom.