Jesus was not only GOD but the GOD-MAN.

Simply put, these verses are not teaching what you are having them to teach, they must be studied within the context. Sometimes the context is a few verses together and sometimes it is chapters long.

Observers are those who walk or have a understanding after the the temporal corrupted things seen, and not the eternal things of faith, those of God not seen .

Thomas having been filled with the Spirit he was moved to give glory to the unseen God.

Hi jcollins, I appreciate your posts .. Why did God not redeem Adam in the garden ? And what would it take to restore/redeem him/all man ?

Most of the time christ referenced the scripture it was directed at those who professed it.

An echo of my sentiments exactly. To accept life as a gift, with its trouble and pains frees me up to consider the unnecessary suffering of lifes shortcomings created by everyones oppression and the entropy of moral decay and social fabric rending brought about by the enemy unnamed. Meaningless, says the teacher...

I find it difficult to believe A&E sinned in the garden. If God does not change and christ was sent flawless, yet was condemned, then maybe Adam was flawless, yet condemned by the world. Compassion is probably the motivation behind what they did, despite what i know is said in the bible. just a quick stab at the idea that all men die "in adam" since he came straight from God with a corrupted morality/logic/fellowship to poison the well; enoch.. there goes that notion, along with the notion of childbirth on earth being enough grounds for denial of membership in heaven as is suggested in revalation 14 4, As enoch was the father of methuselah.

The idea of redeeming man is either; we have to see christ slain to restore us... again, or we finish the work for which we are called. Address the oppression of everyman and quickly.

Where is that in Scripture?


Where is that in Scripture?

Thomas said those words to Jesus, and about Jesus. Jesus did not correct him. Your assertion is baseless.

Yours is faithless. no faith. The opposite of faithful believing . Not doubting as wondering.

I base my on the faith in a hope of being revealed by God scripture.

Thomas the doubter. Doubting is not believing called exercising ,working out faith as God with with us. . Thomas was given a object lesson on how to mix faith.. . hearing of the gospel .The will that worked in Thomas. Put your hand in the temporal and believe by the eternal power of God working with you . The commandment. Be not faithless (no faith) but believe.

All that is needed is the right prescription (above) in order to rightly divide the parables. No rightfully dividing the meaning of the parable. It is hid and the doubting takes over the wondering the seeking after of the self-edifiers begins.

Adam was created flawless, formed fully mature but not God or begotten of God and God still cared for him .. No record of Enoch or Elijah's death, yet, that we are told .. We are told that two witnesses will appear to die then be raised up before the End .. Jesus, God in the flesh, was transfigured then returned to His normal state a week or so before His death on the cross and many have been raised from the dead then died later and many OT Saints burst out of their graves and were seen walking the streets of Jerusalem at Jesus death on the cross.. But no one ceases to exist .. And God supplies as needed ..

Because we walk by faith and not after what the eyes see the temporal we can understand the two witnesses of God that make one witness . is the law and prophets likened by Moses the law giver and Elias the unseen power of the law of faith . Not Enoch and Alias.

Moses represent the letter of the law "death" It will not enter the promise land again typified by Moses. . The word of God the gospel will be silenced or killed for a short while, no new faith during that period. .



The vison that worked in the mind of Peter was not mixed with faith Peter took it as literal . The father introduce the son surrounded by the two witnesses of His word . The law and the prophets . Hear ye Him who dwells in us. not to the flesh as did Peter who denied the faith again and again

Matthew 17:3-5 King James Version (KJV) And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him. Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias. While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.

Luke 16:15-17 King James Version (KJV) And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God. The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it. And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

An echo of my sentiments exactly. To accept life as a gift, with its trouble and pains frees me up to consider the unnecessary suffering of lifes shortcomings created by everyones oppression and the entropy of moral decay and social fabric rending brought about by the enemy unnamed. Meaningless, says the teacher...

I find it difficult to believe A&E sinned in the garden. If God does not change and christ was sent flawless, yet was condemned, then maybe Adam was flawless, yet condemned by the world. Compassion is probably the motivation behind what they did, despite what i know is said in the bible. just a quick stab at the idea that all men die "in adam" since he came straight from God with a corrupted morality/logic/fellowship to poison the well; enoch.. there goes that notion, along with the notion of childbirth on earth being enough grounds for denial of membership in heaven as is suggested in revalation 14 4, As enoch was the father of methuselah.

The idea of redeeming man is either; we have to see christ slain to restore us... again, or we finish the work for which we are called. Address the oppression of everyman and quickly.

And who are the two witnesses in the End Time that lay dead for 3 days

Do you believe in eternal existence conscious existence ?

Again thanks, a most interesting view. Since you are settled on this view, it does me no good really to discuss it further. As my view, of this section of Scripture, did not change your view, I am afraid you have not changed mine either. It is interesting still, But I still maintain that the five who were late, were unsaved.

Adam was created flawless, formed fully mature but not God or begotten of God and God still cared for him .. No record of Enoch or Elijah's death, yet, that we are told .. We are told that two witnesses will appear to die then be raised up before the End .. Jesus, God in the flesh, was transfigured then returned to His normal state a week or so before His death on the cross and many have been raised from the dead then died later and many OT Saints burst out of their graves and were seen walking the streets of Jerusalem at Jesus death on the cross.. But no one ceases to exist .. And God supplies as needed ..

i think He uses both edges of the spiritual sword that proceeds from His mouth at the same time. i have learned that masterful strokes with a sword are those which both parry & riposte simultaneously.



the word justifies the sheep & convicts the goat with a single syllable -- like zwerchau ↑
to the unbelieving, what He says damns, and to the believing, it saves. the same word that is to us the power of God is to the world, incomprehensible. so how does one measure direction?

Do you believe in eternal existence conscious existence ?

The law and the prophets (gospel) it will be silenced .They are the two witnesses together as the one perfect law.